Summer Updates - 037

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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby raphfrk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:09 am

Roketter wrote:That's the situation the royals are in right now because they don't know what's going on. Once they notice, however, they'll likely try a different more brutal aproach, scorched land, disbanding garrisons out of reinforcement range that cannot kill units in Wanda's force so they can't be decrypted, and probably a single attack direced straight against wanda hoping to kill her and end the decrypting.


That's a good point. My thoughts would have been more along the lines of including units that can burn corpses.

However, with insta-disbanding, then you don't need to do that. I wonder if warlords can disband units under their command (with permission from the Ruler).

If only the Ruler can instantly disband, you need a lookamancer + thinkamancer near the battle. This allows the Ruler know which units have fallen.

Also, I wonder if a Ruler can disband on another side's turn.

joosy wrote:on another note. I don't know if anyone has discussed this before, but I believe Casters may be popped just as casters. They eventually learn what their speciality is or they may be able to do several different disciplines(e.g. Wanda).


I wonder if Jillian will focus on getting a Thinkamancer.

Once they find the one they are best at, that is how they are then defined even though they may be more than that.


Maggie says that there is a feeling when casters cast spells from their speciality.

Actually, the full quote is:

TBFGK 135 wrote:There is a feeling. You may no longer notice it. But think of the first spell you ever cast. When you cast within your disclipline, there is a sense of warmth, comfort, familiarity. I want you to relax, and recall that feeling. Find the feel of your discipline, and step inside it. Lose yourself to it. Become your function.


It could also be that the first spell they cast decides their disclipline (or maybe the first one must be from the disclipline)
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:20 pm

joosy wrote:It may be that casters are the ones who may recognize and possibly resent the roles imposed on them by Erfworld society/religion. That may explain the existence of the Magic Kingdom and the 'plot' to bring Parson to Erf in hopes that he would break the existing world of warfare.

There's a lot we don't know about the popping of casters or about the role or function of the Magic Kingdom.

I do know something about stringing together arguments and there's way more holes in the "Magic Kingdom plot" theory than there is actual theory, much less fact.

moose o death wrote:parson is not a hippiemancer until he says he is. he has no casting abilities at all. please for the love of the titans stop saying he is. janice is an idiot for tricking gullible erfworld readers as well as comic extra's.


While I would not express myself as emphatically, I find myself in agreeance with MOD on some points.

moose o death wrote:my biggest concern now is that everyone thinks the GK forces are strong and that the decryption army is an unstoppable juggernaut, they are probably mildly strong at the most. tv forces sent to GK were vinny and some bats. jetstone sent ansom (probably so he could claim a territory and start a new side), a level 10, and two warlords at lvl 5 and 2. there might have been others, but most likely all the sides involved sent lvl1-4 troops to level against the worlds most intellectually damaged overlord.


Yes, but Erf is not a simple game. First you have to convince rulers to once again take part in a coalition after the first utterly disastrous attempt—using many times more forces than were needed. Ansom admitted that fielding those troops was a hardship, so their numbers or expense were not insignificant, apparently. Their first attempt to take down the intellectually damaged overlord failed spectacularly, meaning that the potential members of the RCC Mark II will be much more likely to want to explore reaching an accommodation with Stanley, to bide their time, to want to gather information, to want to rebuild their forces, etc. They will drag their heels and hope that somebody else commits first. And they will be less eager to give Stanley further reason to attract Stanley's ire and to send out troops rather than keep them home to bolster their own defenses.

I don't think GK is unstoppable. If this were literally the case, the next two books would have a lot less conflict—unless the conflict came from internecine power struggles or plots. I do think that GK would be quite difficult—that "quite" means very, for Commonwealth speakers—to stop, much less defeat. They are amongst the richest sides on Erf, they possess two attuned arkentools, they have access to what may be the preeminent military mind on Erf (and Parson is only learning more...), they have a very powerful overlord, and they are using superior military tactics (based on Parson's analysis of bonuses). They also have a serious reputation for kicking boop now, thanks to their use of what I've referred to as magical WMDs. This makes the rebirth of another coalition a difficult prospect, which is one reason why Don King and Spacely have their work cut out for them.

