Book 2 – Page 72

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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Spiky » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:24 am

Kreistor wrote:Another, "trying to maintain the suspense" page. Sigh. King issues a challenge to son. Whoopie. Parson moves up to portal and Predicamancers arrive. Yawn. Sylvia sitll hasn't crashed the tower. Joy.

Stop it with the NOTHING HAPPENING already and make something HAPPEN! Nothing serious has changed in 12 pages! It's dragging and dragging, and the suspense is totally being lost!

Amen! Although I'd say far more than 12 pages.

I came here expecting to find posts like this. And only 1! In Book 1, this comic moved with the pace of an epic movie, jumping obvious plot points and referencing them later, showing us only what what necessary. It allowed us to fill things in ourselves, gave the forum something to discuss. Now, it's like we have to read every stray thought that might flit through the mind of any character ever introduced. And the discussion is reduced to bickering over how clothing works. What are we, 9 year old girls?

Ossomer has been floating there since November, 2010, or 26 pages. And I've lost count of how many times he whined 'I am honorable'. God, somebody kill him or muzzle him or something.

Page 68 was awesome though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Tathar » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:22 am

mortissimus wrote:
Nebulious wrote:Another possibility is that not all casters of one discipline develop identical abilities, just like all cities have different menus of units they can produce. Ace might be an equipment fabrication prodigy that's terrible at making new units.


Being named Ace Hardware does ring of Signamancy.

As does Sizemore Rockwell.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby coyotenose » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:01 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:I don't think you got my point there. GK already has a considerable amount of items. Hamster just had to say a word and he got a full table of stuff to pick from and walks out with boots, cloak, armor, belt, amulet and double wielding sword/staff combo.


I never thought about it til now, but note that every item Parson has is sized for him, or perhaps more accurately, sized for twolls. What does that mean?

And of course the helm was specifically crafted for him, suggesting some initiative on the part of the twolls.

Also, as far as the "Every side with a dollamancer should be swimming in magic items" argument goes:

1. Cloth golems in particular probably require a lot of upkeep. They're stitched cloth that moves around and lifts heavy objects. If nothing else, their feet would get tattered and filthy :-P

2. Jetstone has Ace and Cubbins. That's the power combo for maximizing their usefulness for the specific purpose of putting magic items together. But it probably isn't even all that's required, because...

3. Ace and Cubbins charged Slateley's possessions with Shockamancy, Thinkamancy and other classes of magic. Presumably they have to either have scrolls on hand, or know some of those other classes themselves. I'd theorize that they've each learned a little bit of several fields, and that they get more effect out of enchanting items with those spells than casting those spells because of the emphasis of their types of magic. Like, say, a Shockamancer learns and casts a spell at an arbitrary level 5. A talented Dollamancer learns that same spell and puts just as much effort into it, but can only cast it at a level 2. However, he can enchant Slately's sceptre with the spell at a 5 or even a 6... temporarily.
If this or something similar were true, then there's a lot of investment in time and training just to get a dollamancer who can effectively craft magic items with the juice he has, and THEN he needs the components (where Cubbins comes in). As well, using other magic types than your own probably costs a lot more juice, enough that it simply isn't worth it even in the vast majority of emergencies, assuming you're a multi-talented caster to begin with.

4. Enchanting magic items probably requires expensive, quality components. You don't turn just any blade into a vorpal weapon. Slately's regalia by definition fits this theoretical requirement. Cubbins may be able to make small amounts of high-end stuff, but it might have a Shmuckers cost associated with it anyway. What I inferred from his and Ace's first appearance is that most of what Cubbins creates is materials for "gadgets" rather than "magic items".

5. Using magic items in combat could very well reduce experience awards. Using all your casters' juice for, say, a hundred turns to outfit five stacks, AFTER conjuring or buying the (theoretically necessary) quality components, and then having those stacks not level properly doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

6. Related to #5, artificially inflated units simply don't learn as much. They'll tend to rely on their strength of arms too much. Try to imagine how dumb Jillian or Ansom would be if they had MORE magic backing up their decisions. In a similar vein, if you put a piker in +Defense armor from head to toe, he won't know how to use it. Armor requires specific training for strength, coordination and strategy (both individual and in stacks), and we can clearly see from the example of Slately that enchanted gear doesn't look or wear like the original does. So, to continue my jabbering above, after you finally equip and enchant those five stacks, only THEN can you properly train them in how to use their new gear, and they're kinda worthless in the meantime.

