Book 2 - Text Updates 053

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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby drachefly » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:33 am

If capital sites each had a portal, that seems like a movement exploit for casters.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Baron Daguerre » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:45 am

It's now eleven months since Parson decided to pass through MK to get to the battle. Anyone else starting to wonder if Rob really knows where he's going with this?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Magentawolf » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:08 am

Baron Daguerre wrote:It's now eleven months since Parson decided to pass through MK to get to the battle. Anyone else starting to wonder if Rob really knows where he's going with this?


Do I think he knows where this is going? Sure. I just don't think it'll be reached in my lifetime.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Morni » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:07 pm

Baron Daguerre wrote:It's now eleven months since Parson decided to pass through MK to get to the battle. Anyone else starting to wonder if Rob really knows where he's going with this?


I do think he knows where's he's going. To be what's been slowling the developmenent is the time to create the artwork. That's why Rob started doing Text-Update to keep more stuff to be posted.

I do not know this for a fact, but i don't think Xin gets paid a full time job salary for this. Hence she has to work to pay the bills.

Slow update yes... but AWESOME! results.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:15 pm

Magentawolf wrote:
Baron Daguerre wrote:It's now eleven months since Parson decided to pass through MK to get to the battle. Anyone else starting to wonder if Rob really knows where he's going with this?


Do I think he knows where this is going? Sure. I just don't think it'll be reached in my lifetime.


:lol: Same here. Well, I had my doubts on there being a direction to the story when book 2 started, thirty years ago, but in the decades since, I think the story found a heading.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:48 pm

Rob's target, according to earlier posts, was two comics per week. Obviously, that's not being achieved. Either we'd have to expect an art quality decrease, or just live with the current pace.

As for writing the story... David Eddings targeted 4 pages per day when he was writing the Belgariad while working full time. Writing a story like this could be done in 3 weeks if he were doing this full time, except maybe for hunting down obscure references, which would add some time. We may be getting more references than in Book 1 simply because Rob has a lot more time than he expected.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Dr Pepper » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:06 pm

Well i would expect that something as awful as the Belgariad would be a lot faster to write than something as great as Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Balerion » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:35 pm

Sorry to jump back to the Charlie/GW discussion... and to do so with a wall of text. but it was interesting, and I was without internet while it was happening :P

The underlying assumption here is that Charlie is fighting to keep the Arkentools from being brought together as they are Fated to; either because he knows the dish would be taken from him in the process, or because the results of this Fate are horrifying to him, and he is willing to risk death to prevent it.

The main evidence I offer for this is Charlie's particular brand of paranoia. Assuming from some of text updates that Fate seems to force its path by luck manipulation (all those arrows being blocked), Charlie needs to protect himself from Fate removing him.To accomplish this, Charlie controls every aspect of his territory; the archons are essentially his slaves, and there are no other units capable of thought/free will near the city. He then sets up an economic strategy that makes him both have an absurdly large army, and never directly involves his city in conflict. Fate has no chance to kill him and release his tool to meet with the others, without bringing a giant war to his door (which he actively prevents by being everyone's "friend"). It also gives him an excellent excuse to meddle in most of the world, letting him keep the tools from ever trying to gather.

So with that, my take on the goblin rebellion that got rid of Saline and the timeline it was part of:

-Charlie knows of a side that has one arkentool attuned, and has a caster that is fated to possess another (given the intelligence gathering abilities usually ascribed to him, figuring out Wanda's predicted attunement doesn't seem ridiculous). For his own reasons, Charlie does not want the tools assembled as they are fated to be; this situation is pretty clearly Fate ticking, and starting to gather them, so he needs to put a stop to it.
-Charlie tries to kill off the two tool weilders with the rebellion. It fails, because Fate protected them by having them out of town (same as finding all the dwagons for Stanely when he took out Faq; getting absurdly lucky)
-Stanely inherits, worrying Charlie, but starts wrecking his kingdom pretty thouroughly trying to find the Arkentools (note the battle that was lost in the opening was because there was a gem which was left behind against the Titan's plan). Charlie keeps an eye on things, joining the coalition to crush them when they solicit him, but seeing things working out without his help. He wants Parson so bad because he is a wild card, as Jojo says; with him, he can put off the Fate for a long time to come (or even permanently defeat it), which is why he is willing to risk a unit with free will. But then, Volcano saves the day for GW and dashes that chance.
-At this point, Charlie has learned a lesson. he keeps quiet, doing what he can from the shadows while waiting for his opportunity. He strikes on a day when Fate is uncertain (according to Marie); this is his chance to derail Fate's plan, here comes Kingworld (its unclear whether kingworld is what made the day uncertain or if the day was always a turning point in this theory). But note that he is striking with uncharacteristicly direct force (ie blackmail etc) to try and end Wanda, the tool wielder, then and there. With this rare day when Fate is uncertain, Charlie has a chance to either delay/prevent the gathering of the tools, so he is willing to risk a fair amount.
-Having missed the uncertain day this time (it looks like that window was pretty much right after Kingworld), he has to either make another one when he can, or wait for the next one in order to stop GW. So he will back off for a while and try to move more pieces in place; we know we get one more at least because Charlie didn't go all in yet; he is taking actions which will let him preserve his place in the world in the aftermath, which means he knows he gets more chances. This next strike will be with most of the force he can bring to bear, since it will likely be his last opening (though there may be more depending on how long it will be before the Fated uniting of the tools).

A lot of that is speculation, but I think the ideas of Charlie as fighting both Fate and the uniting of the Arkentools have been well established in the comic itself (or text updates), and that is at the core of most of the guessery.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:08 am

The problem with that is the one major flaw.

Balerion wrote:-Charlie tries to kill off the two tool weilders with the rebellion. It fails, because Fate protected them by having them out of town (same as finding all the dwagons for Stanely when he took out Faq; getting absurdly lucky)


Stanley returned to GK to stomp the rebellion into mush. Had he been present instead of off gallivanting, the rebellion would still have been stomped into mush. It only succeeded because he and Casters were all missing. So, as an attempt to kill Stanley, it was quite a pathetic effort. Charlie likes the "I get paid to win" scenarios, and this wasn't one of them.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Balerion » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:29 am

Kreistor wrote:The problem with that is the one major flaw.

Balerion wrote:-Charlie tries to kill off the two tool weilders with the rebellion. It fails, because Fate protected them by having them out of town (same as finding all the dwagons for Stanely when he took out Faq; getting absurdly lucky)


Stanley returned to GK to stomp the rebellion into mush. Had he been present instead of off gallivanting, the rebellion would still have been stomped into mush. It only succeeded because he and Casters were all missing. So, as an attempt to kill Stanley, it was quite a pathetic effort. Charlie likes the "I get paid to win" scenarios, and this wasn't one of them.


Unless the plan was to whack Wanda as the declaration of rebellion. She is fairly squishy. Or maybe Stanley doesn't sleep with the hammer. Sudden attack generally has a chance to succeed where open battle would fail.

As to this not being how things played out, Charlie seems to have a flaw in that he doesn't give his sub-contractors any more information than the bare bones if he can avoid it (i am basing this on how he set things up with Jillian; she knew enough to make his plan work, but not the motives behind the plan). The goblins may have just rebelled anyone, figuring its even easier to take the city as wanted with everyone gone, not knowing the entire point of the rebellion couldn't be achieved without the guests of honor.

Are there some weak points? sure. But Charlie is not infallible, and given that 1. There is no way this is ever traced back to him and 2. The failure to stop GW from uniting all the tools = dead Charlie, the cost benefit on being a bit riskier seems to be justified.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:08 am

Balerion wrote:Unless the plan was to whack Wanda as the declaration of rebellion. She is fairly squishy. Or maybe Stanley doesn't sleep with the hammer. Sudden attack generally has a chance to succeed where open battle would fail.


The Hobgobwins and Gobwins that rebelled were inside the city. If they knew their job was to kill Wanda and she was gone, they wouldn't have attacked that Turn, but waited for her return. There's no reason to try, when the attempt is impossible and failure means severe punishment.

The goblins may have just rebelled anyone, figuring its even easier to take the city as wanted with everyone gone, not knowing the entire point of the rebellion couldn't be achieved without the guests of honor.


Let's take the City and commit Suicide by Arkenhammer when the Heir comes back! YAY!

No.

