Summer Updates - 041

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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby raphfrk » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:01 am

Akkristor wrote:Arkenhammer + Walnut = Pigeon.


Arkenhammer + Gwiffon = Walnut.


Arkenhammer + Pigeon = Gwiffon?

It makes a nice cycle. Walnut -> Pigeon -> Gwiffon -> Walnut.


That is interesting.

However, it sounds like converted items revert back to their previous state. Bogroll's pidgeon pie became a walnut pie. That might only happen when the item "dies".

If real, it would mean that Stanley could create Gwiffons by whacking enough walnuts. He has a 20%-25% success rate at the walnut to pigeon conversion. Assuming the second conversion also has a 20% chance. If he whacked 25 walnuts, he would get a 5 pidgeons and then if he whacked the 5 pidgeons, he would get a 1 gwiffon.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby moose o death » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:18 am

except it was an orly that became a walnut.

jillian swarmed stanley with orly's, the next panel stanley is swinging wildly at a bunch of orly?, g2g ded, etc. speech text. then sudden;y exclaims "is that a walnut?"
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby WarFAN » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:08 am

Charlie has done the only possible action in this situation. The RCCII is now fighting a truly ideological war. Even the more pragmatic sides, like Transilvito, are engaged in a total conflict for the "royalty thing".

Charlie´s last hope is to contact with FAQ: The only side of the RCCII engaged in a personal war, instead of an ideological one.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Unclever title » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:51 am

Roszlishan wrote:The fancy that Charlie is a linked entity, or a sentient arkentool, is a fancy. There is nothing to support such a hypothesis. One might as well suggest Charlie is a hippopotamus, has a second (or third) arkentool, or practices macrame as a hobby. No evidence.

Conclusive evidence? Absolutely none, you're right.

However in some ways the explanation fits.
A. Charlie is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
B. Charlie is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
C. Charlie is exceedingly strange.
D. Charlie has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
E. Charlie possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.


I respond to you what evidence (conclusive or otherwise) do we have that he's an ordinary Erfworld unit?

Other than the fact that he lives in Erfworld.


All that we KNOW about Charlie is that: (in no particular order)
1. He's an overlord.
2. He possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.
3. His base (or wherever Charlie is currently living) is somewhere on the Eastern side of Erfworld and apparently in the mountains.
4. He has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
5. He is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
6. He is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
7. He is exceedingly strange.
8. He is a mercenary.
9. He is not very well liked.
10. He has Archons, a unit that no one else seems to have.


Personally I don't fully hold to the "Charlie as the Arkendish" idea, I think he's probably an ordinary Erf unit who attuned to the Arkendish, however I do like this theory, or fancy if you must call it that, both for reasons I said earlier and that it does fit into the current situation.

Personally I think it's a more likely explanation than "Charlie is another human being in Erfworld like Parson," for which we only have the evidence of B and C, and that Charlie seems to understand the things that Parson says when he abbreviates.

The main point is that we don't know WHAT or WHO Charlie is besides that he's Charlie and the facts I've written above (Anyone feel free to correct me on anything I neglected or got wrong), so any further knowledge about Charlie we get from other the characters' assumptions of Charlie such that he is a he, and he is not a tuna, information that is not confirmed even within Erfworld's pages.

Anything posted here not by the Titans and not concluded directly from Erfworld is speculation, or fancy, some fancier than others yes, but to dismiss it just because of that?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:30 am

Unclever title wrote:However in some ways the explanation fits.
A. Charlie is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
B. Charlie is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
C. Charlie is exceedingly strange.
D. Charlie has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
E. Charlie possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.


A. Just as likely to indicate paranoia as it is to indicate he's not a unit.
B. So is Vinnie, and Don King.
C. So is Jack Snape - Jack is arguably even stranger than Charlie.
D. Wanda has command of Croakamancy that no other can match as well, once she attuned.
E. Only actual units (Stanley, Wanda) have been shown to be able to attune to a tool. Charlie is attuned to a tool, therefore the likeliest assumption is that Charlie is a unit.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby DevilDan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:32 am

Bogroll is Charlie. We all know that he faked his own death, using archon foolamancies and teleporting. That was the perfect place for him to observe Parson: and note how he knew that Parson wouldn't be up on the parapet at his meeting with Ansom... something only Bogroll and a few others knew about.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby nerf-dweller » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:03 pm

Tyris wrote: Slately may have figured him out and spread the lie about him being on the other side to drive another nail in the coffin that contains Charlie's powerbase. .