7. There are probably tradeoffs when switching in magic items. Put a Thinking Cap on a knight and you've got a knight who can't be confused, but whose head armor can't stop a stiff wind. Now, you can put an enchanted and presumably stronger helm on him, but there are probably practical limits. As tough as knights are, he's probably already equipped with a high-end helm, and taking the time and expense to upgrade it slightly might not actually give him any more protection from a concussion or broken neck when a mace slams down on his noggin. You could end up with a nice, shiny, unblemished helm and a dead knight inside it.

8. Is there a caster type that is good at ranged disenchanting? That would shut down mass magic item production strategies right quick.
Last edited by coyotenose on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby coyotenose » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:04 pm

Saela wrote:Let's take the tinfoil-hattery up to 11, shall we?

"What's going on here?" is being repeated so much because that is what Parson is currently hearing in the "real world."
Book two will end with Parson waking up.

(Disclaimer: I may or may not actually believe a single word of this.)



O.O Oh God. Parson's actually carrying a Scroll of Choose to Wake Up.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Ditto » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:55 pm

Weirdomancers would probably be the best fit for de-buffs, they can cancel specials like Flight and other things that explicitly violate Erfworld's rules due to magic. (As opposed to Parson's tactics, which technically-don't-violate Erfworlds rules. But only just.)

True, this is another page where 'nothing happened'. But unlike last page, which was decidedly empty, this was a productive page! Tons of people moved into position. After everyone is standing around for a few minutes, a scene where the hero loads a gun IS something happening, even if he didn't shoot it yet. This page is what we've been waiting for, because even if Stuff Didn't Happen, this page says 'Okay, here comes stuff happening right now everybody!'
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Shnezz » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:42 pm

No... no... NONONONO! NO! First Bogroll, do not decapitate Jack by portal closing!!! D:
I am not sending subliminal messages.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Dr Pepper » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:39 pm

coyotenose wrote:I never thought about it til now, but note that every item Parson has is sized for him, or perhaps more accurately, sized for twolls. What does that mean?


It's already been establised that magic items can be resized.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby coyotenose » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:33 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:
coyotenose wrote:I never thought about it til now, but note that every item Parson has is sized for him, or perhaps more accurately, sized for twolls. What does that mean?


It's already been establised that magic items can be resized.


It's been established that eyebooks can be easily resized. That's far more likely to be a function of the specific item, which is otherwise unwieldy as it cannot be sheathed or worn and doesn't have a handle. Presumably spells exist for permanent resizing (I'd say it's a given that Ace can resize clothing and armor), but who in Gobwin Knob would be using such magic on gear for Parson... especially since every GK caster was either with Parson or outside the city at the time he gave the command to gather items for his use?

Now, I would love it if twolls' Natural Dollamancy included easy resizing, because that would mean we could hammer out (hah!) a thousand exploits based off that simple talent. But that simply doesn't fit (hah deux!)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Azukar » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:39 pm

Shnezz wrote:No... no... NONONONO! NO! First Bogroll, do not decapitate Jack by portal closing!!! D:


No way they could kill off Jack...
...
Right?

*touches wood* :shock:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby DoctorJest » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:20 pm

Swodaems wrote:
Aquillion wrote:
CNagy wrote:The portal only vanishes when the city is no longer a capital, and the city remains a capital as long as Slately is still there and alive to defend it.
No. The attackers control the city once they've captured the Courtyard, Dungeons, and Tower, regardless of whether Slately is still alive or not. (Holding the airspace doesn't count, remember.) The moment the tower crumbles, the portal closes, because every important part of the city is in their hands.

Antium speaks as if there are still some enemy units in the dungeon and courtyard.


