Summer Updates - 037

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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby MuthSera » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:11 pm

Graydon wrote:
SteveMB wrote:It occurs to me that His Toolship doesn't seem to have any obvious "signs" of being anything other than a somewhat nebbishy everyunit pikeman. Perhaps it's different for non-royal Overlords, and perhaps that's one of the factors that contributed to (pre-Decrypt) Ansom's belief that he wasn't a genuine ruler.


Oh, probably.

It also makes me wonder -- no one not now on the Goblin Knob side ever saw Parson, right? Ansom saw him via thinkagram and foolamancy before he died, and is now decrypted and not communicating with his former side. I don't think anyone else did; they knew Stanley had a new warlord, but not who he was.

What would Vinnie's Signamancy take on Parson be? What, to an Erfworlder, does Parson look like he's for?

Vinny.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby imgran » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:42 pm

That's true isn't it? With the entire rest of the Radish Coalition command staff dead, unless some other warlord mentioned it in their dispatches home between Parson's interview with Ansom and the Impossible Dirtamancy Trap, only Vinny and Jillian know that Parson was spearheading the defensive of GK and not Stanley.

Of course if either one of them has really realized the implications of this, Don King probably knows too because he's questioned both of them.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby yay » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:30 pm

imgran wrote:That's true isn't it? With the entire rest of the Radish Coalition command staff dead, unless some other warlord mentioned it in their dispatches home between Parson's interview with Ansom and the Impossible Dirtamancy Trap, only Vinny and Jillian know that Parson was spearheading the defensive of GK and not Stanley.

Of course if either one of them has really realized the implications of this, Don King probably knows too because he's questioned both of them.


but even if TV or others know about parson, they can't attribute much to him. parson never took credit for the donut of doom, and the two survivors (Vinny and Jillian) did not participate in the siege of GK where most of his skill was displayed. so either they don't think much of him (his predacesors where probably decent stategist, but outnumbered) or they think too much of him for his suicidal volcano attack (it was genius but also dumb, the few remaining units could have just as easily been RC).
i don't think parson is on the radar of any other side besides charlescomm
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby robbak » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:44 pm

joosy wrote:Note: there is still no indication that Faq or Transylvito are aware of the Arkenpliers (although you would think that would be a major concern of what happened to them) much less that they are attuned to Wanda and that GK now has the powers of Decryption at its disposal. Hopefully Rob will convey the full horror that sweeps through the other sides when they realize what is happening..


Summer Updates – 037 wrote:Spotty reports said Stanley was somehow conquering every city he could reach.


No doubt about it: all they know is that Stanley has more force than they can explain. The force of the Arkenpliers is going to come as a shock. If they even knew what the pliers could do, the evidence would make it clear that they were in use: there would be no other explanation for the massive force that Stanley obviously has. As it is, they are just lost.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Glenn » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:48 pm

I wonder how big a role the new royal heir will play in Book Two? Given that both Jillian and Don will want the heir's level raised as quickly as possible, they will have a motive to keep the heir deeply involved in whatever fighting is going on, while also doing their best to insure the heir remains alive. That means that the heir might even become the central protagonist in Book 2, especially if he or she has some exceptional talents. If it's possible for Parson to be a hippymancer, I wonder if the heir might also be a caster of some type?

It seems likely to me that Transyvito and Fax will find themselves in Book 2 in a strategic situation similar to that which faced Gobwin Knob in book 1. They are hopelessly outnumbered, and need someone with the sheer genius needed to solve an apparently unsolvable problem. Parson was the genius in book 1, so maybe the heir will be the genius in book 2. Then in book 3, Parson and the heir face off against each other in a true 'clash of the titans'.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby StClair » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:57 pm

I've been meaning to register here for a while, and today's post finally pushed it over the line, mostly because I wanted to ask something I haven't seen being addressed yet:

Is anyone else really disturbed by the first paragraph's description of how Jillian is literally "growing into" her new role, physically becoming what she's resisted all this time? Clearly the Erfworlders think nothing of this sort of thing, but from our perspective...

