Book 2 – Text Updates 059

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby (name here) » Sat May 18, 2013 1:24 pm

Huh, so someone is capable of actively tampering with the bracer. It's probably not Charlie, because he put a lot of effort into trying to get Parson to cast the scroll and I see no reason why he would do all that and then try to convince him not to try. But I doubt it's Fate that's changing the numbers, because the bracer should either show the unaltered probability or the one altered by Fate, not switch from one to the other.

Probably someone in the grand conspiracy that summoned him in the first place, or maybe the spell itself, is trying to keep him in Erfworld. The spell did provide the bracer in the first place.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby ManaCaster » Sat May 18, 2013 1:32 pm

(name here) wrote:Huh, so someone is capable of actively tampering with the bracer. It's probably not Charlie, because he put a lot of effort into trying to get Parson to cast the scroll and I see no reason why he would do all that and then try to convince him not to try. But I doubt it's Fate that's changing the numbers, because the bracer should either show the unaltered probability or the one altered by Fate, not switch from one to the other.

Probably someone in the grand conspiracy that summoned him in the first place, or maybe the spell itself, is trying to keep him in Erfworld. The spell did provide the bracer in the first place.

Actually, it's basically the Titans versus Charlie. Both of them are using Carnymancy to railroad Erfworld, but in different directions. The glitched answers are the results of that struggle. Fate ultimately wins, but Charlie's power is enough to make the true answer flash for an instant.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby mortissimus » Sat May 18, 2013 1:45 pm

The way I read this is that Parson has an extremely small chance of making up a correct Dirtomancy spell on the spot, 98% chance of casting from a scroll (the purpose of a scroll is after all to let a caster cast something they normally can't), but 0% chance of casting this scroll here.

Because Fate, whatever it is.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby ManaCaster » Sat May 18, 2013 2:00 pm

mortissimus wrote:The way I read this is that Parson has an extremely small chance of making up a correct Dirtomancy spell on the spot, 98% chance of casting from a scroll (the purpose of a scroll is after all to let a caster cast something they normally can't), but 0% chance of casting this scroll here.

Because Fate, whatever it is.

If that were all there is to it, the bracer wouldn't flash different results to the same question. It would just show a non-zero chance to cast the scroll under certain circumstances, but a 0% chance here and now. The changing answer is the result of two railroading GMs fighting against one another like Parson said.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Lor » Sat May 18, 2013 2:10 pm

Roses are red,
Like the hat for a gnome
Click my heels thrice
"There's no place like home"

Spoiler: show
Yeah, I still prefer the "I'm a player!" one.
Sir Cedric: Delayed? How so?
Wamba: Well, when I heard Normans were approaching I ran to lock up my wife. But, she'd also heard they were approaching, and locked me up instead.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Zeku » Sat May 18, 2013 2:36 pm

The most promising thing about this update, is that we might get more bracer information.

We had a lot of discussions about it being the most powerful artifact in all of existence.

Perhaps some indications of it's limits, or it's true nature.

I'm pretty sure it was originally just a little throwaway plot detail, something that let Parson perform some battle calculations.

But for better or for worse, it's become an interesting addition to the story, and too 'big' to ignore from a narrative perspective. I refuse to believe that a summoning spell, no matter how complex, would arbitrarily create a mathamancy artifact simply because the summoned warlord doesn't have an inate Erfsense.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Aquillion » Sat May 18, 2013 2:51 pm

I doubt anyone is personally interfering with the bracer (there are too few people who would -- Charlie has no motivation, and everyone who would want to seems unlikely to be able to do so.) Plus, it's an artifact; how many people can interfere with those? It's not like the eyebooks.

I think the problem is probably that it's a mathemancy artifact, but it's ramming up against Fate. Mathemancy is like having Nate Silver on your side or something -- it tells you what's likely to happen and all that, but it doesn't actually know the future. But it's powerful enough to try and give accurate answers even with the probability of Fate taken into account, so when you ask it a question that goes directly up against Fate, it gets confused.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby (name here) » Sat May 18, 2013 3:01 pm

I'm dubious; it should either take Fate into account or leave it out. I would expect it to simply give the unaltered probabilities because it's not Predictamancy, which is the discipline that governs interacting with Fate. Even if it can take Fate into account, it should simply not display the probability until it finished calculating, not show it and then change.

An awful lot of casters are in some way involved with the competing conspiracies revolving around Parson, so it's not implausible one or more of them would interfere. The how is tricky, admittedly, but the Great Minds can assemble and safely dissolve trimancer links. Alternately, it could be Foolamancy or another method of altering the result Parson sees without actually tampering with the bracer.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby redrobot » Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm

Could it be that it is not a conspiracy, nor the intervention of fate, but just the bracer taking into account the rapidly changing circumstances affecting someone who is trying to cast a spell in the midst of a crumbling inferno? I suspect that Parson was overthinking the problem: He assumed that the bracer was saying "you cannot cast the spell here and now because of your stats" (or fate, or external interference, or similarly arcane game mechanics issues), when in fact the bracer was saying "You cannot cast that spell right here because a flaming wooden beam is going to fall in this spot five seconds from now"... If you imagine Parson pacing around (picking up the scroll, taking a step towards antium, getting out of a particularly suffocating wisp of smoke, etc) it is quite likely that he was walking in and out of spots where debris or smoke were just about to make it impossible to complete the spell without harm, hence the wildly fluctuating results.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby teratorn » Sat May 18, 2013 3:43 pm

walpurgisborn wrote:Except he also showed a non-negative chance to cast as a dirtamancer, in an attempt to put out the fire. Since the odds were so low, that implies he's probably not a dirtamancer, but definitely a caster of some sort.


