Summer Updates - 040

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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Yosarian » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:17 pm

MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.


Well, considering that basically their entire army right now is made up of units killed at the end of book 1 and decrypted, it was not going to be long before someone recognized someone on GK's side. That was inevitable. About the most GK could do is to get as much of an advantage as they could first.

Anyway, yeah; the RC II seems to have a LOT of cities popping units. Wanda might have a strength advantage for the moment, but If they can manage to stalemate Wanda somewhere, to slow her down and keep her tied up for a while, say if they manage to tie her down in a long defensive siege of the uniroyal Capital, where she dosn't have a chance to decrypt units any faster then she loses them, then over time the big production advantage of the RC could win them the war.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Jindra34 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:30 pm

Yosarian wrote:
MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.


Well, considering that basically their entire army right now is made up of units killed at the end of book 1 and decrypted, it was not going to be long before someone recognized someone on GK's side. That was inevitable. About the most GK could do is to get as much of an advantage as they could first.

Anyway, yeah; the RC II seems to have a LOT of cities popping units. Wanda might have a strength advantage for the moment, but If they can manage to stalemate Wanda somewhere, to slow her down and keep her tied up for a while, say if they manage to tie her down in a long defensive siege of the uniroyal Capital, where she dosn't have a chance to decrypt units any faster then she loses them, then over time the big production advantage of the RC could win them the war.

Except for the fact that Stanley is pulling in several dwragons (big heavy scary things by most accounts) each turn. And it takes a lot of infantry to match them. And of course that could even be worse if Wanda can decrypt a dwagons. Think of all those bonuses stacked on a dwagon.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby tenth » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:34 pm

Penistone?
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Malanthyus » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:35 pm

Probably too obvious to mention, but more than likely the reason Dhrystone was popping gumps was due to the fact that it is surrounded by woods hexes.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby gaiaswill » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:44 pm

600 units and only 5 warlords to keep them in line? Sounds like someone's going to get spanked hard by post-Parson Ansom.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Retconjurer » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:36 pm

What if they don't take Ansom's decryption the way we're all expecting? That is, as a blasphemous croakamantic abomination.

What if they see it the way that Ansom sees it? As a Titan-Granted new life. Indeed, a new kind of life. A better kind of life. An eternal life. I mean, coming from a Christian culture, the idea of being totally freed from death is pretty dang freaking cool. The decrypted do not hunger or thirst, they are not wearied in their service of the titans. They are restored from the croaked by the intervention of the Titanic.

That'd be pretty anti-climatic if everyone did it. But I mean, what if someone sees the decryption from that angle who isn't on the side of Gobwin Knob? What do you do when the Titanic mandate has switched?
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Graydon » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:40 pm

MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.

They could of used the shock effect of Ansom being alive when fighting a giant major kingdom.


Well, two points; first, the first city that doesn't fall in one turn, or has a hat, or some other magical communication device, reveals that Ansom is there; the Gobwin Knob maneuver force probably can't avoid that. They might not be able to perfectly surround cities which are located in natural chokepoints, too, which involves the risk of escaping units.

Second, the way the two princes are discussing the subject of Ansom not being dead strongly suggests that not only is this not general knowledge, they really don't want it to be general knowledge, either. If you're the Royal Coalition and a Prince of Jetsone is Stanley the Worm's Chief Warlord, your moral justifications go all wobbly like warm jello. Especially since Ansom burns with convert fervor and will happily explain that he is doing the Will of the Titans.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:42 pm

Ah, I've been waiting for a post like this. As much as we enjoy the Book 1 cast (except for Misty who never had so much as a one liner, what a boring and pointless inclusion!), I've been eager to see what new faces Book2 was going to introduce. The King of Jetstone was the obvious choice and I'd like to see more of him. However, Ossomer and Tramennis are nice substitutes. Already, they appear to have a good dynamic between them. Ossomer is no nonsense stoic and who dares you to call his bluff. Tamennis is certainly a "rogue" character type (he has a rapier!) where you know he always bluffing and thus are left always in the dark about when to call his bluffs.