"I'm afraid you've been downsized... well, technically you've been transferred to another position we have open. You're going to be a Worker. Over the next few weeks you'll find yourself getting bigger and stronger, and able to lift and carry more. However, you'll also forget how to read, type, or do more than basic math."
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby joosy » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:04 pm

Angband wrote: (making the reasonable assumption that Decrypted, like Uncroaked, can gain levels).[/spoiler]


I believe they can

See:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F055.jpg panel 9.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby robbak » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:17 pm

My suggestion for the reason that Don wants an heir popped is simple insurance. Jillian is not the type of person to keep out of physical danger, and Don is investing resources into reestablishing the side of FAQ. An off-site backup heir seems like a good idea to him.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Angband » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:22 pm

joosy wrote:I believe they can


Yes, that panel is how we know Uncroaked units can gain levels. The very reasonable assumption is that Decrypted can gain levels as well (since they are like uncroaked, only much better). But right now that is not yet confirmed.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby multilis » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:00 am

You need an heir so that either the heir or the king/queen can leave Faq without it going barbarian, that is why Stanley needs to return to Goblin Keep every turn after dragon hunting (no heir).

The anti-stanley forces need a replacement for Ansom to lead the fight against Stanley.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:09 am

Stanley's presence in the capital is not required to keep it from going to barbarian. He stays in the capital for safety, because his death will cause the destruction of his entire side.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:21 am

I know why King Don made that request/order. I mean I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure of myself. It's the same reason TV is paying to have Jillian as Queen of a fallen side when it makes so much more sense to just capture the cities. The reason is King Don is now a believer. It was easy to be lax and non-committal about royalty when there was no accepted alternative. Stanley changed that, I believe Don when he says he believes that. Now, he's firmly committed to royalty as the caretakers of Erfworld as appointed by the Titans. If Jillian is a Royal, than she must represents something sacred. In this light... troops don't matter, they're just "details," royalty does. Why order an heir? So royalty can continue to be the Titan's caretakers on Erfworld.

Also, Stanley knew about the razed FAQ cities and did nothing with them for a long time until he needed a place to run and hide. The assumption (with a little bit of finger crossing) is Stanley will revert to his old approach of ignoring FAQ. If he doesn't, the city is probably lost anyway. I'd bet an measure of wealth that all routes to FAQ have bats in them to ensure intelligence regarding an approaching army.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:37 am

multilis wrote:You need an heir so that either the heir or the king/queen can leave Faq without it going barbarian, that is why Stanley needs to return to Goblin Keep every turn after dragon hunting (no heir).

Actually, that's only if Stanley gets croaked. He can easily camp in the field - he did so before and after the ambush (veiled as blimps, then trees).
Stanley returns to GK because he is, quite sanely, afraid to die.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:39 am

StClair wrote:I've been meaning to register here for a while, and today's post finally pushed it over the line, mostly because I wanted to ask something I haven't seen being addressed yet:

Is anyone else really disturbed by the first paragraph's description of how Jillian is literally "growing into" her new role, physically becoming what she's resisted all this time? Clearly the Erfworlders think nothing of this sort of thing, but from our perspective...

"I'm afraid you've been downsized... well, technically you've been transferred to another position we have open. You're going to be a Worker. Over the next few weeks you'll find yourself getting bigger and stronger, and able to lift and carry more. However, you'll also forget how to read, type, or do more than basic math."


I mentioned that I was creeped out by Jillian's metamorphosis in the same way that an insect fed royal jelly will become a new queen. I also theorized once that being promoted might actually increase a unit's cognitive capabilities, for example.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby moose o death » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:51 am

the whole working full time really effects my ability to remain topical.

parson is not a hippiemancer until he says he is. he has no casting abilities at all. please for the love of the titans stop saying he is. janice is an idiot for tricking gullible erfworld readers as well as comic extra's.

my theory faq never fell is utterly dashed now. jillian has reclaimed the rubble so that ends that train of thought.

my biggest concern now is that everyone thinks the GK forces are strong and that the decryption army is an unstoppable juggernaut, they are probably mildly strong at the most. tv forces sent to GK were vinny and some bats. jetstone sent ansom (probably so he could claim a territory and start a new side), a level 10, and two warlords at lvl 5 and 2. there might have been others, but most likely all the sides involved sent lvl1-4 troops to level against the worlds most intellectually damaged overlord.

the decryption force is now reclaiming the lost cities. full of the lowliest level one garrisons rcc had to offer. not even leaving warlords behind.

the whole decryption force is running on a huge ego and a fast approaching brickwall. eventually they'll hit what has always stooped them getting the eleventh city. a vastly superior side not interested in expansion.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby KiltedNinja » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:54 am

Great update, nicely done.

