Summer Updates - 009

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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Spot » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:27 pm

Doctari wrote:
A side question: Did she, Maggie and Sizemore split the exp from killing the entire army and if so did they level (multiple times I would imagine.)



I'm not sure if Maggie or Wanda leveled, but the Grand Abbie and Sizemore talked about Sizemore having leveled.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby SteveMB » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:28 pm

Doctari wrote:A side question: Did she, Maggie and Sizemore split the exp from killing the entire army and if so did they level (multiple times I would imagine.)

I don't think anybody got exp for that -- you don't get exp if you withdraw from the battlefield (Stanley complained about that when Parson started to explain his hit-and-run tactics, until Parson was able to get a word in and explain what he'd accomplished with them).

We know that Sizemore gained two levels, presumably from being sent into the field earlier in the battle.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Matty » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:30 pm

I'm not surprised at all by Maggie's behavior - she was Parson's right-hand unit through most of TBFGK, relaying messages, giving him energy boosts when he was tired, and just generally being an advisory-type person. She's also expressed gratitude to him, and, even more importantly, profound respect - she has stated she believes his mind is their most formidable weapon, and calls him a great warrior in one of the last pages. Maggie also seems, moreso than even Sizemore or Wanda, to recognize Parson's real genius. This combined with the fact that he's just won a crazy battle probably has her loyalties shifted towards Parson in terms of just his raw leadership ability. However, I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Maggie is aware of Parson's consciousness of the morality of his actions (given their talk at the end of the book about her being only the third biggest monster on the mountain), and credits him with what Ansom would call "the moral fitness to lead."

I think this update just really shows how Stanley is falling back into his old tendancy to "promote the pretty-boy," only this time the pretty-boy actually has leadershp potential. For all his 'growth,' Stanley still gets caught up in the the idea that aesthetics = goodness/prowess. Come to think of it, that's probably why he underappreciates Sizemore and favours Wanda; Sizemore resembles a middle-aged bald man who specializes in and works with crap, while Wanda has the form of a young, attractive woman. The fact that Sizemore's an honest, loveable, sweetheart of a guy, and Wanda's a power-hungry, manipulative woman are completely lost on Stanley since all he looks at is the overt aesthetic quality of other people. That's why I think he's so apt to demote Parson in favour of Ansom - in spite of Parson's incredible skill and cunning, he's not as aethetically pleasing to Stanley's eye.

The single most hopeful thought I can imagine resulting from Parson's demotion is that he and Sizemore will become good friends again. Sizemore seems to already be working hard at trying to be friendly, but I really, really would like them to be true friends again. If Parson does end up defecting, I'd like to think that Sizemore would join him, maybe even Maggie. That would probably be Stanley's downfall - his shortsightedness with regards to these three coming back to bite him in the ass. I think he sees Wanda as his aethetic equal, and is definitely now forced to see her as his fated equal as well, but when it comes to Parson, Maggie, and Sizemore he still daftly underestimates them.

The swear at the end is brilliant! I can't wait to see how Parson's going to break the game...

Edit: Additionally, I'd just like to say that anytime some says something along the lines of "the Titan's have a path for us, but it's not always clear," it always makes me smile to myself - they're such delicious metafictional moments in that the characters themselves are an inch away from realizing that they are actually characters in a story being told by Rob and Jamie - our Titans ;) It's beautiful!
Last edited by Matty on Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby atteSmythe » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:42 pm

Kick ass, Maggie. I've always had a soft spot for her character, and this just endears her to me more.

Something has to happen to put the fight back into Parson. Ansom is no fool, and I suspect that he will frequently seek Parson's counsel as the campaign to retake GK's cities gets underway...but I also have a feeling that Parson's advice will be reluctant and unspectacular. Since his safety is guaranteed, for now, I think he's all too aware of the realities of the war he'd have to lead. Between that and having to deal with an idiot overlord who's likely going to be second-guessing his every decision? Parson just doesn't have the energy for it any more.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby raphfrk » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:48 pm

Doctari wrote:Personally I wouldn't bet on KISS or GK rank and file against Wanda is it ever came to that:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/095.jpg


That wasn't Wanda's power, that was was GK's air defenses.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Spot » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:57 pm

Matty wrote:I'm not surprised at all by Maggie's behavior - she was Parson's right-hand unit through most of TBFGK, relaying messages, giving him energy boosts when he was tired, and just generally being an advisory-type person. She's also expressed gratitude to him, and, even more importantly, profound respect - she has stated she believes his mind is their most formidable weapon, and calls him a great warrior in one of the last pages. Maggie also seems, moreso than even Sizemore or Wanda, to recognize Parson's real genius. This combined with the fact that he's just won a crazy battle probably has her loyalties shifted towards Parson in terms of just his raw leadership ability. However, I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Maggie is aware of Parson's consciousness of the morality of his actions (given their talk at the end of the book about her being only the third biggest monster on the mountain), and credits him with what Ansom would call "the moral fitness to lead."