He also stated explicitly that when the tower comes down, the city will cease to be a capital city and the portal will close.
http://www.erfworld.com/page/3/
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby nth » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:26 pm

coyotenose wrote:O.O Oh God. Parson's actually carrying a Scroll of Choose to Wake Up.


Since it's been mentioned now, do a quick google search for "what's going on here lyrics".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby DoctorJest » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:27 pm

Jay wrote:I sincerely hope those new magic items only last one turn before the magic fades. Otherwise Dollamancers are the most ridiculously overpowered (and underused) casters in Erfworld.

Because if a caster can craft multiple permanent magic items in a single turn, then any side with a dollamancer should have an arsenal of hundreds of magic items (in all different areas of magic), and every warlord would be armed to the teeth. Heck, even normal units would be armed to the teeth.


Heck, why stop with enhancing existing units? You could make entire new units, even heavies, with dollamancy... oh right they did that!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby DoctorJest » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:28 pm

nth wrote:
coyotenose wrote:O.O Oh God. Parson's actually carrying a Scroll of Choose to Wake Up.


Since it's been mentioned now, do a quick google search for "what's going on here lyrics".


Seems like a stretch.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby DoctorJest » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:34 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Jay wrote:I sincerely hope those new magic items only last one turn before the magic fades. Otherwise Dollamancers are the most ridiculously overpowered (and underused) casters in Erfworld.

Because if a caster can craft multiple permanent magic items in a single turn, then any side with a dollamancer should have an arsenal of hundreds of magic items (in all different areas of magic), and every warlord would be armed to the teeth. Heck, even normal units would be armed to the teeth.


By any sane interpretation, yes. I'm with you on this one.

However, our case will be countered by "only Parson would have thought about that hack"


Hardly, since Ace apparently did. Most dollamancers, from what we've seen, don't make magic items, but instead make entire units (tchotchkies, dolls, etc). Free units are likely seen as a better use of Dollamancer Juice than magic items by most rulers (and, in most cases, that's probably true: making a unit vs enhancing an existing unit is probably better, like it is in most TBS games).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Jorgath » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:03 am

coyotenose wrote:2. Jetstone has Ace and Cubbins. That's the power combo for maximizing their usefulness for the specific purpose of putting magic items together.


The way you said this got me the idea, but this is why Dollamancers aren't broken. They don't make things out of thin air. They need raw materials. Ace doesn't just wave his hands and turn magic fairy juice into an enchanted ray gun, or a flying jetpack armor plate. He makes those things out of a scepter and a non-enchanted armor plate. He needs cloth to make a magic cape, a sword to make a magic sword, etc.

Cubbins, on the other hand, does pull things out of thin air -- actually, he pulls them out of a hat. But I doubt anything he pulls out of a hat can be enchanted by him, unless it's another hat. So Ace wants to make a jetpack? Cubbins pulls a piece of armor out of a hat, and Ace gets to work enchanting it. The combo of the two of them is pretty brokenly impressive, but a Dollamancer on his own has a lot of limitations.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:16 am

Kalak wrote:Stay classy, Kreistor.


Are you implying a lack of class? Because that was a constructively expressed negative opinion. Those do exist.

CNagy wrote: Perhaps equipment has an effect on upkeep? A baseless guess, but it would be one way to encourage hoarding rather than using. Alternatively, magic items have been mentioned as things that are sometimes sold (such as Parson being told what certain mathamancy-dependent sides would pay for his bracer) so they could be another means of bolstering the treasury when needed. Probably good in trade for diplomacy, too.


While baseless, the guess on equipment vs. upkeep is an interesting paranthetical. My guess is that equipment costs no upkeep as opposed to units, say, like Cloth Golems.

I also note that if you assume magic items would not be used for fear of being captured (I'll return to that idea later), trading them would not be a big business. If you don't want to use them for fear you might lose them, why buy any?

CNagy wrote:With Dollamancers, though, it could just come down to opportunity cost; how many cloth golems' worth of juice does it take to make this, that, or the other item? Does the increased combat ability of the unit outweigh the increased combat usefulness of additional units, etc.


