Book 2 – Page 101

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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:57 pm

ShieldOfAthena wrote:Wanda may be the only person on Erfworld capable of launching a legitimate attack on the MK. Can't think of a good reason for it off-hand, but you never know.

Charlie might be able to too. It depends what the implications of that multi hex link are. For all we know he can just zap peoples brains from the other side of the world, Cerebro style.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby ftl » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:00 pm

Well, there isn't a portal there in JS anymore...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby bladestorm » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:47 pm

ShieldOfAthena wrote:
bladestorm wrote:With Wanda conveniently trapped in MK, if he loses any Archons in this battle, he doesn't have to worry about seeing them again in someone else's raiment.
Bodies only depop if not moved. If I had a a dozen Archon corpses laying around, you can bet I'd move them. Right to wherever Wanda was, by preference.

Holy crap.... non-casters can't go through the portal into the MK. But objects can, would dead bodies go through the portal just fine? Could Parson and Wanda make a (literal) mountain of corpses and toss them all into the MK, have Wanda go through and decrypt them? Wanda may be the only person on Erfworld capable of launching a legitimate attack on the MK. Can't think of a good reason for it off-hand, but you never know.

Prime example of selective quoting. There would be no one around to move them, so no way of getting the bodies to Wanda before they depop (or anywhere for that matter). The purpose of having all of those Archons there would be to completely obliterate whatever GK force was in that hex, with so much overkill that Charlescomm makes sure Parson's not getting out of it alive, and neither is anyone else in that hex that would be deemed a potential threat.

So if I were Charlescomm, and I had a dozen Archon corpses laying around, I'd use the rest of the remaining Archons available and whatever other forces I could bring to bear to prevent anyone from touching the bodies until they depopped. Or destroy the bodies.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Xorbon » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:55 am

Did anyone else notice that the tusks on the elephants are retractable? I haven't seen anyone mention it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Krennson » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:32 am

is it just me, or are there an increasing number of reasons for why Parson should defect to Jetstone at this point? He's seperated from Stanley and Wanda, so he could turn while still leaving them as the opposition. He's chief warlord with personal command of the battle for spacerock, so he could probably order his local troops to turn with him. Jack is with him and would probably be willing to turn, so we get to keep our favorite foolamancer. Turning would put him on the same side as Ace, which is a match made in heaven. Turning is also the easiest way to unite the garrison in order to fight the fire before it gets out of control.

King Slately might agree to declare war on Charlie, which Parson could use to justify turning, as he would be able to prosecute an intelligent war against his major enemy, which Stanley would never permit him to do. Trammennis might sign a non-agression pact, which would soften the blow of betraying Gobwin Knob. And if spacerock were restored as the capital, or Parson was allowed to travel to Jetstones alternate capital, Parson could invite thinkamancers in from the magic kingdom to discuss the charlie scenario. Maggie and Sizemore are still in the magic kingdom, and might be convinced to turn as well, joining Parson and Jetstone; Stanley the tool isn't in a position to stop them right now.

I'm not saying that Parson WILL turn, or even that he should turn... It just seems that there are an increasing number of reasons and advantages if he WERE to decide to turn.

As an alternate scenario, he could even found a third side as an 'open city'. Either Parson or King Slately breaks off from their original side, creating a third side with sworn neutrality towards both parties in the conflict. Everyone in the garrison is ordered by their commanders to turn to the new, third side. Parson or King Slately is the ruler, and the other is Heir. Not sure who would get the formal title of chief warlord in that scenario. The open city of spacerock agrees to provide troops and supplies to whichever faction exerts force majeure over the city, and spends its time exporting mercenary military advisors trained at Parson's version of Officer Candidate School, and planning for an inevitable alliance to defeat charlie.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby name lips » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:08 am

Before Fakely and Ace attacked the garrison, the only reason GK hadn't won the city was because Ace remained undiscovered and alive.

Now, the only units present are the ones involved in that attack. I think all the Jetstone units in the courtyard just croaked. Which means the only ones left are Fakely and his entourage in the throne room.

If Parson's little group can croak them, and it should be a fairly small-scale engagement, then they win the city and can put out the fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Infidel » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:37 am

I can help but wonder if the "Does it matter" question is a Hillary reference. Being that this page was released about the same time. Pretty big coincidence is more likely, but still interesting.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby C9H20 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:16 am

Krennson wrote:is it just me, or are there an increasing number of reasons for why Parson should defect to Jetstone at this point? He's seperated from Stanley and Wanda, so he could turn while still leaving them as the opposition. He's chief warlord with personal command of the battle for spacerock, so he could probably order his local troops to turn with him. Jack is with him and would probably be willing to turn, so we get to keep our favorite foolamancer. Turning would put him on the same side as Ace, which is a match made in heaven. Turning is also the easiest way to unite the garrison in order to fight the fire before it gets out of control.

