Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby StClair » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:25 am

Dr Pepper wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Hahahaha, "Diversion Beast."


Heh. Reminds me of an incident in a comedy where someone points and says "look, a distraction!".

Same here.
The similar "look, Elvis!" has both less and more associated cultural baggage, given that no one on Erf knows of Mr. Presley but the Titans, apparently, all look like him.

and "Why so serious?" made me (what else) grin. :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Infidel » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:07 am

Dr Pepper wrote:Ok, this kind of bothers me:

A hefty-looking woman in a green and yellow robe of satin, with a dark brown skin complexion


This is the second time skin color has been mentioned and the other was for Uhuru.In Erfworld, people come in a lot of different colors, so why is only one mentioned in descriptions?


Let's not lose our objectivity here. Any world where the inhabitants identify the things around them pick up on significant visual differences. From what we have seen, there have not been a lot of different colors of people in Erf, rather a lot of different shades of white. Most people don't identify hundreds of different shades of a color by name. But a difference of color will merit mention. There is a big different from being a white person with bluish tinted skin and blue skin. And before some artist tries to come on and claim brown isn't a color, I'm talking about the English word color definition 1.a., not artist jargon color.

You seem to be implying that she should have seen people of significant color in portal park, why didn't she mention them? If that is where you were going, then the answer is simply--They were not significant to the story.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:07 am

About a quarter to a third of this thread may be summarized as "look! It's a brown complexioned Diversion Beast!"

jkosta wrote:We're struggling to find a joke now?


Apparently; the one served is too obvious :)
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby 0beron » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:42 am

Sixty wrote:Faq had at least half a dozen casters?


Wanda said Faq was pretty weak, so I figured that'd be enough.
"Wow, was she wrong! Faq had a whole lot of casters, and they had defense spells up the wazoo. I could never have taken that city with fifteen dwagons. Never! I lost more than ten on approach, shot down from the tower." Text Update 27

"Rest of their casters I guess croaked or got away to the Magic Kingdom. But hey we got two of the best ones out of it." He put down the Arkenhammer and looked distant for a moment. Text Update 27


Yup it would seem they did. And given how effective they were in combat, I'd hazard a guess that there was at least one who was very combat-oriented to have powered up the Tower Defenses. Marie might have been manning the defenses just like Delphi did. Also, since Stanley also says Wanda had arranged for Jack to be away, that leaves only Wanda and Marie in the city (of casters we know) and 2 doesn't exactly qualify "a whole lot" haha.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Saladman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:Then why mention it with Uhura?


Well now you're just trolling.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Housellama » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:58 pm

Saladman wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:Then why mention it with Uhura?


Well now you're just trolling.


/agree

Let's back up for a second and really think about this. The only times that Rob has given us more than simple vague details about a caster (or a unit in general) is when he's making a cultural reference. When he does that, he gives us enough detail to properly identify the reference, whatever detail that may be.

And let's be realistic and acknowledge fact. Uhura's skin isn't white. Neither is Marie's. If he had left out that detail, how many people would have been able to properly identify Uhura? I know I would have missed it. Does that make me racist? No, it just means that I, like everyone else, note pertinent details about a person's appearance. Now if I assumed that she liked watermelon and fried chicken and was inclined to rob Sizemore instead of just have a roll in the hay, THAT might make me racist. But simply noting the color of a person's skin (No matter what color that is) just means I'm observant.

The fact that Rob mentioned it doesn't mean anything other than he wanted his readers to get that detail. Don't read too much into it. Reverse racism is still racism.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby 0beron » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:35 pm

Just a little side note to break up this annoying skin color debate....
BOTH times skin color is mentioned are IN TEXT UPDATES. It's kinda hard to describe things in text format without, ya know, using WORDS.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Kreistor » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:02 pm

If I want political correctness I'll watch Disney.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Goshen » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:35 pm

El_Chupacabra wrote:Which begs the question: will we ever see other kingdoms with Croakamancers over the course of the story?

