Phoenix1 wrote:When Parson said the combat system was all about "force multipliers", that didn't really suggest to me that the bonuses themselves were multipliers. I read it more as, if we have someone who can grant a +5 bonus, we can multiply that bonus by applying it to a large number of troops, not that that bonus multiplies the value of each troop it applies to (although, since most troops attack at, what, +2 or +3, an additive bonus can also multiply a troop's stats, in essence).
What I was responding to, in the passage of mine that you quoted, was a suggestion to have the Stack Bonus a number that is added to the sum of the attack of the units in the stack. So for example, 8 units get +7 bonus. Meaning, if all have 10 attack, the stack's attack, with bonus, is 87.
What you suggest here works a little differently. 8 units, with attack 10 each, would each
get +7 attack resulting in the stack having a score of 136.
I'd make a further observation. You speak mostly of Leader
bonus, not stack bonus. This matters. If the stack bonus results in a value that depends only on the stack size, not also the units' stats, then strong units are affected by it less; example, if a stack of Pikers with attack 1 has it such that each Piker receives +7 from the stack bonus, that's a huge improvement. If a stack of Dwagons with 20 Attack has each receiving +7, not quite as big an improvement, comparatively speaking. But if stacking increases the efficiency of Pikers by some ratio, you'd expect the same ratio of improvement to happen for Dwagons.
No, I don't think it can work like that. I mean fundamentally. A "stack" doesn't have Attack and Defense... the Units in the Stack have Attack and Defense. When a Unit fights another, it fights with its own abilities modified, not as a nebulous stack vs. stack comparison. The Unit has it's Attack+ Bonuses vs the enemy's Defense+bonuses, and vice versa. If the fight was stack vs. stack, then the order to "screen" would be unnecessary. It would be the decision of the Commander which units took damage. To Screen, the Unit needs that order, so there is physically something the unit must do, to whit, place itself in the way of an attacker.
Leader bonus, or the kind of bonus Wanda gives to Uncroaked, is different. It's magic.
No, it comes because of a magical relationship between the Caster and particular Units, but the description is that of Leadership, not pseudo-Leadership.
One can think that the presence of Wanda somehow adds itching powder to the Fellows' weapons, which increases damage by a flat +2 for each and everyone. Heck why not, whatever. So additive Leader bonuses are not unaesthetical.
Nt necessarily. It comes because of an innate understanding of the units by the Caster. We can see that innate understanding in Wanda's mental landscape now.
As a final observation, currently I'm developping yet another version of a ruleset, where the Leader bonus is a hybrid of what you suggest and a level bonus (a level-dependent fraction of leader's stats is added to the units under their command).
Remember this from the WotT: "6011856 The relative combat power by level is NOT logarithmic or exponential."
The system is as simple as this: For both units, add Attack to bonuses from various Leadership sources, Dancefight Bonus, and other Bonuses. Add the two Attacks and Divide individual by total to get probability of First Hit. Damage done by weapon type, modified by a function of the Attack and Defense.
Unit 1: Level 1 Uncroaked Light Sword from GK during tBfGK. (USing Bogroll's stats for comparison.) Hits 5, Combat 3, Defense 2. Leadership 8 (Wanda), CHief Warlord Leadership 1 (Parson in Hex, Leadership at 1/2). Artifact Bonus 4 (Hammer in Hex, 1/2 of 8 arbitrarily chosen), Dance Fight 5 (arbitrary), Stack 8
Unit 2, Level 1 Unaroyal Spear. Hits 6, Combat 4, Defense 3 (slightly higher because UNcroaked were mss-uncroaked poorly). Leadership 0. Chief Warlord Leadership 5 (Ansom in Hex, at 1/2)., Artifact Bonus 2 (In Hex, at 1/2, not attuned another 1/2), Stack 8
GK Attack = 3+8+1+4+5+8 = 29
GK Defense = 28
Unaroyal Attack = 4+5+2+8 = 19
Unaroyal Defense = 18
GK probability of attacking first = 29/48 = 60%
Not so powerful; however, there is a major difference in damage. GK is at +11, Unaroyal at -10. For the unled attackers to be so totally brutalized, I think we have to conclude that Leadership and other Bonuses affect both Attack and Defense. If it was excluded, GK would be at +26 and Unaroyal at +16, which wouldn't be as obviously overpowered, as it was intended to be. Perhaps I have undervalued Dancefighting, since the Elf's comment about the suicidal attack was specifically complaining about the Dancefight bonus. Set it at +20 and it's a lot more overwhelming. Anyway, how the difference between Combat and Defense affects the damage dealt is not obvious. A -ve difference still has to be able to deal some damage, since there are rare losses in every situation. We still don't have a probability of Hitting in this, which we know exists thanks to Artemis. (OMG, I just got it. Arte-MISS. No wonder she kept blowing it at critical points.)
If bonuses did not affect Defense, I would expect Bogroll's stats to be more like Combat 5 and Defense 12 (instead of 4), to give him a defense that needs to be overcome by some Leadership or stack bonus.
As for the Stacking debate in general, I believe the limitations include a physical proximity problem. Whenever a Warlord is splitting his forces, he has them re-stack. If proximity weren't an issue, they wouldn't need to do this. The easiest way to explain this is if each Stack has one member assigned as a squad leader. If units are too far from the squad leader, they lose the bonus and take a penalty. This would explain why entire armies aren't in a single stack when fighting on a front. If you only need to be close to 7 other members of the stack, regardless of stack size, you could retain the Stack bonus at +8 across the entire front even as losses were suffered. There has to be more to it, because on a frotn line, 16 units could easily be in close proximity to share a +8 bonus and resist losses reducing the bonus with each death.