Together, they might prove an acceptable foil to Parson. Especially if Ossomer lives up to his name's pun (more awesome). He might seem like a bigger stick in the mud than Ansom, but he also strikes me as more of a realist. Hence, no more building a situational forest unit with the side's best city. Infantry win wars. He'd also have probably ordered a retreat after the tunnel troops got wiped out and try a waiting strategy to lure more Stanley forces out and let the undead decay. Maybe. Regardless, I'm interested in seeing more from these two.

Also, it appears that flying units are largely a luxury, with the obvious exceptions of Transylvitto who seems to lack in standard infantry and GK due to Stanley's Arkenhammer and Dwagons. Hence, relay stations which could easily be set up by any competent warlord, are typically not used as they take flyers away from what would otherwise be more productive uses.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby stm177 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:50 pm

RCC2 needs more allies, but I don't know how big the world is.

Gobwin Knob should be able to reach some of Jetstones level 5 cities. And, they must have at least captured all the previously lost cities, so they must be producing lots of units. With the schmuckers that Sizemore is digging up, they should also be able to upgrade the captured cities. Usually in these types of games, the higher level cities can unlock more expensive units.

It's unclear to me if a decrypted unit can be decrypted again after it has died, but if it can, then Wanda and Ansom should grind down their opponents in the open field, and then resurrect everyone.

Transylvito didn't send many units to the first RCC, so their forces should be intact. Still, I don't see the new RCC2 having enough units to counter Gobwin Knob.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Tubal-Cain » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:57 pm

The rest of the world is getting desperate, but it seems that they are still relying on trying to win with superior military maneuvering rather than consulting other sources.

Maybe it's a problem the Royals have. Parson won by the creative application of magic. Stanley won by (partially) accepting Wanda (a caster)'s advice to try the summoning spell. Charlie has done very well for himself by efficiently utilizing the magic units at his disposal.
On the other side of the coin, Ansom didn't seem to associate casters much, and neither does Vinny. Now we find that Ansom's brother has been popping nothing but infantry for the past 23 turns.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby ftl » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:09 pm

Jindra34 wrote:
Yosarian wrote:
MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.


Well, considering that basically their entire army right now is made up of units killed at the end of book 1 and decrypted, it was not going to be long before someone recognized someone on GK's side. That was inevitable. About the most GK could do is to get as much of an advantage as they could first.

Anyway, yeah; the RC II seems to have a LOT of cities popping units. Wanda might have a strength advantage for the moment, but If they can manage to stalemate Wanda somewhere, to slow her down and keep her tied up for a while, say if they manage to tie her down in a long defensive siege of the uniroyal Capital, where she dosn't have a chance to decrypt units any faster then she loses them, then over time the big production advantage of the RC could win them the war.

Except for the fact that Stanley is pulling in several dwragons (big heavy scary things by most accounts) each turn. And it takes a lot of infantry to match them. And of course that could even be worse if Wanda can decrypt a dwagons. Think of all those bonuses stacked on a dwagon.


That is, if Stanley is willing to let go of his Dwagons and give them to Wanda to command. That's not at all certain. He's protective of his dwagons, and jealous of Wanda's arkentool as it is.

Of note, however, are the apparently stupid RCC tactics. They're going to be throwing infantry at Wanda... who will happily destroy them all with bonuses, and then decrypt them and add to her army. If the RCC holes up and allows those infantry to play defense in a long protracted siege, then it's doable. But it seems more likely that they'll try to mob Wanda, and will end up doubling her army. All of the RCC production advantage goes out the window, because Wanda can decrypt that advantage.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Vreejack » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:30 pm

doran wrote:For a minute or two, I though Sansabelt was a ASoIaF reference...


