Summer Update - 036

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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:27 am

Jack is dressed as a pimp, hillarious. I recall somone being displeased about there being no jack, well there ya go.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Alluvian_Est-Endrati » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:04 am

Should not this update have been titled "Fall Update - 001"? The first day of Fall was September 22nd after all. :twisted:

Now one must of course wonder if Parson's suggestion to the Tool about claiming new Dwagons was about mere self-preservation/changing the topic or if something else, such as his Duty to the Tool, were responsible. A complex system what with all the 'natural' mystical forces in-play.

I wonder if any of the other 'sides' make use of their city structures any more than the Knob does. It makes me wonder if their use would confer some kind of benefit of some kind. For example the use of the Ampletheater could, perhaps, help spawn Foolamancers or Hippiemancers or the like.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby raphfrk » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:01 am

Alluvian_Est-Endrati wrote:I wonder if any of the other 'sides' make use of their city structures any more than the Knob does. It makes me wonder if their use would confer some kind of benefit of some kind. For example the use of the Ampletheater could, perhaps, help spawn Foolamancers or Hippiemancers or the like.


Jack doesn't seem very interested. I wonder how they found out about the warlord effect for increasing output of the city. Maybe it was just by accident and slowly the knowledge spread.

It could very easily be that other sequences are possible to grant other bonuses.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Mr. Goodwraith » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:37 am

Random thoughts:

I had been wondering what the point of farms was; I'm glad Rob explained. By analogy with the pig-to-bacon progression, I suppose stalks of wheat appear, growing larger and fuller over a few turns, and then bags of flour pop in the larder; berry and apple trees flower, the flowers turn into berries and apples, and then fruit baskets pop in the larder; and so on? Does it work the same way with forests -- if you have a sawmill and/or lumberjack units, pine trees grow and then lumber pops that Stuffamancers can turn into decorative furniture and/or seige towers?

I don't suppose Erfworld pops scavengers or decomposers, because dead stuff doesn't stick around long enough for them to eat.

How, exactly, did the Magic Kingdom come to be? Unless it was there from the very start, or unless it had a powerful magic-using king who decided to do some sociopolitical engineering, how did casters manage to seize control of it and populate it densely enough to be left alone?
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Anton Gaist » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:48 am

Alluvian_Est-Endrati wrote:I wonder if any of the other 'sides' make use of their city structures any more than the Knob does. It makes me wonder if their use would confer some kind of benefit of some kind. For example the use of the Ampletheater could, perhaps, help spawn Foolamancers or Hippiemancers or the like.


In a city with Royals and Nobles, I can imagine them attending a play of some sort. Maybe a reenactment of past battles, or maybe a concert of some kind.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Hari Seldon » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:02 pm

I don't suppose Erfworld pops scavengers or decomposers, because dead stuff doesn't stick around long enough for them to eat.

Not true about the scavengers. In real life, scavengers find prey every day (unless they're not birds or mammals so they need even less food than that, more like food every few weeks or months) to eat and if they behave similarly in Erfworld they could get prey to eat every day (and if they have to tag along stealtily behind predators/armies hex-by-hex or sit by death hotspots like Dungeon Crawling areas or something, so be it) ...

As for the decomposers, we don't know. Every dead person we've seen was uncroked or decrypted by Wanda, we haven't seen the natural decomposition process (ex: perhaps dead bodies that are "cleaned out" for the next turn might leave some fungus or at least compost/+1 to soil quality behind).
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Joe Falco » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:26 pm

One thing that caught my eye was when Jack pointed to the pair of Decrypted soldiers standing in the street away from Parson and Jack. Now that skulls are apparently the new "shackles", one must wonder if Wanda, even with the huge advantage she has, still might feel the desire to make sure she knows everything that is going on around her; using spies to keep eyes and ears around sensitive targets and gauge whether their thoughts and actions might become a hindrance or a danger to the Mistress's plans. I'm not saying that those two soldiers are actually spies, keeping their eyes on Parson's actions, but would it really be that much of a stretch to believe Wanda isn't above using such tactics?

I'm suddenly reminded of natural thinkamancy. Could Wanda, being the holder of the Arkenpliers and the Mistress of an ever-growing Decrypted army, also hold the innate magic of natural thinkamancy over her units just like a Ruler can? At any given moment, could a decrypted unit's thoughts and memories, what they've seen and heard, be open to Wanda like a book like Vinny and his Doombats? If so, Parson would have one more thing to look over his shoulder.

