Summer Updates - 043

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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Lord Kasavin » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:54 am

Alex_Knight wrote:Something occurs to me with all this talk about Parson and what he can or cannot do.

Maybe Erfworld's rules, like the "Disband if you don't follow the orders" incident, and the "Can't pass a hex" incident only affect him if he knows about it.

I mean, Stanley thought he should have disbanded because he didn't do the job....but that was because Parson didn't know he had to walk around.
When he tried to cross a hexside, he was wearing the glasses, so he could see the hexside. What if he didn't see it, so he wouldn't know when he was crossing?


I theorize its more universal than that. Units are all compelled to follow orders AS BEST THEY CAN. You can't ask a Twoll to read you a book since they appear illiterate. However, the Twoll in questin may still attempt to follow orders by describing the pictures or the shape of the letters ("Triangle thin followed by circle and...").

Parson believed he was following orders when he spent the day in the study instead of "managing" the city. Thats because he lacked the knowledge to a good job with the order. Not knowing how to manage a city is "inconceivable" for a warlord, at least for Stanley. Hence the aggitation. Yet, the same is probably true for all units.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby teratorn » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:17 am

The reaction to this ought to be curious. We've seen that even "cool" sides like TV deep below are as royalist as Jetstone. It would have been fun, instead of Cruz talking to Bea, having Vinny talking face to face with Ansom.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby name lips » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:23 am

teratorn wrote:The reaction to this ought to be curious. We've seen that even "cool" sides like TV deep below are as royalist as Jetstone. It would have been fun, instead of Cruz talking to Bea, having Vinny talking face to face with Ansom.

I hope that scene is coming... but it's big enough it should be in the next book. I'm thinking Vinnie/Jillian meeting Ansom face to face.

Maybe with a hex boundry like in this update, so they can talk without fireworks.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Alex_Knight » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:58 am

Tubal-Cain wrote:
Alex_Knight wrote:What if he didn't see it, so he wouldn't know when he was crossing?

The border resistance may still be present, and that would alert him to the boundaries.


But what if the resistance depends on him knowing the border is there?
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby KiltedNinja » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:25 am

Alex_Knight wrote:
Tubal-Cain wrote:
Alex_Knight wrote:What if he didn't see it, so he wouldn't know when he was crossing?

The border resistance may still be present, and that would alert him to the boundaries.


But what if the resistance depends on him knowing the border is there?


The way I see it, it's like this : ...What about Parson trying to fly a dragon..? To Parson, at the time, there was no specific "you can" or "you can't" (regardless of what Sizemore and Maggie said, in Parson's mind there was no ultimate clarification). He couldn't fly one.

Dragons, typically, are great big floaty reptillian beasties, usually capable of immense feats of strength. I fail to see how, in "reality", a dragon of that size wouldn't be able to carry a regular dude like Parson. But, obviously Erfworld has it's own opinion on this, as well as other laws of physics...
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Ghanur » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:45 am

Sixty wrote:I've always seen it as Janis covering for him because she thinks he is important to the future of Erfworld and not that he is actually a hippiemancer. Even if he was a caster, his stats are invisible so how would she know? The fact she said he was a hippiemancer is probably because she's a Grand Abbie and seemingly a high up hippiemancer who has some authority, especially when it comes to matters of hippiemancers.

Could it be, that Janice was the one "forming" the scroll that Wanda used?
Out of this, Janice knows exactly what Parson is... a tool :!: of her vision.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Menlo Marseilles » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:09 am

Ghanur wrote:Could it be, that Janice was the one "forming" the scroll that Wanda used?
Out of this, Janice knows exactly what Parson is... a tool :!: of her vision.
Seems unlikely to me, unless there's a lot more going on behind the scenes than we're being let in on. Janis is a master Hippiemancer, whereas for all the effort and magical power that went into it, the scroll was almost certainly the work of a Findamancer and a Predictamancer.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:15 am

Menlo Marseilles wrote:Janis is a master Hippiemancer, whereas for all the effort and magical power that went into it, the scroll was almost certainly the work of a Findamancer and a Predictamancer.