I think this update just really shows how Stanley is falling back into his old tendancy to "promote the pretty-boy," only this time the pretty-boy actually has leadershp potential. For all his 'growth,' Stanley still gets caught up in the the idea that aesthetics = goodness/prowess. Come to think of it, that's probably why he underappreciates Sizemore and favours Wanda; Sizemore resembles a middle-aged bald man who specializes in and works with crap, while Wanda has the form of a young, attractive woman. The fact that Sizemore's an honest, loveable, sweetheart of a guy, and Wanda's a power-hungry, manipulative woman are completely lost on Stanley since all he looks at is the overt aesthetic quality of other people. That's why I think he's so apt to demote Parson in favour of Ansom - in spite of Parson's incredible skill and cunning, he's not as aethetically pleasing to Stanley's eye.

The single most hopeful thought I can imagine resulting from Parson's demotion is that he and Sizemore will become good friends again. Sizemore seems to already be working hard at trying to be friendly, but I really, really would like them to be true friends again. If Parson does end up defecting, I'd like to think that Sizemore would join him, maybe even Maggie. That would probably be Stanley's downfall - his shortsightedness with regards to these three coming back to bite him in the ass. I think he sees Wanda as his aethetic equal, and is definitely now forced to see her as his fated equal as well, but when it comes to Parson, Maggie, and Sizemore he still daftly underestimates them.

The swear at the end is brilliant! I can't wait to see how Parson's going to break the game...

Edit: Additionally, I'd just like to say that anytime some says something along the lines of "the Titan's have a path for us, but it's not always clear," it always makes me smile to myself - they're such delicious metafictional moments in that the characters themselves are an inch away from realizing that they are actually characters in a story being told by Rob and Jamie ;) It's beautiful!



That's pretty darn insightful, and yeah... Stanley is dumb enough to favor form over substance.

With Ansom, though, there might be an even deeper reason for Stanley's favoring him over Parson: Stanley is pretty darn insecure, and probably feels that having a Royal and a former Prince as his senior warlord conveys status upon him (Stanley)... ...probably as over-compensation on Stanley's part for any feelings of inferiority for having started as a mere Pikeman.

I'm really enjoying the depth of writing and characterization in this comic, by the way... this could just as easily be one of those old-fashioned book thingies with no pictures ;)
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Doctari » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:59 pm

Their air defenses were Wanda's spells as I understood it. She certainly appeared to be casting and the expenditure seemed to drain her quite a bit.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Infidel » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:23 pm

I alluded to it earlier, but no one seems to have picked up on it. So I'll be less indirect.

Duty is Highest in Chief Warlords. Stanley doesn't trust Ansom. Elevating Ansom to chief warlord can be a way of wresting control away from Wanda.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby teratorn » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:26 pm

Doctari wrote:Their air defenses were Wanda's spells as I understood it. She certainly appeared to be casting and the expenditure seemed to drain her quite a bit.


Not really, Bogroll asks if he should get a caster when the flyers arrive, and Parson asks if she just used most of their air defences. I think any caster could have set those.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:41 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Let us assume that a rebellion would happen. Then, who will the conquered cities obey, Stanley who stood in GK mentoring Parson, or Conqueror Ansom the puppet of Wanda?


We don't know how a rebellion would look like, or even if it's possible. The only hint we have seen so far is Stanley's fear of Wand's decrypted. One possibility is, that some cities split and form a new side. Another form could be a "strike" with the troops, ignoring orders or interpreting them very free. Maybe it's possible to force the ruler to commit himself to a magical binding contract with his units. All very speculative and unproven.

By the way, could Ansom be the heir of Gobwin Knob right now? He was ordered as a heir, and he is now a unit of Gobwin Knob. Maybe the "heir quality" survived somehow the decrypting.

I should note that I don't expect a rebellion from Wanda. She is the power behind the throne and can manipulate Stanley too well too bother replacing him. A real leader like Ansom would probably a bigger problem for her. It's only a interesting because Stanley could fear it and act based on that assumption.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby happiest_in_shadows » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:06 pm

I may be way off base here but I wonder if Stanley is secretly scared. It has been speculated that Wanda isn't truly under Stanley's control like the other units as she's officially a captured unit. Now she has one of the tools herself and an army that while technically Stanley's is not carrying his symbol. How can he be sure that the army is loyal to him first and not Wanda?

It could be Stanley's intention to regain control as it were without Wanda realizing it out of fear. In order to do that the first thing he does is put Ansom in charge of the army of dekrypted soldiers and send them out of the city to retake control of former territories. In the mean time while Wanda, Ansom and the majority of the army is out he ask Parson to begin formation of a new army. A secondary smaller force that he believes will be entirely loyal to him.

Effectively a military police unit to insure that his soldiers are indeed his.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby SteveMB » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:24 pm

happiest_in_shadows wrote:I may be way off base here but I wonder if Stanley is secretly scared.

It's been plainly stated that he's worried about how far he can trust Wanda's decrypted army:

He just...didn't know, and didn't trust, what was going on here. What were these troops? They were his, he could see that. He could see their stats. But what was this skull emblem they bore? How did he know for certain they weren't going to tear him apart? No, better to arrive with the most power he could muster, even in his own city, his own courtyard.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby shneekeythelost » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:29 pm

Guys, think for a moment...