Now, there is a fair question. Are Croakamancers quite rare? Otherwise, why isn't Wanda in touch with some? Or are the Thinkamancers just unusually clubby, and most 'mancers forming relationships more often across disciplines.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Housellama » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:45 pm

Goshen wrote:
El_Chupacabra wrote:Which begs the question: will we ever see other kingdoms with Croakamancers over the course of the story?

Now, there is a fair question. Are Croakamancers quite rare? Otherwise, why isn't Wanda in touch with some? Or are the Thinkamancers just unusually clubby, and most 'mancers forming relationships more often across disciplines.


From the reaction Wanda is getting, I imagine that Croakamancers don't go out of the way to advertise themselves. If I was PNG, I wouldn't exactly put a big sign on my doorstep and go out of my way to keep up with who's coming and going. Plus, I doubt that there are many Croakamancers in the MK. They are one of the more useful disciples for combat, so I'm guessing they stay employed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby multilis » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:17 am

Housellama wrote:From the reaction Wanda is getting, I imagine that Croakamancers don't go out of the way to advertise themselves.

Elves don't like gobwins, and gobwins don't like elves, and lots of similar situations with natural allies.

So Healomancers may not like croakomancers, and vice versa as well. In other words if you were a healomancer going through magic kingdom you may get opposite reactions as Wanda... those that like wanda may dislike you and in reverse.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby drachefly » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:49 am

Housellama wrote:They are one of the more useful disciples for combat, so I'm guessing they stay employed.


... until they die. A thinkamancer could be much less bound to stand and defend to the last because they don't have those last-chance abilities.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby sleepymancer » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:37 am

multilis wrote:
Housellama wrote:From the reaction Wanda is getting, I imagine that Croakamancers don't go out of the way to advertise themselves.

Elves don't like gobwins, and gobwins don't like elves, and lots of similar situations with natural allies.

So Healomancers may not like croakomancers, and vice versa as well. In other words if you were a healomancer going through magic kingdom you may get opposite reactions as Wanda... those that like wanda may dislike you and in reverse.


This is certainly true for dirtomancers. Well, true to the extent that people like Sizemore in part because his discipline is needed, not that there is an inversion to their feelings about croakamancy going on.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Mrtyuh » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 am

Dr Pepper wrote:This is the second time skin color has been mentioned and the other was for Uhuru.In Erfworld, people come in a lot of different colors, so why is only one mentioned in descriptions?

Actually, it's the third time. When Jillian was talking about working for Shelby the Cobra, she described him as a brown Stanley with a beard.

Dr Pepper wrote:Heh. Reminds me of an incident in a comedy where someone points and says "look, a distraction!".

Doubly so for me, since the first time I read the update, I read odious as obvious. I thought Jack sure was cocky, telling Wanda he was going to distract her before distracting her.

Saladman wrote:I salute you sir, for an idea both original and to my liking. Something serious made Marie sit up and take notice anyway, and I'm not sure the prospect of picking up another caster for the bubble kingdom's philosopher's court is enough in itself for that.

Plus I've been looking for an alternative to the idea that Faq's mercs would put the boot to Goodminton and Jillian would sweep Wanda away. We never have had any foreshadowing of that, and it would be a pretty precious coincidence for what's supposed to be a world wider than most sides are aware of. I haven't understood why the idea's gained as much traction as it has.

Thank you. As for why the theory has gained so much traction, it is probably because it is the simplest. We know Wanda ends up at Faq. We know Faq sends out forces to work as mercenaries. By having those mercenaries capture Wanda, it gets her where we know she'll be in one step. Without any other information, any other theories are just idle speculation.

ftl wrote:I *loved* the Diversion Beast. Followed by the Displacement, or whatever it is Jack did to make them invisible.

I think Jack just made them invisible. He seems capable of it, since that is what Jillian believed Jack had done with himself and Stanely when she thought him dismounted. He can make two units invisible. Larger or more units needed to be disguised or displaced.