It's possible that all the royals are now panicked and will send out all their troops en masse to face Stanley, but when have you known politicians to do the right thing unless they've exhausted all other options?

moose o death wrote:the decryption force is now reclaiming the lost cities. full of the lowliest level one garrisons rcc had to offer. not even leaving warlords behind.


Taking those cities is a defensible tactic, one might say even solid military doctrine. You take the cities, protecting the flow of, if not of supplies, then of troops from your other cities given these cities are likely to lie on main roads. You gain whatever strategic resources those cities might allow, such as new units or more shmuckers. You reduce the probability of an attack from the rear and hold presumably strategically advantageous positions, as well as widen your intelligence-gathering network. And, of course, you can produce more units each turn.

Finally, GK's forces grow stronger and more numerous with each city taken. What's not to like?

moose o death wrote:the whole decryption force is running on a huge ego and a fast approaching brickwall. eventually they'll hit what has always stooped them getting the eleventh city. a vastly superior side not interested in expansion.
[/quote]

"Always?" "Vastly?" These are suppositions. As far as we know, what stopped Stanley was a counterstrike from the RCC.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Graydon » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:18 pm

DevilDan wrote:"Always?" "Vastly?" These are suppositions. As far as we know, what stopped Stanley was a counterstrike from the RCC.


Do we even know that Stanley was expansionist? The 11 cities could well have been Saline IV's domain, progressively lost to the coalition as Stanley-as-Overlord went off questing for Arkentools. We never did find out if the objection to Stanley was more than "regicide". Wanda, way back, says "Since you began questing for the other Arkentools, we have not won a battle". We don't know if there was an active/expansionist Overlord phase before the questing started.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby atteSmythe » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:43 pm

Graydon wrote:
DevilDan wrote:"Always?" "Vastly?" These are suppositions. As far as we know, what stopped Stanley was a counterstrike from the RCC.


Do we even know that Stanley was expansionist? The 11 cities could well have been Saline IV's domain, progressively lost to the coalition as Stanley-as-Overlord went off questing for Arkentools. We never did find out if the objection to Stanley was more than "regicide". Wanda, way back, says "Since you began questing for the other Arkentools, we have not won a battle". We don't know if there was an active/expansionist Overlord phase before the questing started.

I believe they were, in fact, Saline IV's.

It's not quite directly spelled out, but:
- Stanley had the Arkenhammer before he deposed Saline IV (I.79)
- Gobwin Knob once had 11 cities
- GK had not won a single battle since Stanley started questing for the other Arkentools (I.5)

Two possibilities exist: Stanley captured some cities while not looking for other Arkentools, or Stanley never actually captured a city. I find the former to be very unlikely, given that he had his Tool and Wanda whispering in his ear prior to his ascendancy.

Edit:
That said, it seems that Stanley was expansionist. He was 'questing for the other Arkentools,' and Ansom summarizes his crimes in I.34, though it's not entirely clear if all of that was done while leading GK, or if some was accomplished as its Chief Warlord.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Anton Gaist » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:51 pm

Assuming that higher level cities produce more resources, now that he has the schmuckers for it Stanley could upgrade all the conquered cities to, say, level 4, and make them easier to defend in case of a RCC Mk 2 counter-strike.

Wanda and Ansom's strike force is performing an impressive Blitzkrieg campaign, a rather smart move on GK's part. By moving fast and occupying all the small cities in the area with a very strong force, they're keeping casualties to a minimum while bolstering their own forces with the decrypted opponents. No other side knows how GK got an army that big. They don't know where they got the schmuckers to do so, either. If the strike force moves fast enough, they'll have time to dig in and consolidate their positions before the RCC Mk 2 can figure out what to do.