Well, I think we've all known since the last update that with Stanley capable of rebuilding dwagon forces loyal to him, he might stand some chance against Wanda and her Decrypts should the latter decide Fate wants her to overthrow Stanley. And that only happened because Parson did what his talent demanded of him. If Wanda wanted to remove a powerful force on Stanley's side, she would do well to eliminate Parson as she well knows his abilities. Either that or croak and then decrypt Parson to bend his will toward Wanda's service. Parson knows Wanda well enough that switching to her side would not make his situation any better than his current one under Stanley's rule.

Decrypts to the left and dwagons on the right, Parson is stuck in the middle of the inevitable and what has Parson done to change that situation? He's only survived to this point, and he has done nothing to increase his own power. If Parson truly wants to assert his status as a player rather than a game piece, he's going to need power. Giving the idea to Stanley on how to increase his dwagon forces is not going to give Parson any power unless Parson is able to overthrow Stanley and take the Arkenhammer for himself. Helping Stanley won't give Parson any more standing with the Tool, given Stanley's tendency to think only of himself, unless, like Wanda, he can carefully manipulate Stanley to his whims.

I'm sure this is a long and rambling post I've made and perhaps nine-tenths of what I wrote is already common knowledge to most of the readers, but I felt like communicating this anyway. I hope I haven't put anyone to sleep yet.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Infidel » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:38 pm

Hrm, I can't help but wonder at the significance of Jack calling Parson "My good lord" several times. Considering that he didn't try to butter up Stanley with the same treatment, it doesn't seem to be flattery but perhaps an honest assessment. Which also leads one to wonder about the whole riddle thing.

I think speaking in riddles is just staying in practice with Jack. The way he clarified when Parson said, "So you don't know?" indicated to me that Jack isn't always being deliberately evasive, nor necessarily trying to be "deep" to provoke thought, but just staying in practice. I say this because the way Stanley reacted to Jack's riddles implied that he didn't talk that way before, but because Jack can clearly remember the time that he was linked and recovering, he apparently found some benefit in speaking in riddles, so he wants to continue enjoying the benefits of either confusing the listener or making them take his words more seriously. Whichever, now that his mind is back, it probably requires practice since it's not a natural ability.

One thing that caught my eye was when Jack pointed to the pair of Decrypted soldiers standing in the street away from Parson and Jack. Now that skulls are apparently the new "shackles", one must wonder if Wanda, even with the huge advantage she has, still might feel the desire to make sure she knows everything that is going on around her; using spies to keep eyes and ears around sensitive targets and gauge whether their thoughts and actions might become a hindrance or a danger to the Mistress's plans. I'm not saying that those two soldiers are actually spies, keeping their eyes on Parson's actions, but would it really be that much of a stretch to believe Wanda isn't above using such tactics?


My thought was maybe Wanda can use the pliers to see through her decrypted's eyes.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:53 pm

Steve-D wrote:That reminds me, did anyone figure out why Jack helped Stanley escape Jillian, way-back-when?

It wasn't explained by Wanda's backstory, in the end.


No, we didn't. I have theory, though.

Three times in Book 1 a unit was offered a chance to turn and change sides: Jillian to Wanda, Charlies to Parson, and Jillian again to Jack. Each time the offered was turned down, even though accepting it made more sense than refusing it. I propose that the Arkenhammer grants the weilder ultimate loyalty from those who serve him. I choose the word ultimate carefully and with a non-obvious meaning. I don't mean ultimate as an alternative to absolute obediance, like Wanda has from her uncroacked. Stanley's lieutenants hold him in nearly open contempt. Yet, when push comes to shove, and the moment of decision, they stay by him, and hence are ultimately loyal. They probably create a rationalization (self-satisfying, but ultimately erroneous) reason for why they do so, but it's the hammer talking.

Or, there is some backstory we don't know about.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:01 pm

Infidel wrote:My thought was maybe Wanda can use the pliers to see through her decrypted's eyes.

I think it's unlikely that Wanda would get that ability, since we haven't seen Stanley get such an ability with Dwagons.
However, I'm sure Wanda's Archons are filming and sending her any items that they might think she'd be interested.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Hatu » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:06 pm

Jack is a fascinating character to watch, so I enjoyed seeing him and Parson interact. But I do find it a little odd that Parson never considered the practical implications of giving Stanley a new army of dwagons. I could see him not realizing it when he first proposed it, sure. But several turns later is a long time not to have thought about it.

