Book 2 – Page 112

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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Keldaria » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:20 am

First of all brilliant move parson, building yourself a small fortress in the magic kingdom and taking a small detachment of forces there to defend it so you stack with them and then talk with the thinkamancers on your terms without fearing getting incaped in a single hit.

Second of all, am I the only one wondering what this guy would be able to do with a carneymancer at his disposal and more importantly why all the carneymancers aren't exactly friendly with him. I mean they are a caster based upon breaking the rules, so unless their ego is getting the best of them because he's breaking rules better than they normally could then I would have expected them to be more enticed by his playstyle than any of the caster groups on the whole. So at some point I hope parson is able to capture or turn a carneymancer to his cause because having someone on his side able to "Rig the rules" would only add to parsons ability to dominate.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:35 am

Hmm, I hadn't really thought of the fact that the volcano didn't seem to mess with the body count so much, but the inferno did. Perhaps it is a case of erfworld physics acting up? Fire burns up bodies, making them unusable for decrypting, but a volcanic explosion is... well, a volcanic explosion, not a fire. And even lava is lava, and not a fire, and so doesn't have the same chance of destroying a body.

Another mitigating factor is that alot of the bodies were likely used up in the fight... as in it died fighting for jetstone, then was decrypted, then dusted. Or decrypted then died in the fire. So yeah, maybe 300 bodies isn't so unreasonable, as that's likely all that were still alive when the fire started (or dead and not yet decrypted).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby CNagy » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:19 am

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Hmm, I hadn't really thought of the fact that the volcano didn't seem to mess with the body count so much, but the inferno did. Perhaps it is a case of erfworld physics acting up? Fire burns up bodies, making them unusable for decrypting, but a volcanic explosion is... well, a volcanic explosion, not a fire. And even lava is lava, and not a fire, and so doesn't have the same chance of destroying a body.

Another mitigating factor is that alot of the bodies were likely used up in the fight... as in it died fighting for jetstone, then was decrypted, then dusted. Or decrypted then died in the fire. So yeah, maybe 300 bodies isn't so unreasonable, as that's likely all that were still alive when the fire started (or dead and not yet decrypted).


It could be that a big difference between the volcano and the inferno is down to the nature of traps. My memory is a little fuzzy, but the volcano trick was referred to as a Dirtamancy trap. If it essentially attacked everyone and blew up everything and then was over, it would leave a lot of corpses. Charred corpses, but corpses none the less. An inferno, on the other hand, might damage a unit until it croaks, but that is not the end of the inferno. The fire then damages the corpse until it is incinerated.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby BakaGrappler » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:47 am

CNagy wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Hmm, I hadn't really thought of the fact that the volcano didn't seem to mess with the body count so much, but the inferno did. Perhaps it is a case of erfworld physics acting up? Fire burns up bodies, making them unusable for decrypting, but a volcanic explosion is... well, a volcanic explosion, not a fire. And even lava is lava, and not a fire, and so doesn't have the same chance of destroying a body.

Another mitigating factor is that alot of the bodies were likely used up in the fight... as in it died fighting for jetstone, then was decrypted, then dusted. Or decrypted then died in the fire. So yeah, maybe 300 bodies isn't so unreasonable, as that's likely all that were still alive when the fire started (or dead and not yet decrypted).


It could be that a big difference between the volcano and the inferno is down to the nature of traps. My memory is a little fuzzy, but the volcano trick was referred to as a Dirtamancy trap. If it essentially attacked everyone and blew up everything and then was over, it would leave a lot of corpses. Charred corpses, but corpses none the less. An inferno, on the other hand, might damage a unit until it croaks, but that is not the end of the inferno. The fire then damages the corpse until it is incinerated.


OR so much of the Jetstone army and the GK armies were Decrypted BEFORE the Inferno, and the bulk of the GK forces were Dusted on death. And the bulk of the remaining corpses are the ones from the falling of the tower and Count Downer's assault for the throne. It's not like the entire Jetstone army went into the fray after the Decrypting began. The King wouldn't let them, being the complete idiot he was.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Whispri » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:56 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:Is anyone else surprised there are only 300 or so decryptable bodies? I had the feeling many hundreds if not thousands of hobgoblins and Jetstone troops died. And if Wanda could still decrypt troops after being burned by a volcano, why not after an inferno?

Not really, it's low end, but it's within the range I expected. After all, there are only four sources of fresh corpses, Artemis's charge (little more than a dozen bodies), the tower's fall (could have been hundreds, could have been dozens, could have been none if the living recovered their dead and wounded as they fled the garrison), the air battle (maybe a dozen, maybe more, maybe less if the bodies all landed outside the garrison) and the final assault on the garrison (which may have involved hundreds of Jetstone soldiers... but actually, I didn't count many more than a hundred in the stacks we saw assembling for battle).

And some of those bodies would have been caught in the explosion and blown to pieces.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Werebiscuit » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:33 am

Keldaria wrote:First of all brilliant move parson, building yourself a small fortress in the magic kingdom and taking a small detachment of forces there to defend it so you stack with them and then talk with the thinkamancers on your terms without fearing getting incaped in a single hit.