If TV and/or Faq lead the RCC Mk 2, however, GK will need to strengthen their air forces. Dwagons are strong, definitely, but they'll also need smaller support units to hold off against bats, skanks, goyles, gwiffons and megalogwiffs.

Stanley could also pop a few Plaid Tribe warlords and regular units, those would also be loyal to him and could be used as dwagon riders.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Graydon » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:59 pm

atteSmythe wrote:
Graydon wrote:Do we even know that Stanley was expansionist? The 11 cities could well have been Saline IV's domain, progressively lost to the coalition as Stanley-as-Overlord went off questing for Arkentools. We never did find out if the objection to Stanley was more than "regicide". Wanda, way back, says "Since you began questing for the other Arkentools, we have not won a battle". We don't know if there was an active/expansionist Overlord phase before the questing started.

I believe they were, in fact, Saline IV's.

It's not quite directly spelled out, but:
- Stanley had the Arkenhammer before he deposed Saline IV (I.79)
- Gobwin Knob once had 11 cities
- GK had not won a single battle since Stanley started questing for the other Arkentools (I.5)

Two possibilities exist: Stanley captured some cities while not looking for other Arkentools, or Stanley never actually captured a city. I find the former to be very unlikely, given that he had his Tool and Wanda whispering in his ear prior to his ascendancy.

Edit:
That said, it seems that Stanley was expansionist. He was 'questing for the other Arkentools,' and Ansom summarizes his crimes in I.34, though it's not entirely clear if all of that was done while leading GK, or if some was accomplished as its Chief Warlord.


Well, the Zamussels are Jillian's clan/family/whatever; they get wiped out, nominally, with the fall of FAQ which occurred while Stanley was designated heir and Saline IV was still in control. "Rubbed out the Milquetoast clan" could also imply city capture, but we don't have any information about them. "Hitting" the elves and Jetstone doesn't necessarily imply city capture. So it's still possible that as Overlord, all Stanley has been interested in has been questing for Arkentools and he'd been more-or-less ignoring empire management right up until Wanda convinces him to acquire the perfect Warlord.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby warriortribble » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:03 pm

So, I'm wondering, why a "ring of stone teeth" for walls? It doesn't even sound intimidating. Just arrogant at best, downright stupid at worst.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby LordDarksea » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:10 pm

warriortribble wrote:So, I'm wondering, why a "ring of stone teeth" for walls? It doesn't even sound intimidating. Just arrogant at best, downright stupid at worst.


But i bet it will look boopin' fantastic :D
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Justin Miller » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:14 pm

warriortribble wrote:So, I'm wondering, why a "ring of stone teeth" for walls? It doesn't even sound intimidating. Just arrogant at best, downright stupid at worst.


Unless some Master-Class dirtamancer were to animate the whole wall... turning it into a maw of demoralizing death for the invasion force...
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby raphfrk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:18 pm

warriortribble wrote:So, I'm wondering, why a "ring of stone teeth" for walls? It doesn't even sound intimidating. Just arrogant at best, downright stupid at worst.


It looks like the defence is based purely on the tower. There is no ground level entrances, so you have to be able to fly to enter. If you can fly then the wall is useless.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:19 pm

I think it's a fair bet that the combat-savvy Jill picked a good design. Don't forget, for example, that walls don't have to worry about heavy units or siege engines: Faq is only accessible via air and tunnels. Jill knows that what she particularly needs to worry about is an aerial attack, especially given what she thinks she knows about Stanley's strengths (i.e. dwagons).
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby HandofShadows » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:23 pm

Imagine trying to land something the size of a dragon with all those teeth walls around. You likely would end up with impalled dwagon.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:28 pm

Oh, MOD, I forgot to address one of your points in my post above. Ansom specifically told Vinny why he was leading the RCC: "It's the royalty thing."
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Scipion » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:01 pm

Justin Miller wrote:Unless some Master-Class dirtamancer were to animate the whole wall... turning it into a maw of demoralizing death for the defensive force...


