Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby No one in particular » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:30 pm

… my god. I just realized this:
Frenemy & Quisling.
Frenemy and Quisling.
Frenemy And Quisling.
FAQ.

Okay, hear me out here… F&Q got suckered into an alliance with Haffaton and ganged up on Goodminton. Sometime after taking down the Firebaughs, they woke up smelled the roses: Haffaton was always expanding, and looking for new conquests and cities. Maybe they demanded tributes from the sides they were "allied" with, maybe F&Q just started getting paranoid… either way, F&Q didn't feel safe around Haffaton anymore, and made plans to escape.

Between the two sides, they scouted far and wide until they found a new capital city where they could hide. One of them claimed it, switched Capitals, and the two entered a permanent alliance, officially becoming one side… Faq. They razed all their old cities, left no forwarding address, and tried to keep their heads down until someone else took care of Haffaton.

The money from the razing let them become a bubble for a while, but as it dwindled they eventually had to supplement it with mercenary work.

All of this happened before Jillian popped, probably even before Banhammer was popped.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Morni » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:33 pm

effataigus wrote:

Well spank me red, ....


try to help someone, and they will give you horrible vision... i'm not spanking an owl until it turns red.. no way!!!

effataigus wrote:Thanks, Morni!


you're welcome... i like finding those things
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Cool theory No One, and I have noticed that F&Q slash FAQ thing before, but there is one big problem. FAQ already existed as a bubble kingdom when Wanda popped, and they started popping Jillian when Wanda was a dozen turns old. So there isn't nearly enough time in between the fall of Goodminton and Jillian's birth for that to be true.
I agree that the connection between the names must be significant, but not in the way you're suggesting.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby memnarch » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:00 pm

Aquillion wrote:...The problem with this is the rule of narrative detail: Jillian specifically noted that the fact that the city was apparently crushed from the air and the presence of the Tennenbaums were weird.

The narrative wouldn't have bothered to cover that if it weren't important in some way, and your explanations (while they technically satisfy) are boring. I mean, so what? Why waste a paragraph or two to have Jillian wonder at how odd it was for the city to be smashed from the sky if that doesn't have any narrative significance?

...

Jillian doesn't know that the city was crushed from the air, she thought that there must have been fliers because of the lack of tower spells.
IP episode 48 wrote:Now she absorbed what the pieces on the map were telling her. The situation was bad, of course, but the forces which tore this place apart weren’t represented on the battlefield. Goodminton had felt bold enough to send Lady Firebaugh out to counterattack. But that was a sucker play; something they never knew about hit this city—the tannenbaums, and maybe some air forces, judging by how the tower spells had been spent.


Now, there may have been spells placed on the tower in the meantime, but this last line makes me think not:
IP episode 22 wrote:"That's good," she said, and stepped around him to evade his breath attack. She headed out of the room, with him following closely behind. "Do you want to make scrolls, then? Or can you hang those spells on the tower?"

"I think I'll just wait to cast if we're attacked, if that's okay," he said. "More flexible that way, and it's not like I'm goin' anywhere."


And with Delphi being uncooperative, it seems likely that no more spells were placed on the tower. Heck, with Clay saying that he could cast on the enemy without spelling up the tower, Delphi might have used up all the spells hitting Frenemy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Thoke » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:23 pm

memnarch wrote:Now, there may have been spells placed on the tower in the meantime, but this last line makes me think not:

IP episode 22 wrote:"That's good," she said, and stepped around him to evade his breath attack. She headed out of the room, with him following closely behind. "Do you want to make scrolls, then? Or can you hang those spells on the tower?"

"I think I'll just wait to cast if we're attacked, if that's okay," he said. "More flexible that way, and it's not like I'm goin' anywhere."



