Book 2 – Page 70

[CelebrenIthil]

I wonder if it might be possible that the Plier's decrypting powers, while impressive, are not limitless... in the sense that it's ability to sway units' loyalty scores diminishes over uses/amount of units already under control. So, in general, the units decrypted earlier got an almost perfect brainwash, but it's dimishing to regular turnamancy.
Also, maybe it's not a factor of how old the Decrypted are, but rather how willfull they are as a person, and the more Decrypted the Pliers maintain, the harder it is to stretch control over them all. (after all Ansom is swaying too, with all these family matters...)
Older Decrypted have just had more time to grow comfortable with their status so it mainly shows in the most recent ones, who are still taken aback and confused and doubtful over their sudden death, revive and turning. Also, there are more high-ranked units getting turned, and they generally have more personality, intelligence and willpower than the mass of Wanda's army, poor peons who never thought much father than stabbing things.

[Smittaugh]

There's another problem of perception cropping up here on the boards that I think should be discussed. (If I missed the discussion, please forgive me)

A few people have said that if the portal closes, Parson can just walk back to the GK portal. Yeah, no. Right now he's facing a fight of his own. He has limited, untested resources (Janis and Mary) and is facing a united, powerful enemy (Isaac and the Thinkamancers) who themselves are keeping a third enemy at bay (the rest of the MK denizens in portal park). The best thing he has going for him is that the portal to Spacerock is only yards away. He doesn't have to fight for very long, and he's through. If that were to change (and, really, we're all genre savvy enough to know that if it does, it will probably happen at the worst possible time, mid-fight with the Thinkamancers), then it stops being a skirmish and turns into a battle. That gives the Thinkamancers the advantage of time. They can collapse their forces and focus fire, they can let him run and catch him at the other end of the tunnel, but this time with twice the forces, hell, they can walk away and let the other casters take him, then scoop him up later.

My point is, he's not going back to GK. He's either charging through, or he's a captive himself. Boop just got very real for him.

[atalex]

You know, we're very close to the end of Issue #2. People suggest that we learned nothing new with this update, but it occurs to me that it might just be setting up the end of issue cliffhanger. What if the tower falls (but only after Slately et al have taken to the air) and Parson does get stuck in the MK in the hands of the Thinkomancers? Then, Issue #3 will be a straight up fight between the regrouping JS and Wanda's forces which will have to act on their own without the benefit of Parson's genius, while Parson himself is a captive trying to escape and/or reason with the GMTTA.

As for the failure of the GK forces to spot the problem with the portal, I don't have a problem with it. Antium and the Decrypted were basically following orders and failed to understand the importance of Parson getting through. Wanda (Titans bless her) simply doesn't think about strategy at all anymore, relying exclusively on fatalistic pronouncements. Jack plainly admits that he screwed up, which happens to the best of us. (So help me Titans, if somebody starts talking about "the idiot ball" again, I may have an aneurysm.)

Off topic thought: Is is possible that part of Predictomancy is instilling in the subject of a prediction a conviction that the prophecy will come true? Wanda's philosophy obviously is similar to Marie's, and we know that there's a connection between the two.

[Sixty]

I don't think the Parson getting trapped is too crazy for them to overlook for 2 reasons.

1.) Parson should have EASILY made it through by now (and if stopped would probably have been defeated, so the idea of him being ok but just delayed seemed fairly unlikely).

2.) As mentioned before, no one has ever really had to worry about this before except possibly bringing a caster in at the last moment to add a bit of extra punch. Even that is a non-issue as the caster wouldn't be in Parson's situation as no one is gonna stop them from walking back to their own portal (and they are not longer needed so the forces on the other side of the ex-portal won't miss them).

[Kreistor]

Here's an odd bit of speculation: Could the image be of PRINCE Slately? He may have been slightly larger before signamancy made him small to reflect his pettiness...

Since Slately looks like a King from a deck of cards, when he was a Warlord, I would expect him to look like a Jack.

[Lamech]

Parson will be fine. If the portal closes he can just walk back to GK.