So he'd only need to ask the odds for every discipline to find out what kind of caster he is.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby frei » Sat May 18, 2013 3:59 pm

So I guess parson doesn't have a clever way out of this. :((((
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Geordy » Sat May 18, 2013 3:59 pm

redrobot wrote:[...] it is quite likely that he was walking in and out of spots where debris or smoke were just about to make it impossible to complete the spell without harm, hence the wildly fluctuating results.

I doubt that the circumstanes were changing quickly enough for that when he ordered a batch of 10 successive calculations. Your theory also doesnt account for why the bracer always ends up in a stable display of 0.0 .

I think the right way to understand this thing is to ask where it came from. A few sharp members already hinted at this. If the summoning spell created the bracer then the summoning spell is being responsible for any shenanigans involving the thing. Maybe the spell in addition to bringing Parson to Erf has to also keep him in Erf.

What I find remarkable is that Parson doesnt give a damn about the units with him. If he manages to read that spell he goes *poof* leaving behind a sad Antium in a lethal inferno. Of course he has to take this way out but he could at least say goodbye to Antium and thank him for his deeds. You can actually go and ask why they are talking in this situation at all? The answer is so that Parson can deliver some punchlines. Nothing else. Compare that to Tramennis - with a bleeding heart and huge empathy - sending Ace back into his line while the king was on his way to parley with GK. These sides are definitely of different quality.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Xorbon » Sat May 18, 2013 4:48 pm

I'm making the presumption that Parson will be rescued, but I wonder if any of the other 3 will survive. I'm hoping at least Antium does.

Once he is rescued, I wonder if Parson will insta-heal at the start of the next turn like an Erfworld unit. Or will he have to heal slowly over a number of turns? I don't think we've seen Parson injured before now.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Lipkin » Sat May 18, 2013 4:49 pm

I read it as saying "You can technically cast the spell. There is no reason that you shouldn't be able to within the rules of Erf. But try, and you will fail." By all rights, Parson should be able to cast it. But Fate says otherwise. I think it's telling that the bracer, when first asked if he could cast it, wanted to know additional conditions. It's possible he could cast it at another time. It would also be possible for him to cast it on someone other than himself. But as soon as he said he wanted to cast it on himself, right now, it gave him a flat no. It wasn't calculating if it was possible, but if it would happen. It's possible, but it isn't under those conditions.

Same with the "I could create conditions here and now to allow me to cast the carnymancy."

You could, but you can't. We know from past updates that the bracer can speculate. It's doing it's best to give Parson the answer he requested within the simple parameters given. He asked for T/F, so it isn't allowed to expand on it's answers. The best it can manage is a yes, except no.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Lipkin » Sat May 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Xorbon wrote:I'm making the presumption that Parson will be rescued, but I wonder if any of the other 3 will survive. I'm hoping at least Antium does.

Once he is rescued, I wonder if Parson will insta-heal at the start of the next turn like an Erfworld unit. Or will he have to heal slowly over a number of turns? I don't think we've seen Parson injured before now.

He got a tiny cut during a summer update, and made mention that the wound was healed at start of turn, and his clothing was repaired.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat May 18, 2013 4:56 pm

Valentines day spells?
Bille from Dumbing of Age wrote:Whatever. Sarah and Raidah should just make out and get it over with. I've seen enough to know bitter rivalries like these always lead straight into bone city.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Eva » Sat May 18, 2013 4:57 pm

And “True/false: conditions exist that would give me a non-zero chance of successfully casting the Carnymancy spell” tells us that Fate plans to let him go back to earth after he has fulfilled his purpose on Erf.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Lipkin » Sat May 18, 2013 5:21 pm

Eva wrote:And “True/false: conditions exist that would give me a non-zero chance of successfully casting the Carnymancy spell” tells us that Fate plans to let him go back to earth after he has fulfilled his purpose on Erf.

Or that it is at least possible.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby :-) » Sat May 18, 2013 6:27 pm

Heres a theory: Jack ain't dead and he's tryin' to convince Parson not to cast the scroll by casting illusions on the calculator...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Tarvok » Sat May 18, 2013 6:44 pm

I'm thinking that, yes, Parson is some sort of caster, but not of any kind Erf has known for many years. Parson, I'm thinking, can cast from any discipline. The bracer is Mathamancy. The scroll is most likely Carnymancy. Stopping the inferno would be Dirtamancy, with the only problem being that, at this point, he does not know the spell. Apparently, he has some theoretical capability in any of these areas, and I see two possible reasons for this two be. The first is that he is a caster in the classical Erfworldian sense (possibly a Hippiemancer, though I'm pretty sure Janis was lying) who just happens to have cross-discipline levels of ability that rival Wanda's.

Then there's my preferred answer. So much about this world is a joke within a joke, and to get the joke you have to get the reference... all of which which are firmly rooted in what Parson referred to as Stupidworld, not Erfworld. Clearly this world was designed by someone who could make use of such referential humor. Parson is also someone who could make use of such referential humor and has a history of designing worlds and rule systems. Ergo, Parson is a <redacted>.
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