Summer Updates - 043

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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Guurzak » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:10 pm

That's pretty obviously because he's garrison and has 0 move. Queen Bea spent most of her treasury on upgrading her garrison troops to full so that she could order them out of the city, with the obvious inference being that if she had not upgraded them they could not leave.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby therealkami » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:22 pm

Guurzak wrote:That's pretty obviously because he's garrison and has 0 move. Queen Bea spent most of her treasury on upgrading her garrison troops to full so that she could order them out of the city, with the obvious inference being that if she had not upgraded them they could not leave.



Then in the same vein of thinking, if it's obvious that he couldn't cross a hex boundary cause he's garrison and has 0 move, then wouldn't it also be obvious that the reason he didn't disband when crossing the magic portal be because he's a caster? And it's specifically stated that he's a hippiemancer, so I don't see how his lack of stats would affect the ability to cross the magic portal when not being a caster, but would affect his ability to cross hexes. I don't believe that it's ever stated that the casters set up the portals with the defences, but rather that it's just not possible to cross them and not be a caster.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Guurzak » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:28 pm

then wouldn't it also be obvious that the reason he didn't disband when crossing the magic portal be because he's a caster?


Yes. It's not the only possible explanation, but it's the most obvious and likely one. The people who argue that there are other possibilities (Parson is too much of an anomaly to register AND Janice was lying) are admirably clever, but Occam's Razor suggests that we should by default just go with the "Parson is a hippiemancer" theory while remaining aware that probability is not certainty.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Mr. Goodwraith » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:33 pm

My guess is that the Erf system considers Parson a hippiemancer, but not because he can cast spells of that discipline. Rather, he counts as a hippiemancer because he is a "magical" unit fated to bring "peace and renewal" to Erf -- by either conquering the world, breaking the game, or otherwise making it impossible for anyone to wage war (at least in the sense that's traditional and conventional for Erf) any longer.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:41 pm

We know for a fact that there are rules that do not apply to Parson. It's a perfectly valid argument, therefore.

If he is a caster, when did he become one? Was he always capable of magic, even on Earth? Did the spell someone turn him into a caster? In either case, the summoning spell was certainly ambitious!
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby teratorn » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:47 pm

The world only said "chief warlord, level 2, special." My guess is that Janis couldn't know what kind of caster he was, or even if he was one, by claiming him as a hippiemancer she was just voicing her hopes that he would change the world in a way that agrees with the hippiemancer way.

Oh, and by the way, the same way he wasn't disbanded when he didn't obey Stanley out of ignorance, may have been at work there. Erfworlders "know" they'll croak if as non-casters they enter the portal. Parson didn't know if he was a caster, and he ignored what the portal would do to him (including just sending him home).
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:06 pm

Indeed, we have more evidence pointing towards it being impossible to simply disband Parson than we do to him being a caster. Here's another difference: We've never seen a unit bleed in battle. The only hint of blood we've seen is during Jillian's interrogation at Wanda's hands (and those look to me like bruises). Yet in update 25, Parson mentions a bloodstain on his sock due to nicking himself with a pickaxe while preparing for his last stand. Not the hardest evidence, I admit, but I imagine that Parson's ability to take damage (and die) is based on his blood and bones, not any 'life' stat. I could be off base, or misremembering, but I think we're meant to at least ponder the possibility that Parson is alive in a different way than Erfworld natives are.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Sixty » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:11 pm

I've always seen it as Janis covering for him because she thinks he is important to the future of Erfworld and not that he is actually a hippiemancer. Even if he was a caster, his stats are invisible so how would she know? The fact she said he was a hippiemancer is probably because she's a Grand Abbie and seemingly a high up hippiemancer who has some authority, especially when it comes to matters of hippiemancers.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Skyer » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:21 pm

The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.

Who would it summon? Parson is the perfect warlord. If Jetstone cast "Summon Perfect Warlord" then would Parson teleport from Goblin Knob to appear in Jetstone, as a Jetstone unit? He would wind up fighting Wanda, with perfect intel AND having given her tactical advice for the past turns. She'd either have to ditch her best plans, or go ahead with the RCII knowing what she's up to.

Another possibility if the SPW spell was cast is that, since Wanda was distracted while casting, resulting in Parson's odd relitive size, there's a better warlord out there. In which case, Parson would be squaring off against someone that the laws of magic demand is a better warlord. (Unless the caster responsible for the second cast of SPW was also given contradictory or auxiliary instructions.)
As soon as Parson realized that someone else had cast that spell, and that they had a warlord that was his equal or better, he might try the same thing. Have GK recast SPW, and have Perfect Warlord the Third co-operate with Perfect Warlord the First.

Of course, all this is moot if SPW is a once-in-a-game spell.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:38 pm

Skyer wrote:The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.


Do the RCC even know the spell exists? The MK need to step up their marketing of the spell :). Ofc, there were suggestion that it was a once-off special, perhaps part of some plan by the MK. It might have been worth much more than 350k.