Yeah, I thought the same at start, but there was a mention in the end of IP 20 that Delphie was ready to cast at Quisling after Frenemy left the airspace, and that seems to imply more that there were spells left on the tower. What else could she cast on those flyers than 100% accurate shockamancy from the tower? And if it was something else than the tower spells it seems odd that Rob didn't mention specifically what. Basically the whole page talked about Delphie firing the tower spells.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby No one in particular » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:55 pm

0beron wrote:Cool theory No One, and I have noticed that F&Q slash FAQ thing before, but there is one big problem. FAQ already existed as a bubble kingdom when Wanda popped, and they started popping Jillian when Wanda was a dozen turns old. So there isn't nearly enough time in between the fall of Goodminton and Jillian's birth for that to be true.
I agree that the connection between the names must be significant, but not in the way you're suggesting.

Yeah, going back and looking at the timeline and events, I see that I was wrong.

F&Q attacked Goodminton and were driven off, unsuccessful in attacking it. (IPTSF 20)
5 turns later, Wanda meets Jack & Marie in the MK (it doesn't specify which side they belonged to, though… just that they're in green) (21)
17 turns after the attack, Goodminton is down to just the capital, and F&Q are missing (25)
The next day, Wanda's on the road and Goodminton fell. (26)

By the time we start following Jillian, she hasn't put up with people calling her Princess for 200+ turns (27), Faq's been around about 1000 turns, and Haffaton is said to be old enough to remember Banhammer before he went into hiding (28)... but I don't see anything indicating how many turns have passed between IPTSF 26 & 27.

I'll go back and check the text again in more detail (need to add more refs for the wiki anyway…) but could you point me in the direction of where it specifically says Faq was around before Wanda popped?

So, here's my revised theory:
    1. F&Q attack Goodminton, get driven off
    2. Both are sick of Haffaton (no help in the fight) and Goodminton (they beat us!), say screw it, join forces and find a new place to live
    3. Wanda meets Maria & Jack in MK
    4. Marie realizes Wanda is Predicted to destroy FAQ, tries to avert it by telling Banhammer to taking out Goodminton (with the Prediction that it'll work this time!)
    5. Banhammer starts popping Jillian to be on the safe side
    6. Wanda's out on the road, Goodminton falls, Marie feels good about saving Faq
    7. Much later, as Haffaton starts to encroach on Faq, Marie checks the future and isn't sure if it'll destroy Faq or not... until she hears that the Croakamancer Firebaugh is with them, and realizes she didn't die with Goodminton.

Admittedly, this would mean that Jillian put up with being called Princess for about 700 turns or so, which is kind of unlikely... ;p
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:10 pm

No one in particular wrote:I'll go back and check the text again in more detail (need to add more refs for the wiki anyway…) but could you point me in the direction of where it specifically says Faq was around before Wanda popped?

It doesn't ever say it explicitly, it's just something I have inferred. The sequence seems to be: Marie and Jack first meet Wanda, Marie immediately gets the prediction, and she returns to tell Banhammer and Jillian begins popping. Since FAQ was already a bubble kingdom when Jillian was popped, that would mean FAQ existed long before Wanda popped.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Mogster2 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm

OvaltinePatrol wrote:
joosy wrote:Heh “Why don’t you have a seat over there?” Chris Hansen would be proud :)


Oh lord...Pedal Bear.

Not sure whether to /lol or /facepalm...

Stanley once held 11 cities. Maybe those are the cities currently owned by Haffaton? FAQ takes Haffaton, Wanda joins them before or after the fact (I'm guessing during, actually - see spoiler), then Gobwin Knob takes FAQ, gaining several cities in the process.

Wanda's had a lot of time to figure out how to be Haffaton's poison pill. She knows Olive's casting will prevent any sort of violence against her. However, there is one thing all the Hippiemancy in Erfworld can't prevent:
Spoiler: show
a kiss. I'm betting that when the time comes, Wanda will do to Olive exactly what Olive did to Tommy.

