Book 2 – Page 102

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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Eva » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:03 am

Hey, I just realized -- Ace is being cradled on the wall.

Does that mean he counts as outside the battlefield and Sylvia might have been under the illusion that she "won" because of that?

Is that one of the technical details of architecture that had to be redrawn?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Morni » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:18 am

Eva wrote:Hey, I just realized -- Ace is being cradled on the wall.

Does that mean he counts as outside the battlefield and Sylvia might have been under the illusion that she "won" because of that?

Is that one of the technical details of architecture that had to be redrawn?


If Ace is being cradled on the wall outside the garison.

Then if/when Parson cleans up the throne room. The bear and Ace should become auto captured. I don't recall where it's been describe. But theirs 3 zone to the garison, you need to control all 3 to take over the city. the units in the other 3 zone becomes captured.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby bladestorm » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:47 am

Eva wrote:Hey, I just realized -- Ace is being cradled on the wall.

Does that mean he counts as outside the battlefield and Sylvia might have been under the illusion that she "won" because of that?

Is that one of the technical details of architecture that had to be redrawn?

Sylvia 'winning' is her being able to die. She's been in a long, drawn-out conflict with Fate. Every time she does something extremely risky and daring that should land her in the City of Heroes, Fate kicks her back out on the battlefield. It's got nothing to do with this particular conflict, claiming the garrison, or Jetstone. Fate's little darling has made her final dare.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby CelebrenIthil » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Eva wrote:Hey, I just realized -- Ace is being cradled on the wall.

Does that mean he counts as outside the battlefield and Sylvia might have been under the illusion that she "won" because of that?

Is that one of the technical details of architecture that had to be redrawn?


Redrawn panels were panel 3 and 11.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby davesnothere » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 pm

Denar wrote:My Prediction; Parson and group will find the King, they'll have a brief fight, and they'll manage to subdue him. Parson'll attempt to reason with the King in order to fight/escape the fire, but Slately'll be all "gah I hate you! I end my turn." Then he'll vanish.
At this point it'll be Charlie's turn, and the reserves he has in the airspace will come into play.
Jack's gonna die, either in the engagement with the King or with Charlie. He'll represent the death caused by foolishness (not at all like Bogroll, who was because of ruthlessness - whose death had at least a purpose), and it'll echo with pretty much all the major characters.
Parson will be captured by Charlie, and the comic will progress with Parson in Charlie's capital learning more about the history of Erf, Charlie's perspective on the thinkamancy conspiracy, seeing Charlie's experiments on the captured Decrypted Archon, and the efforts of Gobwin Knob/Stanley/Wanda/Maggie/Sizemore having to take Parson's lessons on strategy to heart and attempting to rescue him all awhile dealing with the controversy brought by FAQ and Transylvito... deep breath.

... Ok I let my imagination run a little bit.


I don't think that Jack's going to die, right now. See no reason for that.

This exploit of Parson's was all about what can you do when it's not your turn.
Charlie's turn will likely be the first of the next day, but there is a whole night before then. Parson can roam the city take inventory of what's left and make a plan for the morning.

What happens tomorrow morning will be interesting. Will Charlie attack? Your idea of him being taken prisoner would be an interesting storyline.
GK might get the chance to leave before Trem might come back, but does Parson want to hold the fort, or raze the city and head for friendly ground with his remaining units.
He is in a logistical bind. Any reinforcements from GK have a long haul to get to Spacerock.

Another possible gamit is to reverse what Slately just did. Can Stanley make Spacerock GK's new capital, let Parson into MK, and then change it back?
That might require someone, with ruler power, to stay behind in the throne room. Nahhh don't think it's going to work.
Unless they do that, and then fire destroys the city and it reverts.
The outcome will depend on what survives. Wanda being in the MK makes decryption unavailible, unless she dragon relays back out.

just thinking aloud.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby bladestorm » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:33 pm

CelebrenIthil wrote:
Eva wrote:Hey, I just realized -- Ace is being cradled on the wall.