Kaed wrote:I have to admit, this younger Jack is a lot less annoying that current day. He doesn't spend so much time rambling in vague philosophies. :I

Jack's mind was broken and incompletely reassembled after the link was broken. There is probably a distinct difference before and after. The Jack we say discussing love with Wanda at Faq was different as well.

El_Chupacabra wrote:Of course, they could just fake a body during a climatic battle and cart her off, but it would be interesting if they had to evade capture...

We know Jack never went out with the mercenary force, since Faq couldn't afford to be without his services, so they couldn't use Foolamancy to fake a body, unless Jack made a scroll. Maybe Faq has a Dittomancer. Could a Dittomancer copy a body?

vintermann wrote:I think Faq doesn't exist yet. How a bubble kingdom comes to exist is a rather crucial question, and one I hope to see answered in the prequel.

It is almost certain they both serve Faq now, since they are both wearing green, Faq's color. While I'm sure there are other sides that use that color, if Rob wanted to indicate they served a different side, he would have used a different color to avoid confusion. So, I'm pretty sure Faq exists, and both Jack and Marie serve there. On the other hand, it may be possible Faq isn't a Bubble Kingdom yet, and we may see that change happen, although I doubt it.

0beron wrote:Yup it would seem they did. And given how effective they were in combat, I'd hazard a guess that there was at least one who was very combat-oriented to have powered up the Tower Defenses. Marie might have been manning the defenses just like Delphi did. Also, since Stanley also says Wanda had arranged for Jack to be away, that leaves only Wanda and Marie in the city (of casters we know) and 2 doesn't exactly qualify "a whole lot" haha.

I wonder if one of those casters was a Shockamancer. From what Caesar said, Shockamancers may be more effective at spelling up a tower than other casters. Since I'm speculating, maybe Carpools Shockamancer came from Faq.

Goshen wrote:Now, there is a fair question. Are Croakamancers quite rare? Otherwise, why isn't Wanda in touch with some? Or are the Thinkamancers just unusually clubby, and most 'mancers forming relationships more often across disciplines.

I think it may be due to the fact that Croakamancers are field casters. Their abilities are pretty worthless just sitting in the capital. They need to be in the field to reanimate corpses. They need to lead uncroaked to give them their bonus. Since they are most useful in the field, there is probably a higher likelihood of them being croaked or captured in combat. The permanent residents of the Magic Kingdom are mostly, if not all, casters that became barbarians and fled there when their sides fell. In order to do that, they had to be in the capital at the time. For that reason, Thinkamancers and Lookamancers would be well represented, since they can fulfill their functions best from the capital. Dollamancers do lend a bonus to cloth golems, but they also function well from the capital. Those are the types of casters that would make up the majority of the permanent residents. Still, we do know that some types of casters are rarer than others. Dirtamancers are very rare. Also, there is a stigma to being a barbarian Predictamancer in the Magic Kingdom, so any Predictamancers whose side falls may prefer capture or croaking. So, Croakamancers could be rare, like Dirtamancers, or they simply lack the opportunity to flee to the Magic Kingdom in numbers.

She had managed to speak at length only with a Dollamancer, a Thinkamancer, and a Carnymancer, but they'd given more than enough to think about. (And the Dollamancer had sold her new raiment.)

We just witnessed the creation of a monster. Wanda is the biggest clotheshorse we've seen in Erfworld. She is about the only unit that has a different outfit every turn. Some turns she has multiple outfits. This is where it all began. Of course the Dollamancer was happy to talk with her. Anything to make a sale. I wonder if the Dollamancer was Ken.

Wanda was disappointed. She had a Predictamancer to talk to at home, however awkward and difficult things with Delphie had become in the five turns since the air battle.

It looks like the honeymoon's over. For two turns, with their "allies" threatening the capital, they managed to put aside their difference and work well together. Their relationship has since deteriorated. Not that I really expected anything different, but here we have conformation. I also find it ironic that past Wanda is so blase about talking to a Predictamancer. I could picture present Wanda acting like Katara with Aunt Wu if she had an opportunity, seeking advice on the most trivial of decisions.