Or I could be talking crazy. We'll see.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Nnelg » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:45 am

Hm... It very much seems to me that if Delphie was only as good at predicting peoples reactions as she was their Fate, then she could have avoided a whole lot of pain...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Smoker » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:53 am

It is quite possible that by the time Delphie had driven off Frenemy, she had used all the tower spells and was firing off her own juice.

The short stand-off with Quisling was then esssentially a bluff, although Clay and Wanda could have replaced Delphie if required.

Haffaton later invaded Goodminton and used it for the tiny amount of upkeep it would provide, without bothering to invest in repairs.

That seems to me to be the simplest explanation.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:11 am

Smoker wrote:It is quite possible that by the time Delphie had driven off Frenemy, she had used all the tower spells and was firing off her own juice.

I don't believe so, because it is explained that Delphi was using her Juice to Predict the shots, and the shots themselves were coming from the Tower.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Cantripmancer » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:05 pm

Greetings from the 'mancer of minimal effects. I've felt the desire to post several times now, but the current page was apparently the cantrip that broke the camel's back. And in rereading, I'm not even sure that my original intent to post now holds up, but in for a schmucker...

For some reason, I always thought that the end of book 0, part 1 was a result of Overlord Firebaugh suiciding rather than being attacked by another side. Reading it again, I see that that's nowhere near explicit, but it struck me as strange that Wanda didn't get a hat message saying "We're under attack!" Combined with a fatalistic reading of O. Firebaugh in ep. 25, and I thought it proceeded as such:

1. O. Firebaugh resigns himself and Goodminton to fate, which is to fall.
2. He allows Wanda to leave, knowing she'll never go along with his plan.
3. Either in retaliation for the sorrow (blaming the messenger) or because she interferes with what he's doing, he attacks Delphie (resulting in her being injured when Wanda senses her).
4. He then sends the gem/note and disbands the side, choosing how he goes out rather than fall to a specific enemy.

We've seen that rulers can and will disband their side/themselves if they desire.

On the contrary, O. Firebaugh would have had to have known how bad of a situation he was placing Wanda in (if the stack max is 8), but maybe he was finally convinced by Delphie and opted for the easy way, that being to deliver Wanda to Haffaton.

Also on the contrary, I would expect that a side-disbanding order would occur all at once rather than units disbanding unit by unit...but again, O. Firebaugh could likely proceed how he desired.

======================

My only other comment is on the people who are speculating that Wanda turns to FAQ and takes all her uncroaked with her. Unless I greatly misunderstood, uncroaked are still in thrall to the side's ruler (backed up, I think by Wanda's unstacked uncroaked disappearing when Goodminton fell). Decrypted may be another story, but I would think that Wanda turning from Haffaton to FAQ would result in only her turning and her uncroaked remaining Haffaton'd.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby bladestorm » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:48 pm

Cantripmancer wrote:Greetings from the 'mancer of minimal effects. I've felt the desire to post several times now, but the current page was apparently the cantrip that broke the camel's back. And in rereading, I'm not even sure that my original intent to post now holds up, but in for a schmucker...

For some reason, I always thought that the end of book 0, part 1 was a result of Overlord Firebaugh suiciding rather than being attacked by another side. Reading it again, I see that that's nowhere near explicit, but it struck me as strange that Wanda didn't get a hat message saying "We're under attack!" Combined with a fatalistic reading of O. Firebaugh in ep. 25, and I thought it proceeded as such:

1. O. Firebaugh resigns himself and Goodminton to fate, which is to fall.
2. He allows Wanda to leave, knowing she'll never go along with his plan.
3. Either in retaliation for the sorrow (blaming the messenger) or because she interferes with what he's doing, he attacks Delphie (resulting in her being injured when Wanda senses her).
4. He then sends the gem/note and disbands the side, choosing how he goes out rather than fall to a specific enemy.

We've seen that rulers can and will disband their side/themselves if they desire.