Does that mean he counts as outside the battlefield and Sylvia might have been under the illusion that she "won" because of that?

Is that one of the technical details of architecture that had to be redrawn?


Redrawn panels were panel 3 and 11.

Apparently I am still a Tool, but my e-mail address was set to something that no longer exists. Looking over the redrawn panels, it is going to be a long few weeks to see how those minor changes are going to be so important.

A long shot on the changing portal situation would be to get Wanda back to GK, Stanley changes the capitol to Spacerock and renames it, then hands the city of GK over to Wanda to splinter off a new side. Stanley gets a much nicer place and can easily park a few flights of dwagons right outside of GK to retake it next turn, before Wanda has a chance to add more decrypted. For a full turn, Parson has a portal back into MK, and then back into Wanda's GK. Once Stanley retakes the city, things can go right back to normal. Wanda can even man GK with a lot of basic uncroaked with a few decrypted in there to serve as commanders -- not a real threat to Stanley with his hammer and dwagons, but enough to give him a bit of exercise and make him feel like the MAN again.

Isolated, the plan would work. Another standoff in the MK, Charlie ges involved, retaliation from JS, marbit attack, Faq attack, etc... that would muddy up the plan really quickly.


Hmm.... maybe Saline's death was a similar ego-buff for Stanley. Saline sends Stanley and the casters out on a bogus mission to get them out of the city, then orders the hobgobs and gobs to break alliance. Short battle ensues, Saline effectively abdicates the throne via assisted suicide, and Stanley strides back in to save the day. Wouldn't be the first time a Ruler has taken their own life, but in this case the Side remains.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby auraseer » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:42 pm

I don't understand why there's so much argument about consistency (or lack thereof) in the gas-explosion mechanic. We have no idea what the mechanic is. We've seen similar situations before, but on Erf that doesn't necessarily imply that the rule will be similar.

I could come up with a dozen possible rules mechanics that would explain this situation. Maybe this kind of gas venting can only be triggered intentionally, and is rare because it's dangerous to the attacker. Maybe it's based on a die roll, and Ace was going for a long shot that paid off. Maybe just being in a burning hex is enough to ignite the gas, because Rules, even though there's no physical source of ignition close by. Maybe it's a corner-case interaction of a few other weird rules, and Ace cleverly exploited a loophole. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

We don't have access to the Erf rulebook. We only have glimpses. Until or unless we get more detail on this specific rule, we just don't know enough to argue about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby drachefly » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:58 pm

bladestorm wrote:Wanda can even man GK with a lot of basic uncroaked with a few decrypted in there to serve as commanders -- not a real threat to Stanley with his hammer and dwagons, but enough to give him a bit of exercise and make him feel like the MAN again.


Why would she uncroak anything basically ever again?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby bladestorm » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:04 pm

auraseer wrote:I don't understand why there's so much argument about consistency (or lack thereof) in the gas-explosion mechanic. We have no idea what the mechanic is. We've seen similar situations before, but on Erf that doesn't necessarily imply that the rule will be similar.

I could come up with a dozen possible rules mechanics that would explain this situation. Maybe this kind of gas venting can only be triggered intentionally, and is rare because it's dangerous to the attacker. Maybe it's based on a die roll, and Ace was going for a long shot that paid off. Maybe just being in a burning hex is enough to ignite the gas, because Rules, even though there's no physical source of ignition close by. Maybe it's a corner-case interaction of a few other weird rules, and Ace cleverly exploited a loophole. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

We don't have access to the Erf rulebook. We only have glimpses. Until or unless we get more detail on this specific rule, we just don't know enough to argue about it.

Sure we can. We can argue over logic contained within the arguments, whose logic is more logical, which rules of logic we want to follow, or at the very least, we can berate each other or get all emo over our own inabilities. We can even argue that the specific hue of green used on the burnt dragon parts is different from the green used in previous pages, so therefor and thusly must be significant. One of us can go on a long tirade over something completely unrelated, while refusing to use paragraph breaks, resulting in a teal deer leaving mysterious footprints all over the posts. We can make speculations and epileptic twees, and argue over whose is better. Then we have our own slashfic to add fuel/poison gas to the argument fire.

