Summer Update - 025

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby HandofShadows » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:45 am

QuothTheRaven wrote:My point of view is that anyone who is willing to betray her loyalties once, will most certainly betray them again.


Actually Wanda didn't betray her loyalties. She never intended Faq to be destroyed. When she goaded him into attacking Faq it was with the expectation that Stanley would get wiped out and that would leave the ArkenHammer in Wanda's hands (Wanda had been fortold to wield and Arkentool, but no mention of which one.). Wanda did screw up very badly and her acts certainly count as criminal, but it was not a betryal of loyalties.

As for why Wanda isn't around much at the moment, there are a number of reasons. She likely is running some interference for Parson and company. Also with all the Decrypt Stanley is nervouse and she will need to stay close to prevent more "accidents" from happening. So I don't think she is intentional ignoring Parson and Co. She took the time to tell Parson a large peice of her story (and one where she does not come off to good either) after getting the Pliers. And she clearly was feeling very bad when talking about it as well, this in a moment of HUGE triumph (put a huge damper on the mood). I suspect Wanda feels Parson is one of the few people she can really talk to.

Also from the story telling side Wanda took up a lot of time at the end of the last arc and she needs a little time off camera so other peope can have their turn. ;)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:12 am

in response to bargamer:

i've theorised before they simply unlock latent stats in some units. predictamnacy may have some parlour tricks about it as well eg seeing the normaly invisible stats such as loyalty and attune level skills. if so a predictamncer would look at wanda see said stats and tell her she would one day attune. she would also see wanda's razor thin faq loyalty and warn banhammer that his kingdom would one day fall.

wanda being a croakamnacer is the reason she has decrypt now. we simply wait to see if rob explains how the mechanics of that work. it can go one of three ways. wanda is a croakamancer and the tool boosts her natural talents, the tool is a croakamancer and said tool adds decrypt to whomever can attune it, the tool and the unit both need to match skillsets.

my money is on the tool boosts the units abilities/ unlocks abilities the unit always had but only functioned with the artifact bonus.

your free to believe whatever you want, until the page stating the opposite occurs for any theory they are all just as likely. however if they are alligned to certain magics i'd be very surprised as stanley's tool seems to be as schizophrenic as he is.

also i think the fate thing is poor wording. fate magic is a magic in erf i don't think the tools have even a slight passing attachment to that table at all. i also speculate there will be at least a dozen of them. attuned to every class and type of unit from grunt class piker (stanley) mancer (wanda) strategist (charlie), who knows from here, but i'd guess one royal, one warlord, one noble, if they exist one peasant. a council of the various classes across erfworld as they popped, to reform the world based on their experiences.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:27 am

HandofShadows wrote:
QuothTheRaven wrote:My point of view is that anyone who is willing to betray her loyalties once, will most certainly betray them again.


Actually Wanda didn't betray her loyalties. She never intended Faq to be destroyed.


parson couldn't give up on GK until he exhausted every idea he had, he was compelled to defend the city to the death if need be. as were all the units of their side. wanda was able to willingly invite an enemy warlord to her city. her loyalty is suspect at best and any leader who trusts her is at risk of suffering the black widow. she has said in exact words she is loyal to fate magic. NOT stanley. she has advised parson the best way to control stanley is to let him have your way. she drugged guards of her own side and used suggestion on them. she revealed plans to jillian as much as jillian revealed them to her. she's a huge freakin security hole. and now she has an army.

you don't give wanda authority in the real world, you certainly don't let her raise an army (pardon the pun)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby teratorn » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:46 am

moose o death wrote:off topic but what in the heck is that thing melhelix?

It looks like an aye-aye, a particularly ugly looking one.

Sizemore and Maggie are a couple now? I sort of expected an image of them holding hands
and kissing at the end of the update.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby mole » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:15 am

It's a bit surprising to hear that Stanley's warlords got to choose their own livery...
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:15 am

Wow, a wealth of information... perfect timing, considering how much I've been obsessing about some of these related design, motif, and architectural issues.

So most city designs come from the dirtamancer, if one is present? (I assume a resident dirtamancer isn't usually linked to anyone else, whether at construction/upgrade time or otherwise.)

QuothTheRaven wrote:What was described as dangerous, unpredictable, and costly in the beginning is now being used more and more. Is it possible there is an addictive element to the caster's link? And if so, is it perhaps possible that the casters will find it easier and easier to do it as time goes on?


If memory serves, it's three-caster links that are most problematic. Two-caster links are probably far more stable and more commonly used.

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Interesting update. To change clothes, a unit needs magic. Question: where did Stanley get his bathrobe? Did he order it from a dollamancer? Seems like a waste of resources.


Stanley could have gotten his robes from a twoll perhaps. Or, as overlord, he figure he could afford a little luxury or comfort.
Last edited by DevilDan on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Anton Gaist » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:18 am

That bit about how it wasn't just Sizemore that designed the city but instead all of them got me thinking. That certainly explains the multiple styles, Asian and European, in the construction. As for why they chose soviet-looking banners for the Tool's livery, I hope we hear a bit of that in the next update.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby moose o death » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:23 am

i would say having a dirtamancer is rare, but it highlights how widely spread caster skillsets reach. dirtamancy can construct golems, assists in mining. and can boost construction time and reduce costs significantly on city upgrades. such a diverse set of abilities surely carries across to other skillsets.

eg we now know dollamancy is also responsible for clothingand an implication was made that dollamancy can make magical items as well. further implying a unit can wear unique items with buffs

[speculative]a trimancer between a foolamancer a dollamancer and a thinkamancer could create something akin to stealth armour for an elite unit of an army. [/speculative]
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:25 am

Spot wrote:The track record for survival of people who follow Stanley's orders to the letter, with 100% loyalty is something like 3000 deaths to 2 survivors (Sizemore and Maggie)... and the only reason that those two survived is because they had another two people with either questionable loyalty to Stanley, or who could think light years outside the box, to save their bacon for them.


