Book 2 – Page 72

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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Swodaems » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:15 pm

Masennus wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:"What's going on here?" repeated five times - what's going on here?


Notice that each unit who asks it is one of Stanley's. I think his shock us so powerful that his Natural Thinkamancy as Leader sent the question as a command to all his leadership.

No. The first person who says it is a predictamancer in panel 5.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Renion » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:17 pm

fehler wrote:Not to sound petty, but did you have to wait until 9-11 to bring the tower down? Really, that's bad taste (and bad pacing), considering how much time you spent building up to this point.


Can we stop walking on eggshells about something that happened more than a decade ago? If you're still making connections to it in everyday life then find someone to talk to. A psychiatrist, or grief councilor, or clergyman. Someone that can help put your demons to rest. Everyone else has.

This is a coincidence. Nothing more.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:37 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:But what use are those magic items if they just sit in your armory doing nothing? Again, GK has a pretty decked out armory. It makes no sense to just leave them there gathering dust.

I'm not arguing against the utility of magic items. I'm saying that there's a good reason that magic items are exceptions rather than rules. Cranking an item out for a special high-level unit is fine, but then items are as rare as the units themselves.
The MK wouldn't mass-produce them, since that cuts into their main business model, and any given side that tries to mass-produce them eventually loses some to the enemy over time through normal attrition, so it makes sense that they are uncommon.

I don't think you got my point there. GK already has a considerable amount of items. Hamster just had to say a word and he got a full table of stuff to pick from and walks out with boots, cloak, armor, belt, amulet and double wielding sword/staff combo.

MarbitChow wrote:Note that when Jillian was captured, there's a reference to Stanley leaving her "magic items" (plural) out in the field. It seems clear that high-level units all will have a couple of items each, but it doesn't make sense to create too many of them - your unit goes from being a powerful unit supported by items to an irresistible target of choice.


And what if said unit already is an irresistible target of choice? Wanda has a quite big bullseye target on her right now. Wouldn't do any harm to deck her with some defensive hats and cloaks.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Beeskee » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:57 pm

Parson asked for "anything he could use, especially magical" - that doesn't mean every item on the table is a magic item.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:18 pm

Well so many things to say, i'd need a bushel of oberons to do it justice. So instead i'll just say:

I pity the fool who would disparage a twoll's thong!
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Dr Pepper » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:29 pm

atalex wrote:Two possibilities about Dollamancers that might reduce their twinkability:

1. It takes X amount of juice for a Dollamancer to fabricate a magical item, but using the item also drains Y juice from the Dollamacer at the time of use (where Y is a fraction of X and also varies depending on the type of item). This might explain why Slately (seemingly obtusely) sees little value in Ace's shockamancy-based doodads -- aesthetics aside, they also cost more juice in comparison to the more efficient golems.

2. Many game systems which make use of magical or techno-magical artifacts include a Repair/Upkeep stat indicating how long the item can be used before it must under go a commensurate amount of "tune-up and repair" time at the hands of its creator or some other qualified repairman. Otherwise, the device quickly breaks down and becomes unusable. This would account for items like the Tesla Bracer being used sparingly, as every use hastens the time when the item either must be turned in for upkeep or else it becomes completely useless.


I predict that the bracer has exactly 1 charge left. And it will be used to negate Slately's 1 charge of Resistance to Disintegration cape.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby madmaw » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:07 pm

The tower is going down and Ace and Cubbins aren't mounted
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby splintermute » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:13 pm

Swodaems wrote:
Masennus wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:"What's going on here?" repeated five times - what's going on here?


Notice that each unit who asks it is one of Stanley's. I think his shock us so powerful that his Natural Thinkamancy as Leader sent the question as a command to all his leadership.

No. The first person who says it is a predictamancer in panel 5.


That would also work - the predictamancer predicts Stanley's use of it, then Stanley actually says it and relays the question to his commanders through natural thinkamancy.

Regarding the magic items - where did GK get them all in the first place? Some, like the staff, were presumably in the casters' possession, or had been brought to the portal room before the volcano went off, and others, like the weinerrammerskin cloak, were made out of fallen enemy corpses, or, like the messenger hats, were spoils of war, but all of GK's other magic items and scrolls should have been destroyed in the volcano, much like the sword of ruthlessness was, and the MK has been reluctant to sell anything to GK since tBfGK.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Beeskee » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:16 pm

One thing I've been thinking about: If the portal was going to close before Parson could get through, wouldn't the passel of predictamancers, well, predict it? Or do you all think that might be part of the "It's blurry" side of things?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Masennus » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:26 pm

splintermute wrote:
That would also work - the predictamancer predicts Stanley's use of it, then Stanley actually says it and relays the question to his commanders through natural thinkamancy.



