Summer Updates - 041

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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Whispri » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:19 am

Ninja wrote:What risk? She could go around the whole kingdom in one turn. She would be back before the others could even MOVE.

The risk of ambush, she could fly straight into a hostile stack. And if she dies her Kingdom dies with her. She's recklessly gambling with other people's lives.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby SteveMB » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:20 am

Whispri wrote:Harsh? Not a bit of it, she had a safe hex behind her she could have fallen back to. And then she could have scouted other hexes while displaying actual caution. And yes I read her excuses, even if he did pay her fees just so she could die running away, if her attitude towards scouting missions wasn't 'chaaaaaaaaarge!' she wouldn't have been in that mess. And she was hired to provide intelligence.

It would seem that Lord Shelby played her when he suggested that she could sack the city herself, and she fell for it. Obviously, it's easier to be angry about Shelby for the former than at herself for the latter.

EDIT: Most sides probably don't do that sort of thing very often, for the same reason Charlie doesn't outright break his contracts -- it damages your ability to do business in the future (i.e. if word gets around that you gave your last batch of mercenaries the mushroom treatment so that you could use them as cannon fodder, it will be harder to hire more mercenaries next time you need them).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Fantabulastic » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:21 am

Everyone keeps referring to Charlie with the third-person, singular personal "he" which makes sense because his/her/its name is, y'know, Charlie; but we don't know that for sure. I'm just saying
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby fehler » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:23 am

Charley's information may be comprimised, but archons are not known for volunteering information.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:28 am

Nebulious wrote:Charlie giving information away for free!? Charlie either has a plan, is desperate, or both.


All this is too one-dimensional, too simplified. Charlie is likely correct that Slately is purposefully lying about his belief that Charlie has allied himself with Stanley—or if he has any doubts about that assumption, he knows that he gains more now by not listening to them. Telling royals that two powerful sides, non-royals with arkentools, are allied is a good way of scaring them into joining. And these are allies that don't cost Jetstone or the RCCII a cent, unlike Charlie.

Killing Stanley is good business for Charlie because it returns things to normal. We don't know how much he's going to give away to Jillian for free, but he's not telling her anything that Jetstone doesn't apparently already know. Think of it, in any case, as a "loss leader." He's giving something away as a way in, he's buying good will and legitimacy. It's a smart investment.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Raza » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:40 am

Whispri wrote:
Ninja wrote:What risk? She could go around the whole kingdom in one turn. She would be back before the others could even MOVE.

The risk of ambush, she could fly straight into a hostile stack. And if she dies her Kingdom dies with her. She's recklessly gambling with other people's lives.

Everything a ruler does is playing with others' lives, and not a single ruler in Erfworld seems to have a nobler cause in mind than their own wants and desires. It's just the way Erf works. She can't be held accountable by earth-ethics for the erfworld mechanic where everybody on her side relies directly on her continued life.

She's no worse than any other ruler there.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:41 am

Anton Gaist wrote:Seriously, where is the ominous thunder? Back home in Überwald it was provided this as a basic service , you know?


I don't think we should be mixing Erfworld with Terry Pratchett. That much punage in one place could go super-nova.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby KiltedNinja » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:46 am

Actually, has anyone maybe considered that Charlie is actually losing it here?

I mean, for example : Charlie's been in Erfworld for "however many" turns. He's done the same thing, day in + day out, consistently. He is very smart, and very confident.

Now, Parson shows up. Suddenly, things are different - suddenly, things are no longer easy-peasy for Charlie to come+go as he pleases. Parson really piqued Charlie's interest because Parson appears to have certain similar mind-set traits.

Then, the boop hits the fan in a major way. If we take the information we have been presented with, as truth - then Charlie's lost his friends ("friends" in a "business-associate" kinda way) - he's lost the plot, and he doesn't know everything that's going on.

It could perhaps be concievable that Charlie isn't some "amazing ultimate thinker person man" - Perhaps Charlie is just a regular dude, like everyone else - who got lucky. Perhaps Charlie really *is* crumbling...
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby PrinceLKlar » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:47 am

On the other side of the world is a pretty vauge place to be located.