Apparently, it was created by the findamancers and predictamancers in the MK, to be cast by a findamancer, but the spell was actually a findamancy/lookamancy "thing".
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Tubal-Cain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:25 pm

KiltedNinja wrote:Dragons, typically, are great big floaty reptillian beasties, usually capable of immense feats of strength. I fail to see how, in "reality", a dragon of that size wouldn't be able to carry a regular dude like Parson. But, obviously Erfworld has it's own opinion on this, as well as other laws of physics...

Dragons are rarely drawn with realistic wing sizes. Let's compare to geese: up to 14 pounds and they have a 5-foot wingspan. I'll be generous and say Banana has a 30-foot wingspan. By real-world physics, it shouldn't be able to fly at all, much less carry Parson.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Phædrus2129 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:33 pm

Even more so, since the law of lift is a cubic function, not linear. So a realistic dragon of that apparent mass might need a hundred foot wingspan; its wings would be like a tent.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Tubal-Cain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:41 pm

Phædrus2129 wrote:...since the law of lift is a cubic function, not linear.

Yeah, I kinda knew that. I just don't know how to convert it into an estimate of appropriate wing size.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby ftl » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:54 pm

KiltedNinja wrote:
Dragons, typically, are great big floaty reptillian beasties, usually capable of immense feats of strength. I fail to see how, in "reality", a dragon of that size wouldn't be able to carry a regular dude like Parson. But, obviously Erfworld has it's own opinion on this, as well as other laws of physics...


The relevant point isn't so much whether a dragon could carry parson "in reality" - "in reality" dragons couldn't even exist. However, parson would EXPECT a dragon to be able to carry him, based on what dragons are usually described as.

Obviously, his expectations were wrong - it IS possible for something he doesn't know to hurt him :)
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Yosarian » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:17 am

Skyer wrote:The idea of the Findamancer summoning another "Perfect Warlord" spell has been suggested. Why has this not gotten more attention?

We know such a spell exists, and the odds are good that if one city under seige, fighting the whole world, had enough for the spell, then RCII can afford it. We know they have casters- perhaps not Wanda's equal, but probably at least one who specialized in spells like that. So, we know RCII could conceivably obtain and cast such a spell.

Who would it summon? Parson is the perfect warlord. If Jetstone cast "Summon Perfect Warlord" then would Parson teleport from Goblin Knob to appear in Jetstone, as a Jetstone unit? He would wind up fighting Wanda, with perfect intel AND having given her tactical advice for the past turns. She'd either have to ditch her best plans, or go ahead with the RCII knowing what she's up to.

Another possibility if the SPW spell was cast is that, since Wanda was distracted while casting, resulting in Parson's odd relitive size, there's a better warlord out there. In which case, Parson would be squaring off against someone that the laws of magic demand is a better warlord. (Unless the caster responsible for the second cast of SPW was also given contradictory or auxiliary instructions.)
As soon as Parson realized that someone else had cast that spell, and that they had a warlord that was his equal or better, he might try the same thing. Have GK recast SPW, and have Perfect Warlord the Third co-operate with Perfect Warlord the First.

Of course, all this is moot if SPW is a once-in-a-game spell.


I suspect, mostly because of the stuff Janis said when talking with Sizemore, that the "perfect warlord" spell (which was "throbbing with Fate magic") was a very specific attempt on the part of the Magic Kingdom to change the future of Erfworld, to make it no longer a place of constant, unending war. If so, they probably won't do it again.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby ShieldOfAthena » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:33 am

Wait, wait... when the unit came to tell her Cruz asked for a meeting, she wrote "I almost disbanded him" so why did she promote the units from the garrison and then kill herself to disband all of them? Why not just disband them by thought alone, shuffle off her whole treasury to an ally via some method (give it to her casters to take through the magic portal and ask them to see it that it gets into Don's hands) and then kill herself?