This is the one plausible point on this issue, imo. That is exactly what it boils down to. My guess is that we've seen Slately aquire a boopload of items all at once only because Ace had a boopload of items lying around from tens/hundreds of previous turns, and it was easier to fit them on Slately's regalia.

So it would not be the case that buidling items is cheap, and then they'd be exactly as rare as we've seen them. They crop up here and there, but only sometimes.

CNagy wrote:There would have to be some drawback--aside from the obvious one of supplying your enemies with magical items in the battles that they win--to explain why magic items aren't in wide circulation.


MarbitChow wrote:You don't need much more than that. You don't give magic items to level 1 units; they get chewed through. Your high-level units already have massive bulls-eyes painted on them since their leadership bonuses apply to everyone.


I'm sorry, but that's a stupid idea. "Oh of course we won't fit our grunts with quality weapons and armor, just in case we lose the battle". Right. Maybe, if the option existed to equip all grunts with light sabers you wouldn't lose the battle in the first place. This "logic" is seen most clearly when claiming that magic items would make high level units to be even juicier targets (and implying that's a strike against magic items). Sure, ok. Send your warlords to battle naked*. Or better yet, don't send any warlords since as bonus providing units they have fat bullseyes on them anyway.

*: some of them may benefit from Flash effects on the enemy in this scenario but I trust you get the point.

I'd also like to point out that Dollamancers exist that work for rulers of Erfworld and as such their primary duty is to that side, not the MK. Therefore, the MK is not the only supplier of items. Further, this discussion started about how useful would a Dollamancer be for the side that owned them. It's not about any shady trade policies that the MK might be able to enforce on itself.

DoctorJest wrote:Hardly, since Ace apparently did. Most dollamancers, from what we've seen, don't make magic items, but instead make entire units (tchotchkies, dolls, etc). Free units are likely seen as a better use of Dollamancer Juice than magic items by most rulers (and, in most cases, that's probably true: making a unit vs enhancing an existing unit is probably better, like it is in most TBS games).


No. "Most rulers" that we know of and are relevant to the discussion are: Slately. The rest of the argument cannot, at this time, be properly discussed- see the second quoted thing in this post and my response. I'd also note that depending on your TBS, upgraded units are way better than having more, but lower level, units. Any kind of hero unit in any kind of game follows this logic (heck, one Heroes 4 40th level hero is a pain to dispatch for a group of 30th+ level heroes). And several of the games I'm thinking of do not even have unit upkeep.

This is relevant because units cost upkeep in Erfworld, but so far, we've not seen any evidence that items incur a similar cost, whether used or kept in storage. So if you can get better units at no extra upkeep cost, or more units but at increased upkeep cost, it's not at all clear which option is better and there should be a lean towards the first.

The real questions are- what items can be made, how much does it cost to make them, how quickly can they be constructed? Similar questions for the units summonable by Dollamancy.

And to keep things consistent with what we've seen, I'd guess that build time is the limiting factor on the number of items available in the world (and possibly that Golems are easier to make; much easier, as Sizemore's immediate summon of several UberStrong Rock Gowems showed).

coyotenose wrote:4. Enchanting magic items probably requires expensive, quality components. {snip}

5. Using magic items in combat could very well reduce experience awards. {snip}

6. Related to #5, artificially inflated units simply don't learn as much. They'll tend to rely on their strength of arms too much. {snip}

8. Is there a caster type that is good at ranged disenchanting? That would shut down mass magic item production strategies right quick.


Care to explain what evidence there is for any of those ideas? And about 8, no it wouldn't. Compare and contrast Earth, where we have this enchantment called life, and these wonderful ranged disenchanters called weapons. Nonetheless, wars happen (which sometimes include such tactics like human waves) and the population increases anyway.

coyotenose wrote:7. There are probably tradeoffs when switching in magic items.