I like that my theory is saved, but this does add a level of tinfoil-hattery to it. :(
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Lamech » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:38 pm

Magic items don't make sense except for important units. Making a piker three times as badass, isn't very useful compared to making a pack of scarecrows. But yes each and every important unit caster/cheif-warlord/king should be decked when they go out into battle. Of course, whose to say they weren't? For example, Ossomer and Tram were able to stand up to that one shock. An ability like that sound familiar?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Saela » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:44 pm

Masennus wrote:
splintermute wrote:
That would also work - the predictamancer predicts Stanley's use of it, then Stanley actually says it and relays the question to his commanders through natural thinkamancy.



I like that my theory is saved, but this does add a level of tinfoil-hattery to it. :(


Let's take the tinfoil-hattery up to 11, shall we?

"What's going on here?" is being repeated so much because that is what Parson is currently hearing in the "real world."
Book two will end with Parson waking up.

(Disclaimer: I may or may not actually believe a single word of this.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Vorteks » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:41 pm

Jay wrote:I sincerely hope those new magic items only last one turn before the magic fades. Otherwise Dollamancers are the most ridiculously overpowered (and underused) casters in Erfworld.

Because if a caster can craft multiple permanent magic items in a single turn, then any side with a dollamancer should have an arsenal of hundreds of magic items (in all different areas of magic), and every warlord would be armed to the teeth. Heck, even normal units would be armed to the teeth.


One possibility that nobody has mentioned yet is that magic items take not only juice, but also shmuckers to create.

I think though that what we've seen is that whether it's dollamancy, shockamancy, foolamancy, thinkamancy, turnamancy, dirtamancy, or whatever, magic in Erfworld is pretty game-changing. That's why casters are so rare and valuable. If a side could pop casters on purpose they would probably rule the world in short order. The effect dollamancers can have on any one specific turn is probably somewhat less than other casting types (creating a shockamancy item probably has a lower potential damage-to-juice ratio than casting a shockamancy spell, I'd speculate). But the trade off is that their actions can continue to benefit their side many turns later. Seems fair.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Kalak » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:45 pm

Kreistor wrote:Another, "trying to maintain the suspense" page. Sigh. King issues a challenge to son. Whoopie. Parson moves up to portal and Predicamancers arrive. Yawn. Sylvia sitll hasn't crashed the tower. Joy.

Stop it with the NOTHING HAPPENING already and make something HAPPEN! Nothing serious has changed in 12 pages! It's dragging and dragging, and the suspense is totally being lost!


Stay classy, Kreistor.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:50 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:And what if said unit already is an irresistible target of choice? Wanda has a quite big bullseye target on her right now. Wouldn't do any harm to deck her with some defensive hats and cloaks.

Wanda did deck herself out before she got the 'Pliers - she had a staff and helm when she went gunning for Ansom in Book 1, for example.
I suspect that, once she got the 'Pliers, she feels that she doesn't need anything else. She thinks she's protected by fate (and an artifact, and a huge army... etc.)
Stanley also has no reason to make Wanda even more powerful - she's already scary enough.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby the_tick_rules » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:10 am

Holy crap, someone try and count the number of plot ponts hanging in this one strip? Probably a record.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby drachefly » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:27 am

MarbitChow wrote:I suspect that, once she got the 'Pliers, she feels that she doesn't need anything else. She thinks she's protected by fate (and an artifact, and a huge army... etc.)


That is contrary to her own philosophy. However, that's not saying that she didn't think that anyway.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Nebulious » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:50 am

Let's also not forget about the opportunity cost of making those items. Holly Shortcake used her juice to create and maintain siege units. Transylvito's dollamancer is mentioned to stock every garrison with scarecrows and goyles. Hardware was never as good a replacement as Shortcake, so his talents in creating items were wasted, tossed aside as a hobby.

Another possibility is that not all casters of one discipline develop identical abilities, just like all cities have different menus of units they can produce. Ace might be an equipment fabrication prodigy that's terrible at making new units.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby elecampane » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:50 am

MarbitChow wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:And what if said unit already is an irresistible target of choice? Wanda has a quite big bullseye target on her right now. Wouldn't do any harm to deck her with some defensive hats and cloaks.

Wanda did deck herself out before she got the 'Pliers - she had a staff and helm when she went gunning for Ansom in Book 1, for example.
I suspect that, once she got the 'Pliers, she feels that she doesn't need anything else. She thinks she's protected by fate (and an artifact, and a huge army... etc.)
Stanley also has no reason to make Wanda even more powerful - she's already scary enough.

The hair-like helmet she was wearing at the very beginning of the book 2 gave her dance-fight bonuses. And she also had better headgear for aerial fight. Not sure if these items were magical, though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby mortissimus » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:58 am

Nebulious wrote:Another possibility is that not all casters of one discipline develop identical abilities, just like all cities have different menus of units they can produce. Ace might be an equipment fabrication prodigy that's terrible at making new units.


Being named Ace Hardware does ring of Signamancy.
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