{snip}

He's not stranded.

Cool to know that a double dash through the MK is apparently a kosher thing in these forums. But riddle me this, if Parson does get to Spacerock, which falls, wouldn't he then be stranded there?

Maybe; Depending on how easy it is to switch capitals. But wasn't that the plan in the first place? Parson comes through and takes Spacerock. He was always gonna be trapped.
I suppose they could have dropped the tower to one HP, walked the casters out and then knocked down the tower, but I think Parson was always gonna be trapped.

[holy_dwead]

Last panel, Parson has his 3D glasses on. He's sizing up his opponents. I think he's getting ready to barrel into the Great Minds.

[Squall83]

What is meaner than making us wait for such a looooong time for the tower to fall, even provoking us with the previous text update?

Answer: Using a plot twist to make us hope that it DOESN'T fall too quickly when it's finally almost down! >_<

I'm amazed at your creativity for being able to do this while juggling about a dozen plots and subplots, Rob and Xing.

[Beeskee]

In panel 4, Antium looks like he's about to cop a feel off Wanda.

You cannot unsee it.



I think Parson planned to be trapped in Jetstone, or at least suspected he would be. But he'd be trapped with Wanda, Jack, and an ARMY. So it's all good. If the portal closes prematurely he might be able to go back to GK, or he may be intercepted by all these thinkamancers who apparently want a piece of him. Or he could run into Jeffi again. If the portal changes alignment due to Jetstone falling and Parson passes through without realizing that, he may end up blundering into a new, completely different and unexpected capitol city.


Edit: Panel 3 shows Wanda shrinking the Eyebook down to mini-size, since she's apparently done with it. It's at full size under her arm in panel 1. The earlier comics show her considering using it to send Parson a message, but she was worried about possibly distracting him during an essential moment so I don't think a message was sent. Instead, that's when Jack poked his head through the portal and said "Wassup?!"

[Swodaems]

Don't know why Jack is kicking himself over the tower-toppling. He just suggested the idea. Considering the idea's potential, it would have been silly not to. Taking out the tower is also the best move considering the fact that there are still GK fliers in the air. Taking out the Tower and Garrison's ability to fire on the air units would create a somewhat safe spot for Ossomer and the archons. Wanda was the one who gave the actual order and did so in a manner that said she would not be consulting Parson about it.

Also we have recieved more proof that Parson is actually an idiot or suicidal. I'm really hoping for someone to ridicule him soon in the strongest possible terms. He is taking a huge personal risk that may not be neccessary. (His bonus is low enough to be regarded as useless by the story's characters.) He is delaying action by forcing the army to wait for him, causing unneccessary risk to the units in Spacerock by allowing Jetstone more time to manuver. And to top things off, since that Portal will close when Spacerock falls and there exists no unit in GK that Parson can ride, he is getting himself stuck in a city far away from Gobwin Knob. The only options for getting him home would be to either launch an long escort mission to ensure that Parson has proper protection as he walks back, find some unit out there capable of carrying Parson and create a relay, hire some MK casters to try summoning him back to GK if possible, or have him start up a spin-off side using the newly captured capital site to reopen the portal.

I have this horrible suspicion that the last option I provided is going to be the case. I hope we're not looking at a 'create the world's ideal ruler with an Anyman hero who has the mental fortitude of a incontinent dead barn swallow, suddenly thrust into the leadership position against his will, whose only personal strengths are being the world's smartest man and the ability to give a speech that other characters find rousing' plot. Quite frankly, those are always horrible stories because it readily become apparent that the author has no actual idea what constitutes a good leader or what makes a bad leader a bad one. Decent leaders have to actually have some strength of character, not be bitches who wansgt over the little shit. They have to actually step up and take on the role by choice. They are not given responiblity, they take it. They have to be there for their subordinates at all times, not just whenever there is a crisis. I think Parson's 'These are people.' line followed by his declaration that he was going to Spacerock is the second most horrible scene in Erfworld. Everyone heaping on praise to Parson for his skills, when practically the whole readership could do a better job, simply makes the whole story look worse, as does the whole 'destined warlord' thing. If the Fatalists are indeed trying to create the perfect ruler, (aka. the Megalosiah,) I hope that the plan fails spectacularily, either with Parson telling them to go fuck themselves and doing his own thing, with Parson's perferably brutal death, or with circumstances forcing Parson's in-story repuation as perfect to be shattered beyond repair.