Yes there probably are, if any TBS in existence is any indication. Have your hero wield the Claw of Bethrezen will make them a lightning fast melee powerhouse, but prevents them from turning struck enemies into chickens, which they would be able to do if the used the Witch Staff instead (but if they used that, they wouldn't get the speed and attack bonus). So what? Have your selection of items, think about how to use it- it's basic tactics.
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The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby Sojiko » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:38 am

On the portal closing when the tower falls, here is what Antium said : "We should go forth now, mop up the dungeon and the inner walls, and be ready to scour the rubble for barbarian stragglers once the tower is down."
From that we can deduct :
1) the Dungeon is NOT empty of Jetson units yet, and therefore the city won't fall to GK's control even if the tower does crumble and completely disappears.
2) he is assuming Slately dies (since he's speaking of barbarian units) and therefore his conclusion that the portal will disappear doesn't mean he thinks the city will be taken, simply that the side would disappear with Slately
3) he is speaking of stragglers in the rubbles, meaning that the tower fall is not assumed to get rid of all units inside, meaning they'd have to kill those even if the tower fell in order to take control of the tower space

(not to mention that taking the tower means GK units with not a single JS one so they'd also have to advance inside, but that's only if destroying the tower doesn't remove it as a goal necessary to control the city, maybe if it's brought down holding the rest is enough)


See point #2 above. He's not saying that they wouldn't need to capture the dungeon to finally grab the city, he's assuming the tower fall will kill Slately and end Jetson's side. If he survives the collapse this no longer holds true.

Masennus wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:"What's going on here?" repeated five times - what's going on here?


Notice that each unit who asks it is one of Stanley's. I think his shock us so powerful that his Natural Thinkamancy as Leader sent the question as a command to all his leadership.

Actually one of the very first to ask the question was the groundhog holder predictamancer. Maybe he was Predicting the question? But other than that, yes, all Stanley's units after Stanley asked the question (and that includes a decrypted which would mean there definitely is a connection between the overlord and decrypted, it wouldn't only be with Wanda).

Kreistor wrote:Another, "trying to maintain the suspense" page. Sigh. King issues a challenge to son. Whoopie. Parson moves up to portal and Predicamancers arrive. Yawn. Sylvia sitll hasn't crashed the tower. Joy.

Stop it with the NOTHING HAPPENING already and make something HAPPEN! Nothing serious has changed in 12 pages! It's dragging and dragging, and the suspense is totally being lost!

Yeah, I kinda have to agree with Kreistor here. Let's recap :
pannel 1~4 : Ossomer is struggling with his new state and his father is refusing to see him as his son, old news.
pannel 5 : predictamancers are arriving, old news
pannel 6 : thinkamancers don't linke this, which is old news since they're here to prevent other casters from meddling
pannel 7 : Stanley's barging in to demand answers concerning this whole mess, old news from one of the text updates
pannel 8~9 : Stanley's gear explained, old news from another text update
pannel 10 : Stanley's new signamancy, hilarious but doesn't advance the plot in any way
pannel 11 : Thinkamancers are still refusing to negotiate, old news
pannel 12 : Jack is being Jack, just like before
pannel 13 : Sylvia is attacking the tower with her siege dwagons. Again. Just as she had been doing for Titans know how long. Old.
pannel 14 : the tower is about to collapse, which had been explained several times already.

So instead of tower collapse being "very soon" it is now "very very soon", Jack does have his head out at the crucial time, and Parson walked up the stairs. That's pretty much everything new in here (that and text updates relevant to the story which get introduced in the comic, obligatory but nothing new for us).

I like this update, but it's basically saying "thank you for waiting, next update will have something new, promise!".

MarbitChow wrote:I suspect that, once she got the 'Pliers, she feels that she doesn't need anything else. She thinks she's protected by fate (and an artifact, and a huge army... etc.)
The Michael Jackson outfit she wore for the attack on Spacerock was a magical outfit that boosted her ability to perform dance fighting, so no, she didn't start neglecting her equipment after getting the pliers.
Why do people assume that the various characters AREN'T decked out in magical bling?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:45 am

Sojiko wrote:On the portal closing when the tower falls, here is what Antium said : "We should go forth now, mop up the dungeon and the inner walls, and be ready to scour the rubble for barbarian stragglers once the tower is down."
From that we can deduct :
1) the Dungeon is NOT empty of Jetson units yet, and therefore the city won't fall to GK's control even if the tower does crumble and completely disappears.
2) he is assuming Slately dies (since he's speaking of barbarian units) and therefore his conclusion that the portal will disappear doesn't mean he thinks the city will be taken, simply that the side would disappear with Slately
3) he is speaking of stragglers in the rubbles, meaning that the tower fall is not assumed to get rid of all units inside, meaning they'd have to kill those even if the tower fell in order to take control of the tower space


There has been a similar discussion back when the "oops moment" from Jack happened. To recap. At the time, Jack and Antium considered that Slately was stuck in the tower, and collapsing the tower was nigh-guaranteed to croak Slately. Also, it was known that Jetstone did not have an heir at that time.