Erm... he hasn't taken a small detachment through, he decrypted a small detachment in the new capital and has taken the rest ( almost 240) of the bodies through.

The "fortress" in the magic kingdom has no doors as drawn, and its signamancy is that of a Pyramid, which as someone else pointed out is used for STORING the dead. So more likely a storeroom than a fortress.
Note that it means that Parson has decided to cut ties with the MK as there will be no route to the MK (Or Vice Versa - and this is important) For those saying that the tunnel will remain open. Why not just build a door ? ( A. Because it compromises the defense of the structure) so if there is to be no door why leave a tunnel ?

Note also that the other GK portal will have gone ( a side can't have two portals each at a capital, since it can't have two capitals), so unless it is a staging post to a capital switchback, possible if Spacerock is levelled but we're only speculating on that mechanism, then it can only be to hold a reserve of bodies.

Now the bodies could serve as a threat to the MK and the various factions thereof but only if they know they're there...and so far only Issac and therefore the thinkamancers know that.

All the above point to a dupe using the bodies as a reserve force undetectable by anyone bar the thinkamancers...AND THEY'RE UNLIKELY TO TELL CHARLIE.

Why decrypt a token force in Spacerock consisting of 36 troops including "a few knights and a warlord or two" ?

See where I'm heading with this yet ?


Let's wait and see if parson contacts Charlie.... :twisted:
Last edited by Werebiscuit on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Whispri » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 am

Werebiscuit wrote:See where I'm heading with this yet ?

Not really, no.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Werebiscuit » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:47 am

Whispri wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:See where I'm heading with this yet ?

Not really, no.

Ok you'll just have to wait , then ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby dear poetry » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:59 am

Parson is 'stacking them like cord wood.' I don't know what his plan is, but I bet it includes fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Mikalyaran » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:05 am

You know...if he does decrypt the bodies once they are brought through a quick sortie to obtain Jeftichew (similiar to when they nabbed Ossamer but with different tactics, would likely yield some amazing intelligence on Charlie. Mostly I think this amount to a show of strength and securing GK portal. I like the idea that the pyramid could expand into a defensive structure. Maybe a tunnel to Charlie's portal for book 3 :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Ansan Gotti » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:31 am

CNagy wrote:It could be that a big difference between the volcano and the inferno is down to the nature of traps. My memory is a little fuzzy, but the volcano trick was referred to as a Dirtamancy trap. If it essentially attacked everyone and blew up everything and then was over, it would leave a lot of corpses. Charred corpses, but corpses none the less. An inferno, on the other hand, might damage a unit until it croaks, but that is not the end of the inferno. The fire then damages the corpse until it is incinerated.


Inferno is also a trap per the following:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -01-11.jpg

"Units without Fire Resistance special have to evade trap at penalty to flee area, or otherwise croak."

Whispri, I understand your impression, I guess mine just differs... definitely looked as though there were many hundreds of archers, knights, etc., ESPECIALLY after Tramennis returned the column. Even if most of them left afterwards, my own impression was that more had died. Not sure if there's any textual confirmation (haven't had time to search it, unlike the inferno trap thing which just came to me quickly), so like I said, it's just an impression right now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:44 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:
CNagy wrote:It could be that a big difference between the volcano and the inferno is down to the nature of traps. My memory is a little fuzzy, but the volcano trick was referred to as a Dirtamancy trap. If it essentially attacked everyone and blew up everything and then was over, it would leave a lot of corpses. Charred corpses, but corpses none the less. An inferno, on the other hand, might damage a unit until it croaks, but that is not the end of the inferno. The fire then damages the corpse until it is incinerated.


Inferno is also a trap per the following:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -01-11.jpg

"Units without Fire Resistance special have to evade trap at penalty to flee area, or otherwise croak."

Whispri, I understand your impression, I guess mine just differs... definitely looked as though there were many hundreds of archers, knights, etc., ESPECIALLY after Tramennis returned the column. Even if most of them left afterwards, my own impression was that more had died. Not sure if there's any textual confirmation (haven't had time to search it, unlike the inferno trap thing which just came to me quickly), so like I said, it's just an impression right now.

Like I said, most of them likely died and were decrypted during the fighting already. GK was winning the fight so you have to figure over half were decrypted already before the inferno.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby fehler » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:47 am

I would really love to see the invasion of Jetstone City, or Faq, from the basement. With their rulers in the field, their cities should go neutral, and treasury get claimed. And those sites (and Haggar) should only have token defense right now, ripe for a decrypting, Warlord/4-caster strike force to pick and polish.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby dirocyn » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:02 am

If I'm counting right (and I could not be) the casters in Portal Park right now include:
The Predictamancers (7) + Deanna and Janice
The Great Minds (7)
The Carnies (4)
There were comic book characters (Dick Tracy, Broom Hilda, etc.)--7 of those, who left and were not involved in the fistfight with the Carnies. Those guys can't be more than a few steps away, and seemed to be spoiling for a firefight.
Plus maybe 4 or 5 more casters of varying disciplines, who at this point are basically onlookers. By my rough count, 30 casters, who are in no sense united.