It is far too early for Parson, in the sense of character development, to be able to gain any sort of in-story reputation as a 'perfect' decision-maker or for the story's tone or characters to pretend that he is acting like one. (I quit the Sword of Truth series a quarter of the way thru the 3rd book when I realized the only limits imposed on the characters' behavior in regards to their decision-making would be whatever the plot demanded without regards to any form of logic or sensible character development.) If Parson is meant to be showing an iota of true intelligence or competance, he should be more aware of his practical limitations and be trying to think of ways to actually help his people involved in the battle without reducing himself to just another paniced participant in it.

(Of course, there is the possibility that Parson's true goal for joining this battle is something along the lines of suicide or simply trying to find a way out from under Stanley's thumb without it looking like he is purposefully shirking Duty. Of course, if that's the case, the story should to quickly own up to the fact that Parson is acting for selfish reasons. Stories with realistic, selfish people are far more fun to read than stories with perfect protagonists. Perfect people simply don't exist and aren't fun at all to read about.)

[BLANDCorporatio]

What we have here is entirely new ground. In Erfworld's history, when has a side endangered one its units by achieving victory -- while that unit isn't even at the battle? Delightfully, the realization only comes about as a result of Antium's confusion.

Even if "new", that oversight is beyond bizzare. It is obvious enough for Antium to point it out now, it's weird that nobody thought of it sooner.

No, I do see the issues THEY are having. The issue I don't see is the one YOU have with them acting like people do in the middle of a war. People screw up in the field all the time, often on the basis of plans made months in advance by people who overlooked something ridiculously self-evident in hindsight.

We seem to have different opinions on military ops. Granted, armies screw up, because among other things they lack perfect information. But this is a basic part of Erfworld physics that's well known enough for warlords to comment on (Antium) and casters to aknowledge as accurate (Jack).

And yet, neither Maggie nor Sizemore objected to the plan on the grounds that it would strand Parson in Spacerock, did they?*

Neither did the Casters in the MK. Ok, "objected" is too much to ask of them, but they didn't even raise an eyebrow when a move 0 unit dashes towards someone else's capital. What's the unit up to, a treaty? Surely it doesn't want to get stuck in that city all alone, should it fall and lose the portal.

Then Wanda slipped, in taking Jack's offhand remark and turning it into a plan. She forgot about the Portal bit too. Then Antium, and everybody else, did as well: even though they knew Parson was expected at the portal, they still waited long enough for Jack to get bored and have a look-see in the MK. Only then did Antium realize that, hey ya know what, that CWL of yours might not have a portal to pass through.

What I'm saying is there were numerous times when somebody should have commented on the strangeness of the plan. Strangeness, not stupidity. It may be that Parson wanted to be stuck in demolished Spacerock, right on the border of hostile territory. But it certainly seems like he wasn't aware of this outcome, nor did anyone feel the urge to mention it.

(EDIT the second:
*: and to get this out of the way. Yes, Parson dashing through the MK would likely make casters there aware of the disturbance (there's the GMtTA which may have been counted on to alleviate that). But if the Portal remained, there was some semblance of an easy way back. Not now. Both of the consequences: "casters upset" and "portal gone" are important enough to be made clear from the get-go. "Casters upset" was made a big deal of. "Portal gone", nope until now.)

Also we have recieved more proof that Parson is actually an idiot or suicidal. I'm really hoping for someone to ridicule him soon in the strongest possible terms. He is taking a huge personal risk that may not be neccessary.