I realize the answer is probably either "She didn't think of it" "There was no way to transport the treasury" or "the authors didn't think of it, or if they did rejected it for lacking dramatic appeal." but now it is bothering me. :lol:
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby atteSmythe » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:05 am

ShieldOfAthena wrote:Wait, wait... when the unit came to tell her Cruz asked for a meeting, she wrote "I almost disbanded him" so why did she promote the units from the garrison and then kill herself to disband all of them? Why not just disband them by thought alone, shuffle off her whole treasury to an ally via some method (give it to her casters to take through the magic portal and ask them to see it that it gets into Don's hands) and then kill herself?

I realize the answer is probably either "She didn't think of it" "There was no way to transport the treasury" or "the authors didn't think of it, or if they did rejected it for lacking dramatic appeal." but now it is bothering me. :lol:

She almost disbanded him in a moment's rage. That's quite different from forming the intent to disband thousands of units - kill thousands of her own people! People she knows and cares about. In the back of her mind, she knows that by destroying herself, she's dooming them all, sure. She just has to muster the courage to kill one person, not basically everyone she knows, and who relies on her.

Sitting here, reading detached and in safety, it's easy for us to say that they're the same thing, but they're not for Bea. She just killed herself, and Erfworld killed the rest of her side. It's probably the only way that she could bring herself to implement the plan.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:16 am

ShieldOfAthena wrote:Wait, wait... when the unit came to tell her Cruz asked for a meeting, she wrote "I almost disbanded him" so why did she promote the units from the garrison and then kill herself to disband all of them? Why not just disband them by thought alone, shuffle off her whole treasury to an ally via some method (give it to her casters to take through the magic portal and ask them to see it that it gets into Don's hands) and then kill herself?

I realize the answer is probably either "She didn't think of it" "There was no way to transport the treasury" or "the authors didn't think of it, or if they did rejected it for lacking dramatic appeal." but now it is bothering me. :lol:


She may have had to "manually" disband each unit in turn. She had thousands of them. Her method was easier and also, a Ruler might have finite "juice" per turn. There could be a limit to the max number of disbands.

Also, it could be like the difference between killing 1000 people by dropping bombs and one by one with a hand gun.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby moose o death » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:12 pm

it was the most humane way. she undoes all of unaroyal without pain or humiliation. an alliance with the decrypted would be nothing short of constant fear. and disbanding the troops one by one still results in her having to commit suicide. whereas doing that FIRST expediates the whole process.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby raphfrk » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:17 am

moose o death wrote:it was the most humane way. she undoes all of unaroyal without pain or humiliation. an alliance with the decrypted would be nothing short of constant fear. and disbanding the troops one by one still results in her having to commit suicide. whereas doing that FIRST expediates the whole process.


That's a good point about fear. It wouldn't be pleasant seeing around half the rest of the army de-pop one by one.

Also, they might try to stop her. The warlords can disregard an order if they feel it will lead to the Ruler's destruction.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby moose o death » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:38 am

the fear bit was about an alliance. how would you feel fighting alongside decrypted. everytime a friendly unit in your stack dies they get raised again with a brand new world view. at turns end. you get to camp out in field with a combination of soon to be decrypted and recently decrypted...just wondering when you'll be turned.

they may have all the memories of your friends but they aren't them. but there they are reminding you of what happens to unaroyal troops who aren't good enough.
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Re: Summer Updates - 043

Postby Bahamuttone » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:12 am

moose o death wrote:the defnition of irony is being manhandled again.

buffalo wings is irony
especially if you have the graphic of a buffalo with wings backing up an otherwise chicken based dish.


I always tought that it was Buffalo in the sense of the city like wings cooked like they do in Buffalo...
[Sorry for the OT]
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