Although Slately's conclusion is wrong, that doesn't mean that he's deliberately spreading false information. Apparently survivors from GK's assaults have relayed that they have seen Charlie's Archons fighting under GK colors. With not even Charlie knowing why, noone else has any conceivable reason to not to conclude that Charlie and Stanley are now allied. So Slately is simply telling what he believes to be the true. Despite any denials from Charlie to the contrary. His Archons are undoubtly fighting with GK forces.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Unclever title » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:13 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Unclever title wrote:However in some ways the explanation fits.
A. Charlie is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
B. Charlie is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
C. Charlie is exceedingly strange.
D. Charlie has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
E. Charlie possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.


A. Just as likely to indicate paranoia as it is to indicate he's not a unit.
B. So is Vinnie, and Don King.
C. So is Jack Snape - Jack is arguably even stranger than Charlie.
D. Wanda has command of Croakamancy that no other can match as well, once she attuned.
E. Only actual units (Stanley, Wanda) have been shown to be able to attune to a tool. Charlie is attuned to a tool, therefore the likeliest assumption is that Charlie is a unit.


Right, my point was not that this theory is correct/incorrect but that it does fit a POTENTIAL explanation for Charlie, there are definitely multiple ways to potentially explain each of those points, so it shouldn't be dismissed outright. It should be confirmed/dismissed as more information supporting/not supporting it is obtained from the story.

I did indeed say there was no CONCLUSIVE evidence.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Whispri » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:38 pm

'Course, what with Predictamancy being what it is, there's always the chance that Charlie's out there thinking 'just as prophesied, yay!'

joosy wrote:
Whispri wrote:And really, how would he gain by dropping her in a pile of doom unsupported?

Either she succeeds and he wins a victory without risking any of his own troops. Or she loses and he doesn't have to pay her and can disavow any knowledge of her actions.

There'd be nothing to disavow, Shelby was in the process of conquering Dagwood. And given that the resistance she encountered was sufficient to send her panicking out of the hex, sacrificing unit after unit, if he'd known he can't have expected any other result.

DevilDan wrote:Or she weakens his enemies and he doesn't have to pay her. Or he distracts his enemies and attacks from elsewhere. Or he's just a mean bastard.

He'd have had to be providing her with upkeep at the very least. To cause a distraction she'd have to be spotted in advance, a problem his own forces would have to summount, and if they could... Also, given that Dagwood resistance was so strong that even Jillian (I mean, Jillian!) turned and ran, all hiring her likely achieved was to make his enemies stronger thanks to the experience points she handed them. Maybe she got some useful scouting done though, who knows?

Yosarian wrote:
Whispri wrote:
Ninja wrote:What risk? She could go around the whole kingdom in one turn. She would be back before the others could even MOVE.

The risk of ambush, she could fly straight into a hostile stack. And if she dies her Kingdom dies with her. She's recklessly gambling with other people's lives.

No one can even get into FAQ except by air. For that matter, very few people even know it exists, and even less know that there's a kingdom there now. SOmeone would have had to find out she was there, fly in without being noticed, and then somehow know that she was going to fly in that exact path today.

There's probably a lot to be gained by a ruler seeing her kingdom for herself and visiting her cities, and doing so in this way seems a very low risk activity; it's probably safer then Stanly getting the dragons, even with the archeons scouting ahead for him.

Not true, Faq can be reached by tunnels as well (and perhaps by the Hannibal routine). Point is though, it's doable. Units from other sides flew over Faq when it was a hidden Kingdom, and they'll fly over it now. One stack of fliers in the wrong place, and it's curtains for Jillian and her side.

Infidel wrote:
She's gambling the lives of every man, woman and beast loyal to Faq on the strength of her luck. And it's a needless, pointless risk. She's worse than every other ruler we've seen. Up to and including Stanley, the poster child for mismanagement.


in EVERY single book I've read with a reluctantly crowned ruler. The king or queen is ALWAYS gallivanting off without the support of bodyguards at every available opportunity.

And in how many of those books would the reluctantly crowned one's subjects literally keel over and die if the ruler perished, hmm? I'm guessing not many...
Last edited by Whispri on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Ninja » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:52 pm

Unclever title wrote:All that we KNOW about Charlie is that: (in no particular order)
1. He's an overlord.
2. He possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.
3. His base (or wherever Charlie is currently living) is somewhere on the Eastern side of Erfworld and apparently in the mountains.
4. He has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
5. He is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
6. He is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
7. He is exceedingly strange.
8. He is a mercenary.
9. He is not very well liked.
10. He has Archons, a unit that no one else seems to have.