Therefore the Tower collapse meant Slately dead, Jetstone leaderless and ended as a side, Spacerock no longer a capital, the portal no longer existing.

Read the update.

Jack: "If we took the city now, it would no longer be a capital. The portal would close."
Antium: "Yes but that will happen at any moment anyway. As soon as the tower falls."

And Jack goes oops.

Sojiko wrote:Why do people assume that the various characters AREN'T decked out in magical bling?


You have it backwards. What some people (like me) are saying is "if a Dollamancer can make enough items to cover a King in awesome weaponry in one turn, how come it's not EVERYONE who's decked out in magical bling?" (Answer, a Dollamancer cannot make enough items in one turn)
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby CNagy » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:26 am

DoctorJest wrote:He also stated explicitly that when the tower comes down, the city will cease to be a capital city and the portal will close.
http://www.erfworld.com/page/3/


That's not explicit. Jack says that if they took the city now, it would no longer be a capital. Antium says that the city is about to not be a capital in a moment anyway, as soon as the tower comes down. This does not explicitly state that dropping the tower negates the city's designation as a capital. They are dropping the tower to kill Slately, and killing Slately ends Jetstone as a side, thus turning Spacerock into a barbarian city with no portal to the Magic Kingdom. http://www.erfworld.com/page/32/
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Re: Book 2 – Page 72

Postby CNagy » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:50 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:While baseless, the guess on equipment vs. upkeep is an interesting paranthetical. My guess is that equipment costs no upkeep as opposed to units, say, like Cloth Golems.

My point (still baseless) wasn't that equipment cost upkeep, but rather that equipment might increase the upkeep of the unit equipping it.

I also note that if you assume magic items would not be used for fear of being captured (I'll return to that idea later), trading them would not be a big business. If you don't want to use them for fear you might lose them, why buy any?

Big business would be a relative thing.

CNagy wrote:There would have to be some drawback--aside from the obvious one of supplying your enemies with magical items in the battles that they win--to explain why magic items aren't in wide circulation.


I'm sorry, but that's a stupid idea. "Oh of course we won't fit our grunts with quality weapons and armor, just in case we lose the battle". Right. Maybe, if the option existed to equip all grunts with light sabers you wouldn't lose the battle in the first place. This "logic" is seen most clearly when claiming that magic items would make high level units to be even juicier targets (and implying that's a strike against magic items). Sure, ok. Send your warlords to battle naked*. Or better yet, don't send any warlords since as bonus providing units they have fat bullseyes on them anyway.

*: some of them may benefit from Flash effects on the enemy in this scenario but I trust you get the point.

It's game economics. Do you produce a few advanced units or a horde of basic ones? Do you equip your pikers with special weapons only to have them run into several stacks of archers? The fact of the matter is that war is a constant on Erf. If you are the one side paying to have your units equipped with items that persist after the units themselves die, then every battle that you lose funds whoever beat you. And sure, maybe you'll get those items back if they field them in the next battle, but the fact of the matter is that you've paid and increased their combat capability. And what you paid to make items, they paid to make units. Additionally, if they don't redeploy the items, then you've essentially just lost the investment (short of taking where ever they are being stored.) So the fear of letting magical items fall easily into the hands of the Side you are at war with is not a stupid idea.

Not outfitting your commanding units, however, is a stupid idea, which is why I tossed out my (baseless) idea that items increase a unit's upkeep cost--but even that would be a weak drawback. So long as I could afford it, I'd rather have my commanders decked out to maximum combat effectiveness rather than save a bit of coin.
CNagy
 
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