King Slately might agree to declare war on Charlie, which Parson could use to justify turning, as he would be able to prosecute an intelligent war against his major enemy, which Stanley would never permit him to do. Trammennis might sign a non-agression pact, which would soften the blow of betraying Gobwin Knob. And if spacerock were restored as the capital, or Parson was allowed to travel to Jetstones alternate capital, Parson could invite thinkamancers in from the magic kingdom to discuss the charlie scenario. Maggie and Sizemore are still in the magic kingdom, and might be convinced to turn as well, joining Parson and Jetstone; Stanley the tool isn't in a position to stop them right now.

I'm not saying that Parson WILL turn, or even that he should turn... It just seems that there are an increasing number of reasons and advantages if he WERE to decide to turn.


But CAN he turn? Is he even theoretically capable?

Book 1 tells us that he has an insane loyalty spell on him from the summoning, worse then what the decryped have for Wanda. To the point where I wonder if he would be able to exist if he wasn't serving Stanley. He could be free if Stanley died, but he is just as likely to depop as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Goshen » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:33 am

name lips wrote:Before Fakely and Ace attacked the garrison, the only reason GK hadn't won the city was because Ace remained undiscovered and alive.

Now, the only units present are the ones involved in that attack. I think all the Jetstone units in the courtyard just croaked. Which means the only ones left are Fakely and his entourage in the throne room.

If Parson's little group can croak them, and it should be a fairly small-scale engagement, then they win the city and can put out the fire.


Exactly so.

But it would be much more interesting for Parson to negotiate their surrender, if that could somehow be done. Clonely would probably like to save the lives of his entourage, if he could be somehow convinced they would not be used against Jetstone, either directly or as decrypted. That would take nothing less than formal non-agression pact or full alliance, which would be kind of hard to see...

Are there any rules for forceable capture? Making Ace a prisoner will be easy once his golems are spent, because he is immobilized. For the others, is there some kind of non-lethal capture attack in the Erf rules?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby vintermann » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:01 am

I wondered if there was a TVTropes page for what I expect to happen now, and it turns out there is:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... gedFriends

There's just too much setup to ignore. Parson's been separated from Wanda (but not plausibly turnable Jack). Charlie is solely aiming to kill Parson now, but we know Charlie's allies have a tendency to not exactly follow his orders, for various understandable reasons. Parson will not necessarily turn, but he will cooperate with Jetstone in surviving here and now. The rabbits he would have to pull out of the hat otherwise (something to take out all the Jetstone troops in the garrison in time to stop the fire from escalating to inferno - he has no move, so putting it out is the only way he can survive) are just too big.

The problem is that the king knows he's doomed. Why shouldn't he just take the opportunity to go down in flames with his hated enemy? Maybe something related to Holly Shortcake.

Also, there is the question whether they can cooperate in putting out the fire without a formal alliance (requiring the tool's consent) or mass turning.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby the_tick_rules » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:50 am

Why was the king looking sad at the doll?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby joosy » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:28 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:Why was the king looking sad at the doll?

In previous updates it has been established that Slately was very fond of their previous Dollamancer, Holly. He kept the doll there behind glass to remind him of her.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby mortissimus » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Krennson wrote:As an alternate scenario, he could even found a third side as an 'open city'. Either Parson or King Slately breaks off from their original side, creating a third side with sworn neutrality towards both parties in the conflict. Everyone in the garrison is ordered by their commanders to turn to the new, third side. Parson or King Slately is the ruler, and the other is Heir. Not sure who would get the formal title of chief warlord in that scenario. The open city of spacerock agrees to provide troops and supplies to whichever faction exerts force majeure over the city, and spends its time exporting mercenary military advisors trained at Parson's version of Officer Candidate School, and planning for an inevitable alliance to defeat charlie.


And the next turn the copy of King Slately disappears leaving Parson in control. So not that likely. Fun theory though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Squall83 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:36 pm

I like how the dead doll has X-eyes because her eyes are buttons with x-strings. If you look at page 92, second last panel, you can't see the button strings. Is it the same for the Tools who get the highres comics? That's really creative.

And Balder has to be even more creative to get Parson out of this alive, because that huge friendly Pyre really looked like it's Inferno-time and everyone but the reds will be eaten by the flames... well maybe the reds can cover a few units.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby name lips » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:47 pm

I wonder if Sylvia will survive. It's pretty well established that she has some sort of Fate armor, and Jeffichew did some sort of Carnymancy to make the rules not apply to her properly (at who knows what cost... or why he would do such a thing).

Even without that, it would come down to hit points. Higher level warlords have more hit points, so she might survive when others die just because of that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Squall83 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:11 pm

name lips wrote:I wonder if Sylvia will survive. It's pretty well established that she has some sort of Fate armor, and Jeffichew did some sort of Carnymancy to make the rules not apply to her properly (at who knows what cost... or why he would do such a thing).

Even without that, it would come down to hit points. Higher level warlords have more hit points, so she might survive when others die just because of that.