He could as well be on the North or South pole, given that Erfworld isn't a disc carried on a turtle. :D

DevilDan wrote:Bogroll is Charlie. We all know that he faked his own death, using archon foolamancies and teleporting. That was the perfect place for him to observe Parson: and note how he knew that Parson wouldn't be up on the parapet at his meeting with Ansom... something only Bogroll and a few others knew about.


It.... it all fits now... this is brilliant!!! I can't believe it! How have i been so blind?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Ninja » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:05 pm

Also, someone (I'm too lazy to look back) said that being as 6 turns ago it was 18 turns after TBfGK, Charlie already knew what happened to his Archons and that's why the calculation cam up with 4.14%. But it's a mathematical tool. It doesn't know stuff like that. You input a bunch of numbers and get a result. Yes, it is obviously very sophisticated, as Parson pointed out, to be able to make a future prediction like that. But it is still just a prediction. And perhaps Charlie only found out about Ansom leading the attack later. Or perhaps he is playing Parson as well, and wanted to teach him about the bracer.

EXTRA!!! Crazy idea. What if the Archons are still loyal to Charlie after decryptation? Perhaps they serve as spies? Or perhaps he can just see the snapshots they are taking? Remember when Parson was falling with that yellow dwagon, he spotted an Archon filming him?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby DevilDan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:28 pm

Ninja wrote:EXTRA!!! Crazy idea. What if the Archons are still loyal to Charlie after decryptation? Perhaps they serve as spies? Or perhaps he can just see the snapshots they are taking? Remember when Parson was falling with that yellow dwagon, he spotted an Archon filming him?


Sorry, but you've been, err, Ninja'd on that one a few times over.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby davesnothere » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:31 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:
Tyris wrote: Slately may have figured him out and spread the lie about him being on the other side to drive another nail in the coffin that contains Charlie's powerbase. .


Although Slately's conclusion is wrong, that doesn't mean that he's deliberately spreading false information. Apparently survivors from GK's assaults have relayed that they have seen Charlie's Archons fighting under GK colors. With not even Charlie knowing why, noone else has any conceivable reason to not to conclude that Charlie and Stanley are now allied. So Slately is simply telling what he believes to be the true. Despite any denials from Charlie to the contrary. His Archons are undoubtly fighting with GK forces.


But Slately's going to have a real problem with this line of influence when it becomes known that Ansom is the Chief Warlord for Stanley. That currently doesn't seem to be well known, and in the previous update, we only saw the brothers start to learn it.

The current problem with Wanda's and Ansom's blitzkrieg, is that not many sides are getting any "believable" itel out of an attack site before a battle is over. Given the funny time nature of the turn based day, it should be possible to thinkagram info out from particants during the battle. But if the battle is over too quickly (and certainly Charlie doesn't like losing high powered scouts either) not too much has emerged. It will probably not be until the first full on multi-turn engagement with RCC2 where everyone will get a true picture of the compostion of Stanley's forces.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby joosy » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:54 pm

DevilDan wrote:If I had a shmucker for every time that we take speculation as gospel truth around here... or even for every time I've pointed out an example of this.

Why you'd be one of the richest sides in Erfworld! :)

I sometimes enjoy the wild speculation if nothing more than to confirm my own sanity. Although at times it does chafe me that I can't be that creative. Maybe I should just join in the fun and make up wild fantasies to see if they make it into the wiki or are taken up by those who like to debate furiously at windmills.

So I heard that the Archons are really loyal to Charlie because they are a collective Hive mind and are really all part of Charlie because the Arkendish, being a Thinkamancy Fate-aligned tool, induces sentience in all things around it until they appear to be independent units. We THINK we are seeing Archons but they are just flying rocks and small mammals.

Or

The Arkendish is actually in a juncture between our world and Erfworld. It scrambles signals of passing airplanes, luring them in to crash in the remote Andes-like Erf mountains where the Arkendishes attuned user makes Archons of the flight crew and plays god with the remaining passengers seeing how long until he can induce them into cannibalism or re-enacting the Lord of the Flies. The aperture that the Arkendish works thorugh is located in the Bermuda Triangle, of course.

or

Did you know? The next Arken tool will be the ArkenSpeculum which will allow the attuned user to make flying monkeys spew from opposing units' butts.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby DevilDan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:58 pm

joosy wrote:Did you know? The next Arken tool will be the ArkenSpeculum which will allow the attuned user to make flying monkeys spew from opposing units' butts.


Parson already has "The Wizard of Oz" on his mind...
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Infidel » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:12 pm

Roszlishan wrote:[color=#800080]
The fancy that Charlie is a linked entity, or a sentient arkentool, is a fancy. There is nothing to support such a hypothesis. One might as well suggest Charlie is a hippopotamus, has a second (or third) arkentool, or practices macrame as a hobby. No evidence.