Who would it summon? Parson is the perfect warlord. If Jetstone cast "Summon Perfect Warlord" then would Parson teleport from Goblin Knob to appear in Jetstone, as a Jetstone unit? He would wind up fighting Wanda, with perfect intel AND having given her tactical advice for the past turns. She'd either have to ditch her best plans, or go ahead with the RCII knowing what she's up to.


Not necessarily, Parson was the best warlord, subject to all the additional requirements added by Stanley.

Ofc, it would be funny if the RCC cast the spell and their warlord is unable to breathe. Stanley did show some forward planning by requesting that Erf seem reasonably familiar and that the warlord can breathe and speak the language.

Another possibility if the SPW spell was cast is that, since Wanda was distracted while casting, resulting in Parson's odd relitive size, there's a better warlord out there. In which case, Parson would be squaring off against someone that the laws of magic demand is a better warlord. (Unless the caster responsible for the second cast of SPW was also given contradictory or auxiliary instructions.)


It depends on what you mean by perfect. Stanley's requests weren't that unreasonable. Also, the optimal tactical genius over all possible worlds could very easily be less effective than Parson, since Parson played turn based games, and so his effectiveness was more specific to Erfworld.


"I want a
... big guy.
... Big,
... powerful,
... dashing,
... handsome,
... heroic
... a guy who'll shock and awe them, just standing on the city walls, commanding the fight.


"A strategic genius, not an ornament.
... "I want that too""

"Now think.
... I want a guy who's commanded all different kinds of battles.
... I want him to be obsessed with war.
... Somebody who plans wars and kills his foes for fun.
... I want a guy who snacks on gwiffons and eats Marbits for BREAKFAST! "

"And I know the spell will bind him to serve me,
... but I don't want a morale case.
... Get me somebody who actually wants to be summoned. "

"And don't screw up the basics, either.
... He's gotta speak Language.
... Breathe the air and things.
... Everything should seem familiar and safe to him.
... No crazy surprises. "

"Oh all right,
... find your genius.
... Just make him BIG, okay? "

Parson meets pretty much all of those requirements. The only exceptions are the physical characteristics, and Stanley specifically dropped them but insisted on the BIG requirement.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:57 pm

Skyer wrote:The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.



Sure. Wanda didn't know about the spell herself until she was told in the Magic Kingdom. Any side could do the same, and it's not a stretch to believe that any side could be told that GK had purchased such a spell themselves. With a real Findamancer, I don't know who'd they'd get. Someone from Earth, or somewhere else? It would be very interesting to see Jetstone or Transylvito with a warlord equivalent to Parson. Book 2?
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Bahamuttone » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:14 pm

Uhmm I keep seeing people saying that K.C. was cursing the name of Bea,
All that is written is that Ansom was shouting at her chidingly, as seem that the other were doing.

From the http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chiding

chide (chd)
v. chid·ed or chid (chd), chid·ed or chid or chid·den (chdn), chid·ing, chides
v.tr.
To scold mildly so as to correct or improve; reprimand: chided the boy for his sloppiness.
v.intr.
To express disapproval.

So they were NOT cursing or insulting her just expressing their disapporval and, let's say, sorrow in her wrong choice that resulted in the final destruction of her, supposedly, beloved daughter.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be Wanda defender, it's just that it seems that a lot of people get the wrong impression of the events ^^
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby OneHugeTuck » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:18 pm

Guurzak wrote:
then wouldn't it also be obvious that the reason he didn't disband when crossing the magic portal be because he's a caster?


Yes. It's not the only possible explanation, but it's the most obvious and likely one. The people who argue that there are other possibilities (Parson is too much of an anomaly to register AND Janice was lying) are admirably clever, but Occam's Razor suggests that we should by default just go with the "Parson is a hippiemancer" theory while remaining aware that probability is not certainty.



There's also the question of whether the Portal itself croaked Queen Bea, or whether she stepped through and got zapped by casters.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby moose o death » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:29 pm

Skyer wrote:The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.

Who would it summon? Parson is the perfect warlord. If Jetstone cast "Summon Perfect Warlord" then would Parson teleport from Goblin Knob to appear in Jetstone, as a Jetstone unit? He would wind up fighting Wanda, with perfect intel AND having given her tactical advice for the past turns. She'd either have to ditch her best plans, or go ahead with the RCII knowing what she's up to.

Another possibility if the SPW spell was cast is that, since Wanda was distracted while casting, resulting in Parson's odd relitive size, there's a better warlord out there. In which case, Parson would be squaring off against someone that the laws of magic demand is a better warlord. (Unless the caster responsible for the second cast of SPW was also given contradictory or auxiliary instructions.)
As soon as Parson realized that someone else had cast that spell, and that they had a warlord that was his equal or better, he might try the same thing. Have GK recast SPW, and have Perfect Warlord the Third co-operate with Perfect Warlord the First.