Considering how his way there throws a spanner in the tactics on the ground, yes, that is correct. I get why Parson is doing this, but still, from a tactical standpoint, not the best idea.

EDIT the third:

Depending on how easy it is to switch capitals {maybe Parson isn't trapped).

Now THAT is a cool exploit. It doesn't change that this bit of the story feels patchy, but it's a cool and very Parsonesque exploit.

But wasn't that the plan in the first place? Parson comes through and takes Spacerock. He was always gonna be trapped.

I think Parson planned to be trapped in Jetstone, or at least suspected he would be. But he'd be trapped with Wanda, Jack, and an ARMY. So it's all good.

This might have been the plan, yes. But I find it strange that nobody (from Maggie and Sizemore who first heard it, to everyone else including, why not, Parson) felt the need to mention that yes, this is in fact the plan and yes, that consequence is accepted and accounted for.

[Beeskee]

Yeah that's true, they know he's not from Erfworld and they do need to remind him of the basic rules occasionally. Then again, this battle was a Charlie Foxtrot right up until the dwagon dwop.. er, drop. Maybe they thought he was planning to rescue Wanda and Jack and retreat, not turn a "we're gonna lose" battle into a victory. Tho why they didn't expect the Perfect Warlord to somehow turn a loss into a win is another question.


To Swodaems, I don't think Parson is being stupid here. Well, maybe a little, but he's being human mostly. Imagine, you were given command of an army on the losing side of a war. Every order you give causes someone to die. Not giving orders would cause even more deaths. One of your beginning strategies kills nearly 3,000 people. (the tunnel traps) Sure, they were enemies but still people, then you wrap it up by killing over 10,000 people (the volcano) and afterwards you were honorably discharged and someone else was put in command. They did fairly well up until trying to siege a city, when they get captured, the key players of your side put in extreme danger, and everything you gained and all those people died for is about to be lost. If that happens, your side will be back to square one, with few units left to defend and with everyone involved including you now on the receiving end of a big barbed pike. (Or another four-letter word if you prefer.) Parson is stepping in because he feels it's the right thing to do, that he can't really sit safe in a castle and order people to die anymore. One of the comics in book 2 part 1 said as much.

[cloudbreaker]

There is no need for Parson to be trapped anywhere, as long as Stanley can be convinced to switch his capital. Once Spacerock is captured, just have Stanley make that his capital, even if only temporarily. Voilà, there is a new portal for parson to go through. Heck, they could even make captured Unaroyal their capital if you really want to send Parson to a secluded location. We know that if there is a cost to it, it is less than the price of promoting an heir, and Gobwin Knob is rich.

Of course there could be more restrictions to changing your capital city that we don't know of yet, but as of now, this seems entirely possible.

[zilfallon]

Emotions. Parson isn't doing the logical thing. He is acting on his emotions. I can't see how Parson being there makes life better fo GK. I'm still kinda disappointed to see a such a common character development. "guy with powers realizes his enemies are human" this type off thing doesn't make me "O.o wth, so epic!" anymore.

[Beeskee]

Zilfallon, I haven't had any fear of that since this comic. I mean, how many times have we seen a Hero From Another (our) World get transported to a magical land devoid of tasty snacks and comfortable chairs, and through Hard Work and Determination he loses weight and blah blah blah blah BLAH. (Edit: that's the same comic where he says he isn't going to send people into battles he wouldn't fight himself.)

What is that, like, every story EVER?

Not Parson. "I magically grant myself better movement. Holy crap it worked!"


If Rob is setting things up to look like that, he probably plans to subvert it later. (I tried to find the right trope for it but couldn't)


(Edit: My guess in the wager thread was that Slately proves to be inhumane, that he'll disband people that Parson spares or something.)