Ok, you're just being overly dismissive here. It's being presented as speculation, so crying, "No evidence." is a bit presumptive.

Yes, there are other qualifiable explanations, but having other potential explanations does not make the former deserve a "might as well suggest Charlie is a hippopotamus" analogy. Especially when the hippopotamus analogy really does have ZERO support, (a story with a talking animal usually has other talking animals, and a story with only one talking animal never surprises the audience with a reveal at the end, the talking animal is presented throughout the story as such) but the sentient artifact does have some indirect support.

Support?
1. Sentient Artifacts are common in Fantasy.
2. The act of attunement could be the tool accepting the user, not the user somehow "matching" some mechanical criteria. Which implies that the arkentools are alive.
3. Waking up AI is also common in fiction. Dahak, a spaceship left to itself for about 80 thousand years "woke up", the whole terminator series is about an AI that wakes up and turns on humans, etc.. So the concept of a arkentool with minimal decision making capability but with a vast capability suddenly waking up is supported in standard fiction, it's not something entirely out of place.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby HandofShadows » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:29 pm

Infidel wrote:
Roszlishan wrote:[color=#800080]
1. Sentient Artifacts are common in Fantasy.


And we have a hint of this in Erfworld. Remember the old cast page? The Arkenhamer is listed and under weaknesses it lists "poor choices in friends" (or something similar). But I don't really see the Arkentools as being alive enough to act as a person though.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Roszlishan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:46 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Roszlishan wrote:(and I admit to much puzzlement that it does not supply decwypted instead!)


"Dwagon" is a 'cute' name for a Dragon.
Uncroaked is a 'cute' name for decaying (zombie-like) Undead.
Decrypted is a 'cute' name for immortal Undead.

Changing 'decrypted' to 'decwypted' would double-cutesify it.


Too much of a good thing is just about right!

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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby jnrhayz » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 pm

As for Charlie's location:

It says in this update - "no Royal side west or south of me will even take my calls, let alone hire me."

So it makes sense that he has a central location and there are kingdoms east and north of him.

Which is a great location for a mercenary.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Roszlishan » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:01 pm

Unclever title wrote:
Roszlishan wrote:The fancy that Charlie is a linked entity, or a sentient arkentool, is a fancy. There is nothing to support such a hypothesis. One might as well suggest Charlie is a hippopotamus, has a second (or third) arkentool, or practices macrame as a hobby. No evidence.


I respond to you what evidence (conclusive or otherwise) do we have that he's an ordinary Erfworld unit?

Other than the fact that he lives in Erfworld.


All that we KNOW about Charlie is that: (in no particular order)
1. He's an overlord.
2. He possesses and is attuned to the Arkendish.
3. His base (or wherever Charlie is currently living) is somewhere on the Eastern side of Erfworld and apparently in the mountains.
4. He has a command of Thinkamancy the Maggie cannot match and (assumedly) no one else can.
5. He is never directly seen (as other people are) in a Thinkagram.
6. He is much smarter than the average Erfworlder.
7. He is exceedingly strange.
8. He is a mercenary.
9. He is not very well liked.
10. He has Archons, a unit that no one else seems to have.


Personally I don't fully hold to the "Charlie as the Arkendish" idea, I think he's probably an ordinary Erf unit who attuned to the Arkendish, however I do like this theory, or fancy if you must call it that, both for reasons I said earlier and that it does fit into the current situation.

...


Yes, it does fit. I'll admit to being too fanciful myself in describing Charlie as a potential hippopotamus!

Although he's smarter than the average Erfworlder, this is no great thing. Assuming a median average, well, 1 out of 2 Erfworlders will be smarter than the average Erfworlder. Plus, he is an overlord, and a very successful one - right there, that argues for his being well out of any average category :P ! He is certainly smart for an Erfworlder - but then, we have seen other smart Erfworlders. The Grand Abbie Janis seemed fairly smart. Sizemore and Wanda are fairly smart, Maggie is smart ... Vinnie is very smart. His archons seem fairly smart. So I don't see any inherent need for an explanation of his intelligence beyond "he's smart."

His unusual facility with Thinkagrams and Thinkamancy are adequately explained by his possession of the Arkendish. I see no reason to multiply explanations (an Occam's Razor sort of cut) beyond that.

That he is strange - well, it's Erfworld. Most of the characters we know about are a little strange (and I do not exclude Parson from that group). Point, perhaps, but ... again, I don't see why a sentient Arkendish would be strange. Or maybe it would, and go out of its way to appear normal.

Speculation is fun, but ... I though (and think) that this is beyond speculation and into invention.

So I said so.

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