I really haven't found sulking Parson a particularly credible (or interesting) development, and this continues the trend. I can certainly see where Parson would be uncomfortable with causing so much 'real' death, but his reactions to it just seem inconsistent to me. He's veered back and forth between detached contemplation, careful determination, naive optimism and casual acceptance. Maybe it's an artifact of the snippets we see in the Summer Update format, but I wish I could follow his thought process.

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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Joe Falco » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:09 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Infidel wrote:My thought was maybe Wanda can use the pliers to see through her decrypted's eyes.

I think it's unlikely that Wanda would get that ability, since we haven't seen Stanley get such an ability with Dwagons.
However, I'm sure Wanda's Archons are filming and sending her any items that they might think she'd be interested.


Even if Wanda lacks a Natural Ability from ownership of the Arkenpliers to see and hear through her units, you're certainly right that the Archons could be filming everything they see that would be of interest to their Mistress. Archon cameras were rolling when Parson was taking his flying banana out for a spin. Do you think that Archons were doing that just to have something to look back on and laugh at night with their wild and sexy Archon slumber parties?

One could entertain that thought alone just for the wild and sexy Archon slumber parties, but methinks that Parson's activities were recorded for someone's benefit and I'm not thinking of Stanley.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:27 pm

What's keeping them from actually using some of the buildings? The amphitheatre would be a good place for Jack to give some performances. Archons would be good sexy assistants.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby shneekeythelost » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:39 pm

It occurs to me that Parson is becoming a Morale Case, which was one of the stipulations in the summoning spell. He doesn't want to do this whole 'war' thing anymore. I wonder how this is going to be resolved... or if the sword was the last piece which made him the 'perfect warlord' which was summoned, and destroying it caused him to be... an imperfect warlord?
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:45 pm

And now we have a little chitchat with Jack.

The descriptions of Erfworld's "mysteries" are so eerie.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:52 pm

shneekeythelost wrote:It occurs to me that Parson is becoming a Morale Case, which was one of the stipulations in the summoning spell.

By Morale Case, I read that as 'Don't give me someone who's going to obey the Letter and pervert the Spirit of the Law because they hate being here'.
Parson doesn't want to kill everyone, but he's still predisposed to be helpful whenever possible, and still seems to genuinely like Erfworld.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:06 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
shneekeythelost wrote:It occurs to me that Parson is becoming a Morale Case, which was one of the stipulations in the summoning spell.

By Morale Case, I read that as 'Don't give me someone who's going to obey the Letter and pervert the Spirit of the Law because they hate being here'.
Parson doesn't want to kill everyone, but he's still predisposed to be helpful whenever possible, and still seems to genuinely like Erfworld.

If GK is "growing on him," then we have some idea of what his general mood is. In fact, now that he's not likely to be croaked in the foreseeable future, I'd think that his appreciation for Erf in general may be waxing.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby raphfrk » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:20 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote: Yet, when push comes to shove, and the moment of decision, they stay by him, and hence are ultimately loyal. They probably create a rationalization (self-satisfying, but ultimately erroneous) reason for why they do so, but it's the hammer talking.


That is interesting. Also, Wanda, once attuned to the pliers might be immune. Thus as time passes, her previous rationalisations about why to stay loyal to Stanley would begin to break down.

Also, would that mean that Saline IV was also loyal (with rationalisations) to Stanley and that is why he made him heir. It could also explain the rebellion as the gobwins has a higher loyalty state to Stanley than to Saline.

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:What's keeping them from actually using some of the buildings? The amphitheatre would be a good place for Jack to give some performances. Archons would be good sexy assistants.


That could be one of the bonuses. For example, if you have a Jack + audience in the theatre, it gives a bonus to his casting.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Fantabulastic » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:57 pm

Holy boop, Jack is such a booping bad boop! I wish there was a spin-off with him in a coffee shop smoking cigarettes and saying profound things.
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Re: Summer Update - 036

Postby Joe Falco » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:10 pm

Fantabulastic wrote:Holy boop, Jack is such a booping bad boop! I wish there was a spin-off with him in a coffee shop smoking cigarettes and saying profound things.


As big as Gobwin Knob is and with all the different buildings it has now...what makes you think Jack hasn't already done so?
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