Here are my thoughts. Charlie is a tool. "He" is not a unit that is attuned. IT is the tool, the dish. That's Charlie's secret. That's what it doesn't want people to find out. If Stanly learns this, he will want it. If the RCC learns this, they will want it. And It, I think, wants Parson. If Charlie has to finally be used, why not the best mind out there. The only picture I remember seeing of Charlie, is the dish. There are no citys. It has no capitol. It has no lands. It has no other units than the Archons, it's "special unit" and units cost money, something Charlie can only get from others. Charlie has got to pay upkeep and has no other means to get schmuckers. If the dish is all about thinkamancy, then why can't it become sentient after so many years of sitting there thinking to itself.

Anyway, that's how I think of it, and will until proven otherwise.

As for Charlie being in trouble, I think it is. I just don't think it's scared. If nobody hires Charlie, Chralie can't pay upkeep. That would suck, but how long did the dish wait and plan to get to this point? Pretty sure it can do it again. Charlie is just playing all the angles again.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:56 am

DevilDan wrote:Killing Stanley is good business for Charlie because it returns things to normal.


I don't think there will be a return to normal for Charley. Either GK defeats the RCC II, then he will be the next target, or the RCC II conquers GK, then he will be the next target, too. I don't think Slately and Don King will accept a non-royal unit with an attuned arkentool after Stanley's claim of superiority. However, if he allies with Stanley, he will be the much weaker partner and be no more "in charge". If he allies with the RCC II, he can at least hope to play them out against each other.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby badninja » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:14 pm

Wow now I kinda feel sad for the RCC II, they could get all the necessary information from Charlie but will not because of what happened. I think that this is going to really hurt them in the long run because he knows that Parson and Co. have cards up their sleeve. I also feel sorry for Jillian she is going to have one bad day when she gets that image. I cannot wait for the next book with all this new information it is going to be one wild read.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Spot » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:00 pm

PrinceLKlar wrote:On the other side of the world is a pretty vauge place to be located.

Here are my thoughts. Charlie is a tool. "He" is not a unit that is attuned. IT is the tool, the dish. That's Charlie's secret. That's what it doesn't want people to find out. If Stanly learns this, he will want it. If the RCC learns this, they will want it. And It, I think, wants Parson. If Charlie has to finally be used, why not the best mind out there. The only picture I remember seeing of Charlie, is the dish. There are no citys. It has no capitol. It has no lands. It has no other units than the Archons, it's "special unit" and units cost money, something Charlie can only get from others. Charlie has got to pay upkeep and has no other means to get schmuckers. If the dish is all about thinkamancy, then why can't it become sentient after so many years of sitting there thinking to itself.

Anyway, that's how I think of it, and will until proven otherwise.

As for Charlie being in trouble, I think it is. I just don't think it's scared. If nobody hires Charlie, Chralie can't pay upkeep. That would suck, but how long did the dish wait and plan to get to this point? Pretty sure it can do it again. Charlie is just playing all the angles again.



Very interesting theory. I wonder when it will occur, to either Parson or Stanley, to question the Archons about Charlie?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby Glenn » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:01 pm

I really like PrinceLKlar's idea that Charlie might be the Arkendish. Do you remember the character page which came out when Erfworld was just beginning? The Arkenhammer was listed as a character on that page. Maybe all of the Arkentools are sentient, which makes me wonder how the Arkenhammer and the Arkenplyers might be influencing Stanley and Wanda. Stanley did experience an unpleasant buzzing in his mind in the summer update in which he first met Wanda. Could that have been the Arkenhammer? Maybe the real reason why Stanley hates Charlie and Charlie wants to croak Stanley is that the Arkentools are competing.

Vinny says that Jillian's personality and body are changing, as she makes the transition from Barbarian Warlord to Queen. The fact that she survived and (probably) rose to level 9 shows she was a good Barbarian. Let's wait until we see the new Jillian before we say she's an incompetent Ruler.