Aunt Wu reading Katara's palm, "...and then you'll have your third great-grandchild before quietly passing away in your sleep. Is that enough information for you?"

Katara, beaming, "Wow! Thanks Aunt Wu."

Katara gets up to leave before stopping, "Oh wait! One more thing...how warmly should I dress tomorrow?"

Aunt Wu, exasperated, "You want me to do a reading for that?"

Katara nods.

*Later*

Aunt Wu pushing Katara out the door, "...and you'll be fine as long as you've got a scarf. Bye-bye, now."

Katara, holding the door open, "Okay, okay, but one more thing."

Aunt Wu, "Alright, what is it?"

Katara, "Should I eat a mango or a papaya for breakfast tomorrow?"

Aunt Wu, aggravated, "Papaya!"

Aunt Wu slams the door.

Katata, dejected, kicks the ground, "Aw...I hate papaya."

*Later*

Katara, at a fruit stand, "Ugh, papaya, please."


I wonder if we'll be cutting to Faq now. This would be a good place for a transition if that's what Rob is planning.
Last edited by Mrtyuh on Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Whispri » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:55 pm

Goshen wrote:
El_Chupacabra wrote:Which begs the question: will we ever see other kingdoms with Croakamancers over the course of the story?

Now, there is a fair question. Are Croakamancers quite rare? Otherwise, why isn't Wanda in touch with some? Or are the Thinkamancers just unusually clubby, and most 'mancers forming relationships more often across disciplines.

Aside from the violent death problem, I think it's quite likely that a lot (perhaps even most) freshly popped Croakamancers are Disbanded that very turn. Or exiled to the Magic Kindom which amounts to the same thing (seriously, no levels, no contacts, no hope). I actually find it pretty hard to see a Croakamancer surviving for long as a barb under any circumstance, what with the one-trick pony thing they have going and the reduced market for their talents.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Saladman » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:37 pm

I don't know if I'd go as far as most croakamancers being disbanded, but I take the point. Imagine if Jetstone popped one, especially at the height of their powers; they'd at least be tempted.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby 0beron » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:23 pm

We have seen time and again that Casters are TREASURED. Even sides that are not magic-oriented respect the value of Casters, so the idea of disbanding a caster after spending so long popping them strikes me as highly unlikely. I imagine most sides would react like Firebaugh did, with a degree of disgust but ultimately throwing their hands up and saying "oh well"
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Raza » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:29 pm

I concede with Oberon.

I also doubt casters regularly disband in the Magic Kingdom. We have indicators that the common price of mercenary work significantly exceeds upkeep; I imagine that absolutely any caster would be able to find regular work by reducing their asking price far enough, or in extreme cases by simply offering to turn to a side who'll have them. Or they could simply make and sell scrolls as a way of bypassing their range limitations.

Croakamancers might die in the field doing merc work, but they'd have the same chances at gaining levels and desirability as they'd have with their original side. Being released into the magic kingdom is an almost entirely favorable deal.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Mrtyuh » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:50 pm

I also concur with 0beron. Casters are simply too valuable to disband just because you don't like the type. At the very least, a side would try to trade the caster to another for something of equal value.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 021

Postby Sixty » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:26 am

Did my post get deleted? Maybe I just hit preview by accident and went somewhere else without looking to see if it actually posted.

Anyways, I said I wasn't so sure that Faq had six casters based on that snippet from Stanley. Faq only has 3 cities and is a very small side by all measures, I don't think you'd need six casters for it to be considered "a lot" especially since one of the largest sides we know, Jetstone, has 4 casters, so a side as small as Faq having even 3 seems like a lot. As for the tower being spelled up hard, there is no reason to believe that it couldn't have just been the casters we know about doing it over a long period of time (especially since Wanda didn't seem to have a lot to do in Faq from what we currently know and that Faq hadn't gotten in any fights in a long time giving the casters plenty of time to throw a bunch of spells on said tower.) It's possible Faq had other casters we don't know about, but I dunno about 6 or more, that seems like an incredibly huge amount for such a small side.
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