Are there some weak points? sure. But Charlie is not infallible


The last thing Charlie is is stupid. Having obtained the allegience of the Gobwins, he would not allow it to be wasted on an attack that would not only fail, but also waste the resource.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Balerion » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:33 am

Kreistor wrote:
Balerion wrote:Unless the plan was to whack Wanda as the declaration of rebellion. She is fairly squishy. Or maybe Stanley doesn't sleep with the hammer. Sudden attack generally has a chance to succeed where open battle would fail.


The Hobgobwins and Gobwins that rebelled were inside the city. If they knew their job was to kill Wanda and she was gone, they wouldn't have attacked that Turn, but waited for her return. There's no reason to try, when the attempt is impossible and failure means severe punishment.

The goblins may have just rebelled anyone, figuring its even easier to take the city as wanted with everyone gone, not knowing the entire point of the rebellion couldn't be achieved without the guests of honor.


Let's take the City and commit Suicide by Arkenhammer when the Heir comes back! YAY!

No.

Are there some weak points? sure. But Charlie is not infallible


The last thing Charlie is is stupid. Having obtained the allegience of the Gobwins, he would not allow it to be wasted on an attack that would not only fail, but also waste the resource.


This feels like you didn't actually read what I was writing. I started off by saying that the goblins WERE NOT TOLD the main reasons for the attacks. Killing Wanda or Stanley by assassination would have been pitched as necessary in order to secure the city. His contract with them was to take the city by surprise on some turn he likely thought they would be present for or somesuch. Then things happened, but the goblin leaders lack instant communication or some other reason Charlie can't stop it, perhaps figuring that stopping it and revealing his motives costs more than losing the goblins in the city. Sunk costs are sunk; its not worth losing more trying to save them often.

As for the suicide by Arkenhammer... if they are ordered to, that is exactly what they will do? Taking city = huge purse from Charlie means the leaders say "enjoy dying for the good of everyone else!" Erfworld seems to embrace the idea of soldiers dying for the good of the leaders fairly strongly :P
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:51 am

Balerion wrote:This feels like you didn't actually read what I was writing. I started off by saying that the goblins WERE NOT TOLD the main reasons for the attacks.


I've given you my feedback. Believe whatever you want.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Kreistor » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:29 am

Infidel wrote:
Oberon wrote:Trapped, how? Either on-turn or off-turn, Parson can move between any two cities with a MK portal. Or just move into the MK to escape death (or capture), similar to the end of Book 1. How about exiting the same way he entered?


I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.


Infidel wins a cookie!
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:53 am

well then new update answers this question.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Akkristor » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:31 pm

The.Healing.Mage wrote:
Akkristor wrote:Can the Decrypted Dwagons dance fight? If so, what would they do, Slam dancing?


You, sir, just won the internet.



After reflecting further on this subject, I have narrowed it down to two possibilities. Slam Dancing, or The Monster Mash.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby sleepymancer » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Akkristor wrote:
The.Healing.Mage wrote:
Akkristor wrote:Can the Decrypted Dwagons dance fight? If so, what would they do, Slam dancing?


You, sir, just won the internet.



After reflecting further on this subject, I have narrowed it down to two possibilities. Slam Dancing, or The Monster Mash.



Electwic Dwagons dance the Volta??


(and those dancing themed reality-'talent'-voting-atrocity-programmes are just the bi-product of Yellow Dwagons)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby drachefly » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:08 pm

Or the electwic slide?

Speaking of which, is there a lightning dwagon?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Housellama » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:21 pm

Akkristor wrote:
The.Healing.Mage wrote:
Akkristor wrote:Can the Decrypted Dwagons dance fight? If so, what would they do, Slam dancing?


You, sir, just won the internet.



After reflecting further on this subject, I have narrowed it down to two possibilities. Slam Dancing, or The Monster Mash.


I'm trying to make a joke about the Yellow Dwagons doing Slim Dancing, but it's really just not working, no matter how many eating disorder references I think up. A waste is a horrible thing to waste. er...

Yeah, this whole post was a stinker.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 053

Postby Housellama » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:23 pm

drachefly wrote:Or the electwic slide?

Speaking of which, is there a lightning dwagon?


Blue Dwagons.
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