I wonder what she is demanding from Don King in return for popping a heir? One possibility is that she's demanding enough money to substantially upgrade her capital. If it takes a level 4 city 60 turns to pop a heir, how long does it take a level 6 city? She might say, "If I must have a heir, give me the resources needed to get one quickly."
Another possibility might involve the abilities of the heir. If Jillian is going to invest the time needed to get a heir, she'll want the heir to be able and willing to do something useful for her. Suppose there is some ritual, that allows a Ruler to influence the nature of a heir? If Don or Vinny participated in this 'ritual', might the heir have some Transylyito characteristics, like the ability to fly? If the nature of the heir can be influenced in that way, it may be significant that she's forming an alliance with Charlie. If she got Charlie to help pop the heir, might it be a Thinkamancer as well as a Royal Warlord?
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby joosy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:22 pm

Lightbender wrote:It's also unlikely the cities taken were Charlescomm, remember, he's based on the other side of the world.


Hmm.. I re-read the comic but I don't remember reading that tidbit. Could you link the panel where Charlescomm's location is established, please?
Last edited by joosy on Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby joosy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:31 pm

stm177 wrote:In the previous update, Jetstone also knew that GK had Ansom, and FAQ hasn't been informed. How did Jetstone find out, and why didn't they talk to the other allies in their coalition.


They haven't explicitly revealed how Jetstone knows but I imagine it was information from a beseiged city or a scout unit that managed to send back intel before being croaked or somehow escape.

If I was Jetstone I wouldn't be letting allies know that our former Chief Warlord has turned against us. Especially if I am trying to discredit and blame others (e.g. Charlie) for the loss at GK.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby teratorn » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:40 pm

Fantabulastic wrote:Everyone keeps referring to Charlie with the third-person, singular personal "he" which makes sense because his/her/its name is, y'know, Charlie; but we don't know that for sure. I'm just saying


Maggie refers to Charlie as "him."
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:43 pm

PrinceLKlar wrote:On the other side of the world is a pretty vauge place to be located.

Here are my thoughts. Charlie is a tool. "He" is not a unit that is attuned. IT is the tool, the dish. That's Charlie's secret. That's what it doesn't want people to find out. If Stanly learns this, he will want it. If the RCC learns this, they will want it. And It, I think, wants Parson. If Charlie has to finally be used, why not the best mind out there. The only picture I remember seeing of Charlie, is the dish. There are no citys. It has no capitol. It has no lands.


Charlie has a mountain base.

However, it is still an interesting theory. Tools are apparently capable of deciding who they attune to, so if Charlie is the dish, he could have decided that Parson would be perfect.

It would also explain why nobody every sees Charlie on thinkagrams. Previously, his lack of appearance could have been explained as due to story reasons/reference to the film, but in Today's update, Jillian explicitly is unable to see any person.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:48 pm

I've mused that Charlie may somehow be "fused" to the arkendish.

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:I don't think there will be a return to normal for Charley. Either GK defeats the RCC II, then he will be the next target, or the RCC II conquers GK, then he will be the next target, too. I don't think Slately and Don King will accept a non-royal unit with an attuned arkentool after Stanley's claim of superiority. However, if he allies with Stanley, he will be the much weaker partner and be no more "in charge". If he allies with the RCC II, he can at least hope to play them out against each other.


Royals pride themselves on their honor. If he becomes their ally, they won't attack him without good reason... certainly he's unlikely to face the full brunt of the RCCII, which he could conceivably do if he just sits the conflict out.

His history as a mercenary is probably that of satisfied—if fleeced—customers. He's been useful to them in the past: he just needs to showcase his usefulness and distract the royals from his own humble status as a non-noble.

teratorn wrote:Maggie refers to Charlie as "him."


We know that his voice is that of a man, apparently.
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby yay » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:59 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Anton Gaist wrote:Seriously, where is the ominous thunder? Back home in Überwald it was provided this as a basic service , you know?


I don't think we should be mixing Erfworld with Terry Pratchett. That much punage in one place could go super-nova.


no, i disagree. terry pratchet is like peanut butter, it goes well with almost anything
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Re: Summer Updates - 041

Postby PrinceLKlar » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:03 pm

raphfrk wrote:Charlie has a mountain base.


Supposing for a second that is a city the dish is sitting on, how big is the dish?
Booping huge, that's how big. That looks more like a pedestal to me.

I like the idea that the tools naturally don't like each other. That would help keep one side from gaining too much power. But it appears that they are also drawn to one another.
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