Summer Update - 025

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:33 pm

wanda certainly wasn't turned. we don't know anything about jack. except that he seems willing to help stanley but also to the thing with the fireworks. that seemed in the best interests of keeping wanda and stanley from killing each other i guess. i'm sure his character is due for some exposition come book 2.

so far his loyalty seems pretty heftily aimed in stanley's direction though. he certainly turned down a leader allegedly had feelings for in that pass. whether he's compelled too by magic or by choice is all guesswork.

the point remains though that two of faqs casters are working for GK now, one of which has point blank stated she's NOT loyal to stanley, she's loyal to fate. she's even alluded to betraying GK in the future when she says "what i may yet do"
wanda is a black widow, trust her enough and she'll get you killed.

however that's not going to convince oberon, sounds like oberon's a wanda fan.

edit: damn, these reactions threads need rules so we stay somewhat close to the original topic. this update was about clothes and popping cities, somehow we've hit theological debates and back to arguing the previous book.
Last edited by moose o death on Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby BarGamer » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:36 pm

Sizemore looks so cute when he's embarrassed. XD I likey, Alisa!

Speaking of him, we've seen Sizemore use a spell to take a rather-smashed golem and bring it back to it's feet, swinging away. We've seen an Altruist Elf "healing" a moose-thingy. Have we seen Wanda use a non-Decrypting spell or anything to bring an uncroaked back to "health" or otherwise "slow down" decomposition? It's assumed that she CAN'T, or her warlords would look a lot less gooey and have more initiative, or whatever.

Unless "Pozzolana" is an ArkenShovel spell, similar to "Decrypt?" :D
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:40 pm

BarGamer wrote:Sizemore looks so cute when he's embarrassed. XD I likey, Alisa!

Speaking of him, we've seen Sizemore use a spell to take a rather-smashed golem and bring it back to it's feet, swinging away. We've seen an Altruist Elf "healing" a moose-thingy. Have we seen Wanda use a non-Decrypting spell or anything to bring an uncroaked back to "health" or otherwise "slow down" decomposition? It's assumed that she CAN'T, or her warlords would look a lot less gooey and have more initiative, or whatever.

Unless "Pozzolana" is an ArkenShovel spell, similar to "Decrypt?" :D

go back one page and read my apology for getting that wrong, dead horse, it's dead, very very dead. stop hitting it. i apologised on the internet dead.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:43 pm

Moose, these threads inevitably contain every subject that isn't deemed worthy of a new thread elsewhere.

Regarding Pozzolana spell: would it count as a "repair" spell rather than "healing?" It's almost certainly a dirtamancy spell, much as a "mend" spell would likely be in the arsenal of a dollamancer and could possibly repair either a doll or an article of clothing.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:05 pm

DevilDan wrote:Moose, these threads inevitably contain every subject that isn't deemed worthy of a new thread elsewhere.


that's been obvious since the forums started, but why? constantly off topic'd threads leave unanswered questions in totally arbitrary locations. the same arguements arise in every reaction thread with new combatants. it seems to be an inherited trait from the oots forums but most forums i frequent don't allow this stuff to happen.

if something isn't worthy of a new thread then it's not worth discussing in general. some of these discussion do get taken to everything else erfworld. but each individual comic having it's own reaction thread actually seems kind of pointless. especially once we get two pages in and none of the posts are even about that page anyway.

i get annoyed at having to repeat the same theory every 3 days to the point that half the time i just assume the standard theory the rest of you hold for the sake of not repeating myself. EG my opinions on faq not being conquerred at all. i think i'll bow out for a while.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Spot » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:15 pm

moose o death wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Moose, these threads inevitably contain every subject that isn't deemed worthy of a new thread elsewhere.


that's been obvious since the forums started, but why? constantly off topic'd threads leave unanswered questions in totally arbitrary locations. the same arguements arise in every reaction thread with new combatants. it seems to be an inherited trait from the oots forums but most forums i frequent don't allow this stuff to happen.

if something isn't worthy of a new thread then it's not worth discussing in general. some of these discussion do get taken to everything else erfworld. but each individual comic having it's own reaction thread actually seems kind of pointless. especially once we get two pages in and none of the posts are even about that page anyway.

i get annoyed at having to repeat the same theory every 3 days to the point that half the time i just assume the standard theory the rest of you hold for the sake of not repeating myself. EG my opinions on faq not being conquerred at all. i think i'll bow out for a while.




I don't think that everyone's minds runs along the same sort of straight path from a to b to c. Some people... (maybe even most people?), do tend to think in straight lines that neatly tackle subsets of one defined issue at a time. Like a train moving on schedule down the tracks between marked stations.

But others, have minds where the train of thought isn't a train at all, but more like a gazelle leaping from idea to idea, leaving one subject to go nibble on an interesting concept on another path, before leaping back an hour later to take a second bite out of the same leaf it was nibbling on before leaping away.

Asking the gazelles to act like trains isn't likely to result in anything other than chasing all of the gazelles away from the tracks. And a train trip without any gazelles along the track to look at would be much duller, no?

;)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby zbeeblebrox » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:12 am

Your effort is noble, Spot, but I don't see any need to defend something that's the result of structure rather than culture. It'd be liked defending the Dewey Decimal System in the face of the online database search function. ;)

Chronic Thread derailing actually seems to be endemic within all message boards I've seen that are defined by a webcomic. Non-comic-driven boards tend to, in general (assuming they're driven by something with equal topical power, rather than a message board for the sake of being a message board [read: SA]), be more...shall we say...cohesive in their thought processes. This is so, even though many participants of comic boards seem to be widely experienced forumers.