[madmaw]

Initially I thought the portal closing thing was inconsistent with what we've seen, but then I thought about it a bit

We know

• When the garrison is captured, a city turns to the capturing side
• A side can only have one portal to the MK, the portal goes to that sides capital

Speculation

• As GK already controls the dungeon, if the tower falls then GK will have effectively captured the garrison/city, instantly closing the portal (Antium implies this in panel 12)

On a side-note

• When a ruler of a side is killed, and there is no heir, all the cities belonging to that side go barbarian
• Killing Slately, while a nice bonus, actually doesn't effect the capture of the capital, however it will cause all the other Jetstone cities go barbarian (remember Tram is not an heir)...
• Barbarian cities, even those on capital sites, may or may not have portals to the MK

So, if Slately dies, the portal may just disappear from the MK rather than relocate to the newly barbarian Jetstone (the city). Even if he lives and Spacerock is captured, there's nothing to say the Jetstone portal will be in the same place as the Spacerock portal.

[civilphil]

Here are some of the cool things I noticed in this comic that I am surprised no one has mentioned yet (other than the wall panel thing) . . . considering how deeply ya'll analyze this stuff. The first one is BIG ONE imo.

1. Panel 9 (or Row 3, third panel if you prefer): It sure looks to me like Parson has opened that blue Carnymancy scroll and is reading it. Interesting eh?

2. Panel 8: The guy in the wall hanging. I agree he's not a ringer for any of the Dr. Who Doctors . . . so who is he? I don't recognize him at all. If anything he makes me think of the Charles Prince of Wales . . . but that's a stretch.

3. Panel 4: The "I'm going to KILL YOU" look that Wanda gives Antium. Hilarious.

4. The whole comic: I enjoyed reading about Wanda's philosophy, and seeing that Jack understands her (and her view of fate) very well.


Not looking forward to the cliffhanger I'm expecting . . . .

[0beron]

I've watched all of the Doctor WHo (or at least listened ot the ones that the film is lost for), and I can say with certainty that isn't A Doctor. None of them wore a red double breasted coat. Only one wore a cape, but it was an operatic half-cape, not full length.

Darn that's rather depressing, here I was all excited that I had come up with a funny explanation of the Doctor being a caster :/

Here's an odd bit of speculation: Could the image be of PRINCE Slately? He may have been slightly larger before signamancy made him small to reflect his pettiness...

I'd consider that unlikely, since it would make more sense to have Casters depicted in the Portal Room. Also, we know that royalty is depicted as statues in the Throne Room, and the implication is that Casters and Royals alike are only depicted AFTER croaking.

I wonder if it might be possible that the Plier's decrypting powers, while impressive, are not limitless... in the sense that it's ability to sway units' loyalty scores diminishes over uses/amount of units already under control. So, in general, the units decrypted earlier got an almost perfect brainwash, but it's dimishing to regular turnamancy.

We have seen no evidence that the other 'Tools diminsh in power at all for any reason, but IF this were the case, it's more likely that the turnamancy becomes weak across the board depending on the total number of Decrypted Wanda commands at a given time, rather than affecting individual units differently.

That's all I have for now as I'm in a tiny bit of a rush, but I'll weigh in on the amateur predicatmancy (and some real predictamancy) later tonight most likely.
(Edit: fixed a coding problem with my quotes)

[cloudbreaker]

Here are some of the cool things I noticed in this comic that I am surprised no one has mentioned yet . . . considering how deeply ya'll analyze this stuff. The first one is BIG ONE imo.

1. Panel 9 (or Row 3, third panel if you prefer): It sure looks to me like Parson has opened that blue Carnymancy scroll and is reading it. Interesting eh?

I thought that at first, too. But it is actually the location of Parson's bracer that makes it look like the scroll is open. I think he is just doing some calculations.

[civilphil]

Here are some of the cool things I noticed in this comic that I am surprised no one has mentioned yet . . . considering how deeply ya'll analyze this stuff. The first one is BIG ONE imo.

1. Panel 9 (or Row 3, third panel if you prefer): It sure looks to me like Parson has opened that blue Carnymancy scroll and is reading it. Interesting eh?

I thought that at first, too. But it is actually the location of Parson's bracer that makes it look like the scroll is open. I think he is just doing some calculations.

Aww dang it . . . i think you're right. Poop.