Speaking of slashfic, if Sylvia really is dust, I am gonna have to redo entire chapters. Whether it was her and Parson, her and Ace, an Ace/Sylvia/Cubbins threeway (involving Sylvia strapping on one of Ace's new 'toys' and spitroasting Cubbins wth it), a Wanda/Maggie/Sylvia trilink... so many stories destroyed by one fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby bladestorm » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:11 pm

drachefly wrote:
bladestorm wrote:Wanda can even man GK with a lot of basic uncroaked with a few decrypted in there to serve as commanders -- not a real threat to Stanley with his hammer and dwagons, but enough to give him a bit of exercise and make him feel like the MAN again.


Why would she uncroak anything basically ever again?

Fully staffed with Decrypted might actually harm Stanley. Buffer them with basic uncroaked, and he gets the feel of smashing stuff to dust without really being in danger. Plus, you can leave the majority of your actual decrypted in the field, where they are of actual use. Uncroak some Marbits that Sizemore routed from the tunnels, let Stanley unleash some frustration on them, and you are at no real loss. The idea is to give him a challenge and let him win, not to actually defend against him effectively. This story is full of examples of really good plans shattered by someone else trying to do the thinking.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby jkosta » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:19 pm

bladestorm wrote:Speaking of slashfic, if Sylvia really is dust, I am gonna have to redo entire chapters. Whether it was her and Parson, her and Ace, an Ace/Sylvia/Cubbins threeway (involving Sylvia strapping on one of Ace's new 'toys' and spitroasting Cubbins wth it), a Wanda/Maggie/Sylvia trilink... so many stories destroyed by one fire.


Since my sanity is being violated anyways, I have to ask: what mancy do you ascribe to Sylvia? Toastymancy?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby tgriff02 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:16 pm

effataigus wrote:To both take liberty and paraphrase:
Olescamo2: "Rob is criminally inconsistent and unrealistic!"
Chit Rule: "Rob is amazingly consistent and realistic!"

Fate has been pretty heavy-handed recently, but Rob also seems to want to make Fate into a kind of character in Erfworld, and to do so he needs Fate to throw its weight around pretty aggressively. If he doesn't then there will always be convoluted statistical arguments making the claim that there is no fate... just numbers sticking together in the reality batter.

I just hope this ends more entertainingly than the last story I read where the author made his own pen into a character.
My2Cents wrote:So, Sylvia's fate armour wears off when there's no friendlies left to die for her?
Tis my best guess as well, though it could also just be that Jeffti's spell inserted her into one of those "fated" moments that had to happen. Having just happened, Fate is off the hook on keeping her alive. Or, you know, maybe it's all just numbers sticking together in thereality batter.


That's what I'm thinking Effa, she HAD Fate Armor, but the thing about Fate Armor is that it means you are Fated to accomplish something or fullfill some some quota. Sylvia just arrived at her destination, as such she is not longer necisary to Fate's plan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby tgriff02 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:53 pm

And, now that you bring it up... If Jojo used some kind of ubber Carnymancy/Weirdomancy to put her into a Fated role in Erf to save her, that would make a lot of sense out of how her Fate Armor works. So, if Jojo gave her a Fate, not sure how; but, if that's the case, then she most certainly was guarunteed to survive/come back, at least until she fullfilled her role. So, we could propose the theory that Fate was altering Luck to shift her debt to other units. IF that is true, then based on the rules of Luckamancy as we know then, her bad roles were being shifted to other units on her Side, because 0 must always be paid. This speculation would support the idea that Sylvia was a karma F.U. for any Side that she was a part of, preserving herself, at the cost of her allies. I think this theory makes more sense than the idea that Jojo just rigged the game.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Ruaein » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:00 pm

Hello, Longtime reader/lurker (since page 13 of book 1). Just had to post my own conspiracy theory on this one.