Part of this is due to the speculative nature of serialized stories. We don't find ourselves putting forward so many theories in normal internet conversation, so it doesn't occur to us to compartmentalize those things into a separate section. I think another part is due to no webcomic board really having an optimal organizing structure to build upon. I feel like Sluggy's "SRC" and that section's strict division from the "reactions" section, while born out of necessity, comes the closest to having a manageable place to collect and identify theories. It's still nowhere near perfect though, and rife with its own unique problems.

I'm not sure there's a clear solution, but there are definitely options out there.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:04 am

On the Internet, the only time you are On Topic is when you are Off Topic. ;)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Erk » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:50 am

Very zen, handofshadows ;)

From a moderative standpoint, defining what's "on topic" in a thread meant for the reactions, thoughts, and tangents from an update is a bit problematic. Personally I'd prefer if people really didn't get into too much implication discussion in this forum at all, and moved their speculation to Everything Else Erfworld, but failing that this is kind of a catchall for pretty much anything the new update makes you think of. If you have a thought or theory you don't want to keep on repeating, go make a thread there and don't fret when it gets buried in the chaos of folks' excitement over the new update in this thread.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:19 am

Moose, the solution to your quandary is deceptively simple. If you don't want to repeat yourself constantly about a theory, start a relevant thread on the subject. Then we'll have a neat little area dedicated to that question, one to which others who try to discuss this in other threads can be pointed. More importantly, this will be a clearinghouse for all relevant theories and facts, leading to more informed, efficient, and hopefully constructive debate.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby OneHugeTuck » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:08 pm

Until it becomes a conversation about something else:)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Lothmar » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:25 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:Until it becomes a conversation about something else:)

Speaking of something else, ~Looks down at lunch~ Kie lime pie fans? XD
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Dowdos » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:28 pm

I can't believe no one has mentioned the many things Parson could do with the fabrication ability now that he knows what it is. Could he invent guns by just describing them to a twoll? Could he hire a dollimancer to make a Steak n' Shake out of that empty building?
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby BarGamer » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:53 pm

Dowdos wrote:I can't believe no one has mentioned the many things Parson could do with the fabrication ability now that he knows what it is. Could he invent guns by just describing them to a twoll? Could he hire a dollimancer to make a Steak n' Shake out of that empty building?


I demand that one of the re-re-conquered cities be called "Avalon," just so we can have a "Guns of Avalon" reference. *Is an Amber fanboy.* Which Prince(ss) of Amber is Charlie or the Titans? XD

PS: Sorry, Moose. But horse-meat is SO much tastier after tenderizing...
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:21 pm

Dowdos wrote:I can't believe no one has mentioned the many things Parson could do with the fabrication ability now that he knows what it is. Could he invent guns by just describing them to a twoll? Could he hire a dollimancer to make a Steak n' Shake out of that empty building?

Assuming that the physics of Erf allow something similar to gunpowder to exist, I suppose.

Firearms aren't simple devices. Unless he's a student of them, Parson, however intelligent, would at best end up with something like a harquebus. If memory serves, these were generally inferior to crossbows in many or most respects.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby raphfrk » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:14 am

DevilDan wrote:Firearms aren't simple devices. Unless he's a student of them, Parson, however intelligent, would at best end up with something like a harquebus. If memory serves, these were generally inferior to crossbows in many or most respects.


Apparently, the advantage of the initial firearms wasn't that they were better than archery, it was that they were much easier to use.

It didn't result in an increase in power, it resulted in a decrease in the training required to achieve that power.

Parson has already started down the road of "what happens if I have untrained units throw rocks?", so he is looking for a way to increase the power of basic units.

To make a firearm, they need some kind of explosive. Actually, I wonder if chemistry is something that hippiemancers can do. He needs an explosive powder, it doesn't technically need to be gunpowder. Maybe one of the magic types can make explosive pellets or something.

Also, maybe a twoll can make swords into cylinders to form the barrel.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:12 am

raphfrk wrote:Apparently, the advantage of the initial firearms wasn't that they were better than archery, it was that they were much easier to use.

It didn't result in an increase in power, it resulted in a decrease in the training required to achieve that power.

Parson has already started down the road of "what happens if I have untrained units throw rocks?", so he is looking for a way to increase the power of basic units.

Excellent point about evening skills. The question then becomes whether Erf allows units who don't usually have range-attack skills to hit anything at all. It could force you to miss completely 95 percent of the time out of principle, for example.

We do know of one chemical reaction used as a weapon: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F108.jpg
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby doran » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:41 pm

DevilDan wrote:Moose, the solution to your quandary is deceptively simple. If you don't want to repeat yourself constantly about a theory, start a relevant thread on the subject. Then we'll have a neat little area dedicated to that question, one to which others who try to discuss this in other threads can be pointed. More importantly, this will be a clearinghouse for all relevant theories and facts, leading to more informed, efficient, and hopefully constructive debate.


You could also put your theories on the wiki and put a link to them in your sig.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:35 am

doran wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Moose, the solution to your quandary is deceptively simple. If you don't want to repeat yourself constantly about a theory, start a relevant thread on the subject. Then we'll have a neat little area dedicated to that question, one to which others who try to discuss this in other threads can be pointed. More importantly, this will be a clearinghouse for all relevant theories and facts, leading to more informed, efficient, and hopefully constructive debate.


You could also put your theories on the wiki and put a link to them in your sig.

or i could do what i did do and cease to participate in speculative discussions in this forum. i'll speculate in everything else erfworld as i said , and i'll react to the comic/update here. if something isn't in the comic/update then i'm not reacting to it.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:59 am

Well, yes, that is an option I'd never considered.
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