Of course, all this is moot if SPW is a once-in-a-game spell.


because that story has already been told. if balder just keeps finding new perfect warlords every time two cities have an arguement, we'll probably stop reading.

i'm pretty sure the perfect warlord spell summons parson. it was never meant for GK. and the high costs were due to the alternate world parson had to be constructed within. he had to develop from different rules to know what erfworld could be like.

it may be that the MK was intending to use parson to lead THEIR forces into battle to liberate erfworld. but saw they could probably achieve something similar through GK and the arkentools.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:38 pm

By the way, I wonder if the portal in the capital of Unaroyal still works. Could GK send a caster trough their gate and the magic kingdom directly into the capital? Could Sizemore, Maggie or jack capture the city? Not that it was worth the risk. But they could send next time the casters trough the gate, leave a crap-golem-bomb behind and disable the gate for a certain time.
And if GK rebuilds the capital, will the gate still work? They could send their casters in no time from one end of their empire to the other, without using the move of the dwagons for transport or the archons' for scouting.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Anton Gaist » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:54 pm

Skyer wrote:The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.

Who would it summon? Parson is the perfect warlord. If Jetstone cast "Summon Perfect Warlord" then would Parson teleport from Goblin Knob to appear in Jetstone, as a Jetstone unit? He would wind up fighting Wanda, with perfect intel AND having given her tactical advice for the past turns. She'd either have to ditch her best plans, or go ahead with the RCII knowing what she's up to.

Another possibility if the SPW spell was cast is that, since Wanda was distracted while casting, resulting in Parson's odd relitive size, there's a better warlord out there. In which case, Parson would be squaring off against someone that the laws of magic demand is a better warlord. (Unless the caster responsible for the second cast of SPW was also given contradictory or auxiliary instructions.)
As soon as Parson realized that someone else had cast that spell, and that they had a warlord that was his equal or better, he might try the same thing. Have GK recast SPW, and have Perfect Warlord the Third co-operate with Perfect Warlord the First.

Of course, all this is moot if SPW is a once-in-a-game spell.


Parson is the perfect warlord as thought by Stanley and selected by Wanda. Another ruler and caster would likely summon someone else, according to their needs and specifications.

As for it not getting enough attention, I'd say it has, but it's unlikely it'll be done right away. There are already quite a few antagonists in the story already, and the RCC2 isn't against the ropes yet. I'd say, once Jetsome falls and Transylvito is in danger, then we'll see a new Perfect Warlord. They are really expensive, after all, and a ruler that already has a trusted, effective Chief Warlord wouldn't likely agree to do it.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby build6 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 pm

atteSmythe wrote:Indeed, we have more evidence pointing towards it being impossible to simply disband Parson than we


you're thinking of that bit where Stanley couldn't understand how Parson didn't disband when he failed to "observe" things in order to give them his bonus?
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:12 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:By the way, I wonder if the portal in the capital of Unaroyal still works. Could GK send a caster trough their gate and the magic kingdom directly into the capital? Could Sizemore, Maggie or jack capture the city? Not that it was worth the risk. But they could send next time the casters trough the gate, leave a crap-golem-bomb behind and disable the gate for a certain time.


I assume the MK have rules against tactical use of the portals in that way.

However, it is a good point. It might even be worth a suicide run. They could have exchanged one of GK's casters for capturing all 4 of Unaroyal's casters.

The caster would just need to disable the portal at the key time, just before the garrison falls.

If a caster can quickly create a bomb, it might be possible to jump back through the portal before the bomb goes off.

And if GK rebuilds the capital, will the gate still work? They could send their casters in no time from one end of their empire to the other, without using the move of the dwagons for transport or the archons' for scouting.


More importantly, Wanda can use the portals. However, I wonder if the Arkenpliers can be taken to the Magic Kingdom. Since it is a goal/flag item, it might be unable to be moved through the portal. Also, even if it can be, there would be a risk of it being stolen.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:49 pm

build6 wrote:
atteSmythe wrote:Indeed, we have more evidence pointing towards it being impossible to simply disband Parson than we


you're thinking of that bit where Stanley couldn't understand how Parson didn't disband when he failed to "observe" things in order to give them his bonus?

Lots of little things, none definitive. He also disobeyed a direct order to stop speaking, back in book 1. Personally, I'm more of the opinion that Parson didn't disband for failing to walk around the city primarily because he didn't knowingly disobey the order (any other unit would've known instinctively or be told via natural thinkamancy - something else that seems different about Parson). But it could also be because he's unable to be disbanded...the latter would explain two or three events, where the former requires another explanation to cover the others.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:51 pm

[quote="atteSmythe"That's an interesting question, actually - what happens if you throw an orange (or something else that isn't a unit) into the magic portal? Is it destroyed, or does it bounce out on the magic kindgom side?[/quote]

I think objects would make it through the portal. Even though it's a (very) small sample, it looks like Capitol Cities (perhaps major city) has a portal to Magic Isle. If a new side come into creation, they may not have any casters. So to be able to employ some casters, the new ruler needs a way to contact Magic Isle. <Maxwell Smart>"The old message tied to a rock trick"</Maxwell Smart> would work quite well. :D
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