I doubt Rob would make such a reference. GRRM is not "pop" enough. "Hobbittm" made me lol, though.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:02 pm

Oh, Ansom's brothers? I like this.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Lightbender » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:20 pm

I'm waiting to see where Charlie will fall into this, we honestly have no idea of the actual power he possesses. We know he's got a bunch of archons, but clearly if he can command ridiculous sums of money for his assistance from all the way on the other side of Erfworld, he's gotta have a few other tricks up his sleeves.

He's not part of the RCII, but he's definately not a GK ally. I get the feeling that he could easily swing the battle if he cared enough.

We also honestly have no idea what the sides have for casters, other than that Jetstone doesn't have a thinkamancer. Remember that Ansom didn't lead all the forces of Jetstone there is, and the other sides clearly didn't commit everything they had to the taking of GK. Some more casters joining in could really shake things up.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby imgran » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:29 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:
MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.

They could of used the shock effect of Ansom being alive when fighting a giant major kingdom.
Sounds like Wanda's force is eating up Unaroyal. ZDon't know if they count as a "major" kingdom or not.



They were major enough to provide the second largest RCC contingent in the first war.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/086.jpg

Yosarian wrote:
MarchHatter wrote:I think Gobwin Knob just did a crappy job at hiding the fact that Ansom was decrypted or a crappy job at killing everyone and letting someone escape and not be killed and decrypted.


Well, considering that basically their entire army right now is made up of units killed at the end of book 1 and decrypted, it was not going to be long before someone recognized someone on GK's side. That was inevitable. About the most GK could do is to get as much of an advantage as they could first.

Anyway, yeah; the RC II seems to have a LOT of cities popping units. Wanda might have a strength advantage for the moment, but If they can manage to stalemate Wanda somewhere, to slow her down and keep her tied up for a while, say if they manage to tie her down in a long defensive siege of the uniroyal Capital, where she dosn't have a chance to decrypt units any faster then she loses them, then over time the big production advantage of the RC could win them the war.


You're essentially talking about the Battle of Stalingrad. If it gets to that point, Parson will recognize what's going on in about 2 seconds and will try to convince Wanda to change tactics. It remains to be seen whether he can succeed.
Last edited by imgran on Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:30 pm

Tubal-Cain wrote:Maybe it's a problem the Royals have. Parson won by the creative application of magic. Stanley won by (partially) accepting Wanda (a caster)'s advice to try the summoning spell. Charlie has done very well for himself by efficiently utilizing the magic units at his disposal.
On the other side of the coin, Ansom didn't seem to associate casters much, and neither does Vinny. Now we find that Ansom's brother has been popping nothing but infantry for the past 23 turns.


Well, it does seem like Warlords favor troops over magic and Parson's aggressive use of mages definitely gave GK an advantage over RCC. However, it appears casters are a rare, valuable, and fragile unit type that are rarely and wisely risked on the frontlines (and unlike Warlords they don't give bonuses). They may later change their tune this time. One thing Parson's gaming sessions probably never taught him was Grand Strategy, or LONG long term thinking.

As for infantry, well it can't be that much worse than attacking Stanley's Dwagons with bats, can it? The strike force has 12 stacks, or 96 units but are probably going to spread out over several hexes. If they are sufficiently outnumbered, and get the benefit of some good warlord bonuses then column can be defeated, especially if the leadership stack is taken out quickly. Or knock out the rams and the column looses its siege. Then GK will have to rely on more conventional troops giving the RCC2 a reasonable chance to fight back against Stanley, especially if he keeps Parson on management duty. Of course, that may just lead to a repeat of Book 1 which would be less interesting. I still don't have a sense of where the next book is going to begin, and I think the creators want it that way.

If plot demands it, then Wanda and co. can certainly be defeated, though she's very unlikely to be croaked and instead flee the destruction of the column or get captured.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby Angband » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:32 pm

I lol'd when I noticed this line...