On the contrary, O. Firebaugh would have had to have known how bad of a situation he was placing Wanda in (if the stack max is 8), but maybe he was finally convinced by Delphie and opted for the easy way, that being to deliver Wanda to Haffaton.

Also on the contrary, I would expect that a side-disbanding order would occur all at once rather than units disbanding unit by unit...but again, O. Firebaugh could likely proceed how he desired.

======================

My only other comment is on the people who are speculating that Wanda turns to FAQ and takes all her uncroaked with her. Unless I greatly misunderstood, uncroaked are still in thrall to the side's ruler (backed up, I think by Wanda's unstacked uncroaked disappearing when Goodminton fell). Decrypted may be another story, but I would think that Wanda turning from Haffaton to FAQ would result in only her turning and her uncroaked remaining Haffaton'd.

Welcome to the Forums.

Stacks do not max at 8. Stack bonus maxes at 8, so you rarely see stacks larger than that. Spidews get a special bonus on stacks of exactly 23.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby 0beron » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Cantripmancer wrote:For some reason, I always thought that the end of book 0, part 1 was a result of Overlord Firebaugh suiciding rather than being attacked by another side.

This theory is impossible, because Wanda wouldn't have the senses of an Overlord until Firebaugh was already dead.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby asparagus » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:40 pm

No one in particular wrote:… my god. I just realized this:
Frenemy & Quisling.
Frenemy and Quisling.
Frenemy And Quisling.
FAQ.


Another possibility is that Frenemy and Quisling were actually splitoffs from FAQ, set up in part as buffers against Haffaton. If Banhammer took all the people who knew about the secret capital site with him into hiding, that may have given him enough time to set up the bubble thing.

So the next prequel could end up being about how Banhammer found the site - if anyone cares enough about him.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby bladestorm » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:06 pm

asparagus wrote:
No one in particular wrote:… my god. I just realized this:
Frenemy & Quisling.
Frenemy and Quisling.
Frenemy And Quisling.
FAQ.


Another possibility is that Frenemy and Quisling were actually splitoffs from FAQ, set up in part as buffers against Haffaton. If Banhammer took all the people who knew about the secret capital site with him into hiding, that may have given him enough time to set up the bubble thing.

So the next prequel could end up being about how Banhammer found the site - if anyone cares enough about him.

There are plenty of other stories I'd be more interested in as prequels:
Stanley's rise to power up through Saline's death and the taking of Faq (we can piece together what happens between there and Warchalking).
The earlier years of Jetstone, including Prince Forthewin's romance with a certain archer.
Janis's origins
The history of Transylvito up until 500 BW.
A tale of a wandering explorer that goes through the various regions and landscapes of Erfworld. (Though maybe Jillian can fulfill some of this once she goes Barbarian)
The earlier days of Unaroyal, for a glimpse into how the original caster line-up worked for that side. (Might be able to squeeze this into the current prequel) This gives up more info on Jojo, Sylvia, Bowie, Spenser and Vanna.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby No one in particular » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:30 pm

Ooh, how about this for the wandering explorer?

A decrypted Ruler, the last survivor of his Side... as a Ruler, he can make his own decisions and not auto-engage with anyone, and as a decrypted, he has no upkeep and no ties.

I mean, who's to say Wanda was the first to attune to the 'pliers? :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby joosy » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:09 pm

No one in particular wrote:Ooh, how about this for the wandering explorer?

A decrypted Ruler, the last survivor of his Side... as a Ruler, he can make his own decisions and not auto-engage with anyone, and as a decrypted, he has no upkeep and no ties.

I mean, who's to say Wanda was the first to attune to the 'pliers? :D


That would be a barbarian.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby No one in particular » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:52 pm

joosy wrote:That would be a barbarian.

Pretty much, but it would also be one that didn't have to maintain a purse.

Less fighting and foraging, more sight-seeing that way.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 048

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:54 am

I would like to see a prequel about Charlie.
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