Remember, he was talking about the team getting a coconut from the boss when he got back from vacation at his old job.

"Beats the sh*t out of a coconut"... that means he got what he wanted. Like it was a gift, a present.

In short, Parson doesn't WANT to be the Chief Warlord. Why? Several reasons. First, he still wants to get over having blown up thousands of people in a single turn. That, I think, really scared him... that he could actually sign the death sentence to tens of thousands of people, many of whom were still loyal to him. Second... he's not tied down in a war, he can start getting down to business: learning the system backwards and forwards. Learning all the loopholes. Pouring over major battles and the tactics which were used and how they effected combat.

Let Ansom take over those cities, it's easy and straightforward. The Coalition is in shambles, and the sides holding those cities just got curb-stomped. He'll be able to roll all over them all. No problem. Keeps His Toolship happy with new toys every few turns.

And, as has been pointed out... he's no longer the Chief Warlord... so his Duty isn't quite so high anymore.

What Stanley should have done:

"Okay, Da MAN... Lord Hamster himself! Good job, there. Really surprised me. Here's what I want ya to do. Take Wanda and some of these... decrypted or whatever... things... and go start taking my cities back. Shouldn't be too hard, since they just lost most of their units a few turns ago. This gets you some xp, you'll level. Lots. Increase your leadership bonus. Ansom stays here with the rest of the troops in case Trans hires Jerkwad and goes after us here. He's got a higher leadership bonus, and if we get Archons AND Trans inbound, we're gonna need it."

You see, remember the whole "leveling gets more difficult the higher you go" thing? Ansom is at the top of his curve, the odds of getting him to level any further is minuscule. Parson, however, is level 2. That means he can level up really quickly, comparatively speaking. What's better than one warlord with a very high Leadership bonus? Two of 'em.

Plus it keeps Wanda and her Decrypted as far away from him as possible so they can't take him out.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Ragn Charran » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:56 pm

teratorn wrote:I think any caster could have set those.


Agreed, as Maggie did later in the battle (see the laser beam in background of the FuMP panel as Bogroll smacks down a Coalition troop.) Maybe only certain casters can use certain defenses, but I really doubt it. We don't even know activating them was what tired her out, she was still coming off the suggestion spell backlash, and she was then immediately able to perform a high-attention level croakamancy.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Good point, Shneekey.

Re: air defences: I'm betting they were all scrolls, and therefore any caster could cast them.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby badninja » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:21 pm

Wow I hope nothing happens to Maggie I rather like her. I taught this would happen, but I hope the Tool is a good teacher because Parson strikes me as the smarter of the two. Could Parson teach the Tool a lesson or two about tactics?
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby lostknight » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:28 pm

Guys,

Stanley is not the enemy. He is the tool of the enemy - Wanda. People seem to think that Wanda is done being evil manipulative b*tch, but remember that she states that Parson doesn't what know what she did - or will do in the future. The what she did is for the Arkentools. The fact that she seems to think that there are more atrocities in her future indicates that she is not going to be happy - until she seizes whatever destiny the predictamancer predicted.

The only question is who will best fit her agenda? Parson or the Tool. At this point, I am inclined to think that it will be the tool. One way or another Wanda is not going to let the tool live long. Sooner or later one of Wanda's minions - probably Der Prince himself - is going to croak Stanley after Stanley is foolish enough to make himself replaceable. Wanda is the evil. Stanley is just the tool.

It would not surprise me at this point to see Sizemore, Parson, Maggie hook up with Jillian and Vinny and launch a second against all odds battle - this time against Gobwin Knob. I thought the authors were going for a "war to end all wars" approach, but now I think it's going to be more us against the world.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Darkside007 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:40 pm

Right now I don't think Stanley is acting out of idiocy. While he's very much in the Flak/Jugger school of warfare (Break enough shit and win), he's also demonstrated some capacity for intellect. (Like the Eyemancer table and even, yes, cutting out the 'support plan' from the MK.) Stanley is running on fear now. He bailed on the city, and now they've won and are in a better position than they started in. Not only that, but Wanda has an Arkentool, and is not a warlord. The army is one she's built, he believed that only Warlords could get Arkentools, he's got next to nothing of his own left, and everything seems spiralling out of control.

I hope the apology is sincere, but I think most of the rest of it is him trying to establish himself as Ruler of GK. Note he still hasn't left his dwagon yet.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Rosa Vernal » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:57 pm

Uh.

Can anyone give me any good reason why the Tool wouldn't make Parson his heir?
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Sieggy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:08 pm

Actually, I'm wondering if Parson is aware of the fact that he was able to get out one of the banned words rather than going 'boop'. If not, sooner or later, he'll realize it, understanding that the 'boop' rule no longer applies to him. And given his gamer mentality, he'll then begin to wonder what OTHER rules he can break, too. I suspect Ansom will not be happy about this, unless he can rationalize Parson's rule breaking/bending as the 'New Will" of the Titans.
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