That, and the fact that they weren't put in battle by Stanley. Parson did that.

Spot wrote:Of the two, Maggie at least, has started to realize this. Sizemore, unfortunately, remains too loyal to Stanley for his own good.


Sizemore has hidden depths.

Spot wrote:Stanley is an arrogant, uneducated, unteachable, petty, ego-driven little man who thinks that he's on a legendary mission from the gods and destined to rule... but can't even figure out for himself why appointing stupid prettyboys to Warlord positions might be a bad idea. And he still can't figure it out after losing every single Warlord that he appointed... with the sole exception of the one he just demoted. And replaced. By the prettyboy loser of the last battle.


He is learning, though very, very slowly.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:07 pm

mole wrote:It's a bit surprising to hear that Stanley's warlords got to choose their own livery...


Nah - Wanda changed their livery after she uncroaked them, just like she did w/ the units that got Hamster's livery.

Wanda just has a sick sense of humor. :)
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:18 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
mole wrote:It's a bit surprising to hear that Stanley's warlords got to choose their own livery...


Nah - Wanda changed their livery after she uncroaked them, just like she did w/ the units that got Hamster's livery.

Wanda just has a sick sense of humor. :)

Actually, Manpower already had his distinctive and attention-grabbing livery prior to his face-first meeting with an arrow:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F002.jpg
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Alisa » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:20 pm

I had fun reading 25... I was giggling after reading the forum spec about dollamancers were before this update. But of course, they're dollzmakers!
I think if I were in erfworld, I'd be a dollamancer. ^__^

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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Jallorn » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:12 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
mole wrote:It's a bit surprising to hear that Stanley's warlords got to choose their own livery...


Nah - Wanda changed their livery after she uncroaked them, just like she did w/ the units that got Hamster's livery.

Wanda just has a sick sense of humor. :)


No, look back on the first page. Manpower has the target design.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby raphfrk » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:18 pm

moose o death wrote:If so a predictamncer would look at wanda see said stats and tell her she would one day attune.


I wonder if the Faq Predictamancer was particularly good.

your free to believe whatever you want, until the page stating the opposite occurs for any theory they are all just as likely. however if they are alligned to certain magics i'd be very surprised as stanley's tool seems to be as schizophrenic as he is.


The other option is that they "find" and attune to people who happen to have similar traits.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:24 pm

raphfrk wrote:I wonder if the Faq Predictamancer was particularly good.


Good enough to help protect Faq until the side was betrayed and good enough to predict Faq's fall and Wanda's attunement to an arkentool.

raphfrk wrote:
your free to believe whatever you want, until the page stating the opposite occurs for any theory they are all just as likely. however if they are alligned to certain magics i'd be very surprised as stanley's tool seems to be as schizophrenic as he is.


The other option is that they "find" and attune to people who happen to have similar traits.

It's weaknesses are clarity of purpose and personal taste in friends.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Lothmar » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:28 pm

All the old warlords had various 'target' symbols, like you would find in a shooting gallery.

Also, during the attack on the garrison; we see that the units under those two uncroaked warlords (and those warlords) are the humanoid rings to center mass targets as well, while the uncroaked jetstone units had hamstard crests on the armor. So I believe livery is set when the unit is originally created and doesnt change from that point for base units. (though possibly for a cost (but I dont know why they would have multiple uniform styles if it was free to change your sides uniform to match the most current style.))
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Spot » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:05 pm

DevilDan wrote:
Sizemore has hidden depths.




True. He does. I predict that Sizemore's loyalty won't waver at all... until the day that it snaps completely. Once it does snap, I'm guessing that Sizemore will (a) be understod to be much more powerful than previously revealed, and (b) will probably become much more of a zealot (though in a different direction) than decrypted Ansom became.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Winged » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:34 pm

On the link, I think it was harmless because it was only a two person thing, it's when three are linked that it has been clamed to be dangerous. ken could have been anyone, he might have died countless turns ago for all we know.
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Jallorn » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:23 pm

Has anyone considered that they might still be linked?
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Re: Summer Update - 025

Postby Glenn » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:25 pm

Towards the end of the battle for Gobwin Knob, Parson took some very large risks in the hope of ultimately achieving victory. He did so, of course, because the situation seemed so desperate that that even the most radical measures seemed justified. Those who criticize Wanda for her role in the destruction of Faq should remember that she also was faced with a nearly hopeless no win situation. The fact that Wanda took a huge risk with regards to Faq doesn't prove she was disloyal to Faq, any more than the fact that Parson took a huge risk with Gobwin Knob proves he is disloyal. After all, suppose Wanda was strongly loyal to Faq or King Banhammer? If she were, how would she have acted differently, given the fact that she knew that there was a prophecy that said Faq would inevitably fall? Wouldn't a loyal Wanda be justified, under those circumstances, in taking horrible risks, if it seemed to her the only way she could possibly defeat or mitigate the prophecy and save Faq? She may have thought that by gaining Stanley's hammer, she could either preserve, or more likely, rebuild Faq. She may have thought, if a large army destroys Faq, it will never rise again. But if Stanley, acting alone, destroys Faq and then dies, leaving me the hammer, then Jillian and I can then rebuild Faq.
Last edited by Glenn on Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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