;)
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Glenn » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:31 pm

I suspect the gaps between the "teeth" are too small to allow a Dwagon to fly through them, but are big enough to let through Gwiffons. Dwagons can't dive bomb down towards the tower without hitting the teeth.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby joosy » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:24 pm

warriortribble wrote:So, I'm wondering, why a "ring of stone teeth" for walls? It doesn't even sound intimidating. Just arrogant at best, downright stupid at worst.


Faq appears to pop powerful Air units like Gwiffons and Megalogwiffs. You cannot reach FAQ except by air or by tunnel so you cannot bring any siege units or large heavies (e.g. Battle Bears) so having siege defenses is kind of a waste.

Again, since Faq has mainly air defenses any infantry you bring better be mainly archers or else they will have a hard time fighting back.

Ergo, anyone wanting to attack Faq would come with a heavy air force which would make any city walls ornamental at best.

-----------
Edit: ah. everyone else already made my point. oh well...
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Yosarian » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:44 pm

The smart thing for the royalist coalition (assuming a new one forms now) to do would be to wait until Wanda and her massive stack of doom is far enough away, and then nail gobwin knob with 10 times as many forces as last time, crush them while Wanda is out in the field, and kill Stanley. If they do that, then Wanda's stack of doom dosn't matter; they've got a fair number of defenders, some dwagons, and very strong defenses at GK, but I don't think it'd be enough to stop a truly massive surprise attack. Of course, then they'd have to win before Wanda could come back, you don't really want to be besieging a city and get hit from behind.

The thing is, they won't do that unless they can both figure out what happened to the first time (Parson can't do the "uncroak the volcano" trick without Wanda, but they don't know how that works yet, and we know Don won't attack until he knows exactally what the risks are), and have a really accurate idea of where Wanda's army is and how well defended Gobwin Knob is. Charley has much of that information, though, and I bet he can get the rest. If a new bigger, stronger royal coalition meets Charley's price, and/or Charley decides that he needs to act to prevent the Tool from taking over the world, I could see that happening.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby Slowness » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:46 pm

Man, has anyone figured out any hidden meaning behind Dave's name? It's a long shot, but I just recently watched the 1968 film "2001: A Space Odyssey" on the turner classic movies channel.

When you get to the part with the space ship heading towards Jupiter, here is the crew:

Frank & Dave are the only human crew members that are awake, everybody else is asleep in stasis. I say Frank & Dave are Jillian's royal guard, while the crew asleep in stasis are represented by all of the units that have not even been popped yet.

HAL is the space ship's artificially intelligent computer system. HAL is extremely intelligent, and extremely effective. HAL makes a mistake, but claims the 9000 series is incapable of making mistakes, he attributes this to human error.
Frank and Dave decide to disconnect HAL if the equipment failure he predicted doesn't happen... HAL decides to eliminate this possibility by killing the entire crew... Dave is too kickass to die though... He disconnects HAL's "mind" manually, piece by piece, essentially killing HAL... When Dave reaches Jupiter, he is the only surviving crew member... You remember at the beginning of the movie where a giant black obelisk evolves apes into humans? Through a rather long and trippy sequence, it now evolves Dave, a human, into something new, and then the movie finally ends.

I say the heir is going to be named Hal, who is going to be super smart, though Frank and Dave are going to notice something "off" about him, and Hal will proceed to kill any non-royal units in his very own kingdom, as well as the kingdom's ability to produce them, with Dave being the last Non-Royal left standing, who then kills Hal, and gets an Arkentool for his effort...
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby DevilDan » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:15 am

Actually, a decapitation strike would end the whole problem: GK units in the field disband, I believe.
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Re: Summer Updates - 037

Postby mhangman » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:42 am

dude its only beginning you know... its just first book you are talking about. after that
Spoiler: show
HAL saves entire human race's ass he die dave die all die and become another life form ext.
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