He took Pantstown by surprise, then blasted his way through the gap and took Toughskin and Oshkosh as well.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby yay » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:33 pm

Lightbender wrote:We also honestly have no idea what the sides have for casters, other than that Jetstone doesn't have a thinkamancer. Remember that Ansom didn't lead all the forces of Jetstone there is, and the other sides clearly didn't commit everything they had to the taking of GK. Some more casters joining in could really shake things up.


thats one thing that annoyed me about the first book, GK's monopoly on casters. that could be how they negate wanda's pliers, because she is the only caster with the decrypted force. keep her from croaking/decrypting by using healomancy, or stopping her attacking with hippiemancy. anything really, just give the other side something more than slightly magical fairy's and thinkamancers outside of the battlespace for updates on backhome.

this might be a good chance to see what traditional (non-parson) erf war is like. i don't think Ansom learned that much from parson, and i doubt his brothers will be any more crafty than he was. Tremines might be a little more crafty than Ossomer, but he is not Cheif warlord, so any good advice will only serve as foil for Ossomer blundering into a trap.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby imgran » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:38 pm

yay wrote:thats one thing that annoyed me about the first book, GK's monopoly on casters.


That monopoly went away when Charlie got involved, you know. The Archons negated everything Parson was trying to use his caster advantage to do, right up to and including Wanda's thinkamancy spell on Jillian.


Also I rather suspect that casters are the kind of force you send to war only in a great emergency because of how expensive and difficult to replace they're supposed to be. If I understood the RCC correctly, the first one was mostly an adventure whose objective was the crowning of Prince Ansom as the king of a new side centered around GK. Other royal nations are going to commit troops to that in the hopes of neutralizing a dangerous enemy, but unless they themselves gain something materially, I can understand why they won't commit major national treasures such as prize casters.
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Re: Summer Updates - 040

Postby imgran » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:42 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:
Tubal-Cain wrote:Maybe it's a problem the Royals have. Parson won by the creative application of magic. Stanley won by (partially) accepting Wanda (a caster)'s advice to try the summoning spell. Charlie has done very well for himself by efficiently utilizing the magic units at his disposal.
On the other side of the coin, Ansom didn't seem to associate casters much, and neither does Vinny. Now we find that Ansom's brother has been popping nothing but infantry for the past 23 turns.


Well, it does seem like Warlords favor troops over magic and Parson's aggressive use of mages definitely gave GK an advantage over RCC. However, it appears casters are a rare, valuable, and fragile unit type that are rarely and wisely risked on the frontlines (and unlike Warlords they don't give bonuses). They may later change their tune this time. One thing Parson's gaming sessions probably never taught him was Grand Strategy, or LONG long term thinking.

As for infantry, well it can't be that much worse than attacking Stanley's Dwagons with bats, can it? The strike force has 12 stacks, or 96 units but are probably going to spread out over several hexes. If they are sufficiently outnumbered, and get the benefit of some good warlord bonuses then column can be defeated, especially if the leadership stack is taken out quickly. Or knock out the rams and the column looses its siege. Then GK will have to rely on more conventional troops giving the RCC2 a reasonable chance to fight back against Stanley, especially if he keeps Parson on management duty. Of course, that may just lead to a repeat of Book 1 which would be less interesting. I still don't have a sense of where the next book is going to begin, and I think the creators want it that way.

If plot demands it, then Wanda and co. can certainly be defeated, though she's very unlikely to be croaked and instead flee the destruction of the column or get captured.


The one thing that can really even this war I think is a link between master class Thinkamancer, Lookamancer and Shockamancer. If the RCC can scare up those three units, they can pretty much rain tactical strikes down on any overmap target and perhaps even targets behind defensive structures. We're talking about the capacity for gamebreaking surgical strikes to wreckthe cohesion of any force that gets too close. Possibly the ultimate defensive siege linkup.
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