Well, even this Carnymancy stuff can't save her from everything, or else she wouldn't serve GK. ;)


Also: Could anyone please explain to me why a lot of people here seem to think that the Ace/Parson pairing would be very great? I have no clue why it would be any better than any other pairing, e.g. Wanda tells Parson about her story with Haffaton and then he pairs up with Janis, because she sees him as a little flame when the whole world is a forest hex, so she wants to prevent Armageddon by giving him options to win battles in peace. He's got to like the idea of preventing attacks in a hex for a whole turn. Maybe it can be combined with some green dwagons casually breathing or maybe firefighting becomes impossible as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby C9H20 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:34 pm

Squall83 wrote:
name lips wrote:I wonder if Sylvia will survive. It's pretty well established that she has some sort of Fate armor, and Jeffichew did some sort of Carnymancy to make the rules not apply to her properly (at who knows what cost... or why he would do such a thing).

Even without that, it would come down to hit points. Higher level warlords have more hit points, so she might survive when others die just because of that.

Well, even this Carnymancy stuff can't save her from everything, or else she wouldn't serve GK. ;)


One could argue that the Fate-hack spell allowed her to die because it knew she would be brought back. This would be Fate's revenge on Sylvia, the closest it can get to permanently croaking her while staying within the bounds of the spell.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Krennson » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:53 pm

Squall83 wrote:
name lips wrote:I wonder if Sylvia will survive. It's pretty well established that she has some sort of Fate armor, and Jeffichew did some sort of Carnymancy to make the rules not apply to her properly (at who knows what cost... or why he would do such a thing).

Even without that, it would come down to hit points. Higher level warlords have more hit points, so she might survive when others die just because of that.

Well, even this Carnymancy stuff can't save her from everything, or else she wouldn't serve GK. ;)


Also: Could anyone please explain to me why a lot of people here seem to think that the Ace/Parson pairing would be very great? I have no clue why it would be any better than any other pairing, e.g. Wanda tells Parson about her story with Haffaton and then he pairs up with Janis, because she sees him as a little flame when the whole world is a forest hex, so she wants to prevent Armageddon by giving him options to win battles in peace. He's got to like the idea of preventing attacks in a hex for a whole turn. Maybe it can be combined with some green dwagons casually breathing or maybe firefighting becomes impossible as well.


Ace can build grenades, jetpacks, lightsabres. Based on what we know about battlebears, Ace could probably even build tanks, artillery, and maybe even bombers. Any unit parson could dream up, any opportunity he sees for a transformative tactic on the battlefield, and ace can either build the equipment to allow existing units to adopt that capability, or he can create an entirely new unit for the purpose.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby mortissimus » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:09 pm

Squall83 wrote:Also: Could anyone please explain to me why a lot of people here seem to think that the Ace/Parson pairing would be very great? I have no clue why it would be any better than any other pairing, e.g. Wanda tells Parson about her story with Haffaton and then he pairs up with Janis, because she sees him as a little flame when the whole world is a forest hex, so she wants to prevent Armageddon by giving him options to win battles in peace. He's got to like the idea of preventing attacks in a hex for a whole turn. Maybe it can be combined with some green dwagons casually breathing or maybe firefighting becomes impossible as well.


Ace is a underused caster with a thing for sci-fi gadgets. Parson would probably like sc-fi gadgets. Oh, and a large part of the audience likes sc-fi gadgets.

It is not that it would be more effective then another combo, it is that it holds the potential for creating lots and lots of cool gadgets.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 101

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:28 pm

Wow got to hand it to Ace he's really putting up a fight!

the_tick_rules wrote:Why was the king looking sad at the doll?


The doll was the last/one off the last creations of Holly, a caster which Slately was in love with, if Erfworld had the concept of marriage she would have probably been queen of Jetstone*, and who died fighting in one of his wars, the closest RL world equivalent for Slately's situation would be to return home and to discover thieves have broken in and vandalised your late wife's belongings in search of cash.

name lips wrote:I wonder if Sylvia will survive. It's pretty well established that she has some sort of Fate armor, and Jeffichew did some sort of Carnymancy to make the rules not apply to her properly (at who knows what cost... or why he would do such a thing).

Even without that, it would come down to hit points. Higher level warlords have more hit points, so she might survive when others die just because of that.


How he did it we don't know till now, but why he did it was quite clear Sylvia said so as she told us the story, Jeffichew loved her, she was probably lucky he was a Carnymancer, for Erfowlrd being a world rigged for war people still do a lot of incredible things for love.

Squall83 wrote:Also: Could anyone please explain to me why a lot of people here seem to think that the Ace/Parson pairing would be very great? I have no clue why it would be any better than any other pairing, e.g. Wanda tells Parson about her story with Haffaton and then he pairs up with Janis, because she sees him as a little flame when the whole world is a forest hex, so she wants to prevent Armageddon by giving him options to win battles in peace. He's got to like the idea of preventing attacks in a hex for a whole turn. Maybe it can be combined with some green dwagons casually breathing or maybe firefighting becomes impossible as well.


It's just how the forum works, every time a cool new toy/mechanic is revealed cue 3 pages pages of post about how Parson will use this ability to conquer Erfworld.

* I'm thinking if the world went from no cemeteries to full on gothic angel statue ones when Wanda linked with a Dirtamancer, inventing marriage might be only a Datemancer-Turnamancer link away.
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