...I'm noticing that quite a lot of people seem to be repeating each other, just wording things slightly differently. Seems that more and more people have an increasingly synchronitic view of the Erf world.. Gotta love the debates tho - it's pretty fantastic to be able to read all sorts of different understandings and perspectives of Erfworld.. Particularly more-so when I notice that there's a massive bunch of questions that I just don't ask, and am merely happy to wait until the next installment is revealed and continue reading...

Plus, I'm still holding out for Book 2 to be subtitled "For Faq's Sake"....
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby HandofShadows » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:01 am

Something just occured to me. Jillian said she would "know" if Stanley if Faq had been rebuilt. Does this mean that there is a connection of some kind between a unit and the location where it was poped? Or is that for a Royal and their capital. I bring this up because Wanda and Jack might know Faq has been rebuilt the same way that Jillian had kown it had not been rebuilt.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Roketter » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:11 am

In a game situation, this scenario is generally a win situation against computer players, since they have no idea how to handle geting annihilated then resurected and have their own now pseudo-undead troops used against them. They'll just stick to regular mechanics planing battles against the strike force they see, and not thinking of the danger of the strike force that WILL BE once it animates every last one of their defeated remains if they loose.

That's the situation the royals are in right now because they don't know what's going on. Once they notice, however, they'll likely try a different more brutal aproach, scorched land, disbanding garrisons out of reinforcement range that cannot kill units in Wanda's force so they can't be decrypted, and probably a single attack direced straight against wanda hoping to kill her and end the decrypting.

Basically, once the royals figure out the truth, Wanda's going to have pretty much the same problem that Stanley has. She'll be in command of a huge army that could de-pop should she die, so it'll likely be a lot more risk to take her to every battle.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby joosy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:54 am

on another note. I don't know if anyone has discussed this before, but I believe Casters may be popped just as casters. They eventually learn what their speciality is or they may be able to do several different disciplines(e.g. Wanda).

Once they find the one they are best at, that is how they are then defined even though they may be more than that.

It may be that casters are the ones who may recognize and possibly resent the roles imposed on them by Erfworld society/religion. That may explain the existence of the Magic Kingdom and the 'plot' to bring Parson to Erf in hopes that he would break the existing world of warfare.
Last edited by joosy on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby raphfrk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:30 am

gameboy1234 wrote:I play a lot of Sid Meier games (Civilization, Alpha Centauri) and this is a common problem when you build a huge stack and start rolling through enemy cities. Each city you conquer, you need to leave about two units behind to hold it against counter-attack. You can start building a garrison right away, but it takes a couple of turns, at least.


Yes, but decryption means that you have some garrison units. The effect means that the drain is much slower for GK.

It is quite possible that 1-2 cities could generate enough units to fill the holes left due to undecryptable units.

If the enemy doesn't take steps to prevent decryption, then Wanda can effectively flip the loyalty of a city to GK without taking significant losses.

So the end result is that your stack eventually runs out of steam and has to start playing defense in the cities you just conquered.


If the civ rules were that you could take a city without killing the the defenders (i.e. as long as you outnumber them 10 to 1, the city just swaps to you), then your attacking force is unlikely to run out of steam before you have all cities captured.

The drain in civ is that even if you lose no forces, you need to leave at least 1 unit in place for each city you capture. If you only needed to leave 1 unit every 10 cities, then you can keep going 20 times longer. Also, 20 cities would likely be able to replace the units lost faster than you lose them.

Angband wrote:Wanda and the Decrypted do not have this problem. Defeated enemy units are converted, so you wind up with a garrison as strong as the one you just defeated. Strong and fast enemy units can also be added to the strike force, and all the members of the strike force are leveling up as well (making the reasonable assumption that Decrypted, like Uncroaked, can gain levels). As long as Wanda's loss ratio is 1:1 or better, her strike force will get stronger with every battle. The increase is also multiplicative -- the stronger the strike force is, the more overwhelming the victories will be, and the stronger the strike force will become.


It's not quite that good.

If she leaves the garrison in place, then her strike force remains at constant strength. However, assuming the cities are generating units, then those can be used to garrison the cities, and the decrypted generated when capturing it can then be sent to the strike force.
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