Spoiler: show
That's not Jack. The character isn't speaking with the same embellished wit that Jack normally displays. Also, there's been no cutaway to the magic kingdom, and Maggie is out of juice, as well as Jack's mysterious appearance. My bet is that the character currently pretending to be Jack is an agent of Charlie's, possibly Jeff but more likely a foolamancer of some sort, and that's Charlie's ace in the hole. This will probably be revealed when the final garrison zone falls and there's a conflict of who actually makes the capture.


Also, glad Sylvia is dead, never liked her. And it seems what the author is working to establish is that Fate is a powerful force in this world, but possibly not an omnipotent one was some Erfworlders are want to believe.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby tgriff02 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:08 pm

I wonder just HOW "cloudy" Marie would have found Sylvia's Fate if they had met right after Sylvia popped. :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby effataigus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:51 pm

Ruaein wrote:Hello, Longtime reader/lurker (since page 13 of book 1). Just had to post my own conspiracy theory on this one.


Spoiler: show
That's not Jack. The character isn't speaking with the same embellished wit that Jack normally displays. Also, there's been no cutaway to the magic kingdom, and Maggie is out of juice, as well as Jack's mysterious appearance. My bet is that the character currently pretending to be Jack is an agent of Charlie's, possibly Jeff but more likely a foolamancer of some sort, and that's Charlie's ace in the hole. This will probably be revealed when the final garrison zone falls and there's a conflict of who actually makes the capture.


Also, glad Sylvia is dead, never liked her. And it seems what the author is working to establish is that Fate is a powerful force in this world, but possibly not an omnipotent one was some Erfworlders are want to believe.
Hi Ruaein... welcome.

You're not alone in that belief on these forums, though it's not one I share. The first thing out of Jack's, if that is his real name, mouth after coming out of the portal was about missing his and Parson's wargames. I can see how an imposter might know about Jack having been on Jillian's side for awhile, but I'm guessing a doppleganger would need either mind-reading or some next-level foolamancy to know about the time Jack and Parson spent together.

We do know that foolamancers can see what people see in order to help infer what their target would expect to see... maybe that extends to knowing what the person would expect to hear in response to a question? Otherwise, I'm not seeing it, but it's a fun idea.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby mortissimus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:20 am

tgriff02 wrote:And, now that you bring it up... If Jojo used some kind of ubber Carnymancy/Weirdomancy to put her into a Fated role in Erf to save her, that would make a lot of sense out of how her Fate Armor works. So, if Jojo gave her a Fate, not sure how; but, if that's the case, then she most certainly was guarunteed to survive/come back, at least until she fullfilled her role. So, we could propose the theory that Fate was altering Luck to shift her debt to other units. IF that is true, then based on the rules of Luckamancy as we know then, her bad roles were being shifted to other units on her Side, because 0 must always be paid. This speculation would support the idea that Sylvia was a karma F.U. for any Side that she was a part of, preserving herself, at the cost of her allies. I think this theory makes more sense than the idea that Jojo just rigged the game.


I like this theory. Perhaps he stole the fate of someone else who was fated to do whatever Sylvia became fated to do.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby teratorn » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:39 am

Ruaein wrote:Hello, Longtime reader/lurker (since page 13 of book 1). Just had to post my own conspiracy theory on this one.


Jack just made a reference to Jillian. Why would a «fake» Jack even talk about it?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby peteratjet » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:04 am

If we're exposing our conspiracy theories, here's mine.

Spoiler: show
Charlie doesn't exist.

After all, nobody but his private guard of Archons have ever seen him. So they say. What if the voice of "Charlescom" is actually a mind-linked group of high-level Archons atuned to the Arkendish .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 102

Postby Ruaein » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:15 am

Charlie knows all about Jillian. I actually find the war games reference to be more of a strike against my theory. Not a fatal one at this point, though. Also, while on Charlie theories:

Spoiler: show
He's a tuna in a giant fish tank. Sorry Charlie
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