Parson's going to have 240 or so units, including infantry and knights, and there is no reason he couldn't put together 30 stacks. Casters can lead troops (w/o a leadership bonus, but at least they don't just auto-attack) and I reckon 9 of those stacks could have a leader--though Sizemore really should be left out of any fighting in the MK. All these stacks would have bonuses from Parson and Wanda. And they're up against casters--who have lots of ways to disable a single unit, but who also tend to be squishy & won't have leadership bonuses. And who are outnumbered 8 to 1.

In my estimation, Parson will have a force that could absolutely demolish all of the casters in Portal Park.
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If Janice & Sizemore don't stop them, that is.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby LordAcme » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:11 am

arbo wrote:Someone inevitably will bring it up, so why not now... brace yourselves...

Parson's gonna start his side at the MK!!

*runs for cover*


Not technically impossible, actually. The MK is a barbarian haven, not actually a side in itself. So if it's possible for Parson to start and sustain a barbarian side, the MK would support it.

Not that I'm advocating that Parson can even start a side. I'm a proponent of the premise that the summoning spell will not let that happen, at least not without Stanley's explicit consent.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Mikalyaran » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:17 pm

LordAcme wrote:
arbo wrote:Someone inevitably will bring it up, so why not now... brace yourselves...

Parson's gonna start his side at the MK!!

*runs for cover*


Not technically impossible, actually. The MK is a barbarian haven, not actually a side in itself. So if it's possible for Parson to start and sustain a barbarian side, the MK would support it.

Not that I'm advocating that Parson can even start a side. I'm a proponent of the premise that the summoning spell will not let that happen, at least not without Stanley's explicit consent.


The Magic Kingdom doesn't have any city sites so he can't technically have his side their. He could possibly have the influence and force needed to politically control it/ threaten to conquer it. But it wouldn't be his sides an any normal sense. Boy would it be the ultimate trump though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:21 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:its signamancy is that of a Pyramid, which as someone else pointed out is used for STORING the dead.

Pyramids have fnord another signamancy meaning too.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Talisid » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Parson doesn't want to start a fight with the MK. They have too much power on their side with all those casters and the ability to pop into anybody's capital at will. For the same reason he's not willing to barge a bunch of decrypted into Carlie's portal.

Furthermore, Parson has no idea what kind of guards Charlie will have posted at his end of the portal and its very likely that even if Wanda creates a bunch of decrypted in the MK, the portals will still croak them on the way out.

Its much more likely that he's hiding a reserve force of corpses in the MK, attempting to bait Charlie into sending a pile of Arcons into Spacerock to finish the job on Parson.

1. Wanda decrypts just enough of the bodies in Spacerock to help them transport the rest of the bodies to the portal room
2. Charlie scouts Spacerock and sees minimal decrypted defending it
3. Charlie sends Arcons to Spacerock to take the capital, ending Gobwin Knob's side, turning Stanly into a Barbarian and possibly capturing/Killing Parson in the process.
4. Once Charlie commits his troops to the fight, Sizemore pushes all the bodies stored in the MK back into the Spacrock portal room
5. Suddenly Charlie's forces are horribly out numbered and Parson bags a fresh batch of decrypted Arcons, giving Charlie's wallet a bloody nose in the process.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby ElKingo » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:03 pm

Hi folks, long time lurker first time poster.

Just trying to think what I would do in this situation. I think an all out war with the MK is a bad idea, although having dominion over it would be undoubtedly useful.

If Sizemore's tunnel is still open I think I'd get the casters and the deadz into the MK. Raze spacerock and get out of dodge bringing as many troops to decrypt in GK as I could.

As for what our resident genius would do. Harder to say. I don't think he'll raze Spacerock due to the decryption of Warlords and Knights no point decrypting them so they can burn after the body round up.

This leaves MK shenanigans, A MK garrison to protect the Portal seems like a good idea. Or a task force to go after the Carnymancers, which would rustle jimmies all over the place. A bodyguard for future portal jaunts perhaps?

I'd say the reasons for the box are to store the bodies in so they don't disappear and to prevent the Carnies from reporting their presence to Charlie. As for which side of the portal a potential decryption would go? Makes sense to me that it would be the MK unless Parson plans to use himself as bait to draw out an attack from Charlie.

Doesn't really help Charlie to do that though. Charlie knows that Parson can slip into the MK as an escape route, he'd have nothing to gain in terms of his Parson slaying desires.

At least there'll be cake.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:49 pm

I think the problem with razing Spacerock is that if they did that, the order of events would likely be:
1) GK looses it's capital.
2) GK side is defeated because it has lost its capital.
3) All GK cities go Barbarian
4) Stanley is still alive, so he and anyone stacked with him go barbarian and are cool. Everyone else outside a city (except casters) croaks.
5) Stanley is in GK, stacked with every unit in the city, thus claims the city as his own.
6) Stanley is ruler of the new GK side, but it consists of only GK itself surrounded by a large number of barbarian cities, which could have been left with minimal defenses by moving units out of the cities (costing a chunk of schmuckers in garrison promotions), or with their defenses intact based on desires (If living units, they can be killed easily by a new strike force and decrypted, if decrypted, maybe make them move out so they are destroyed, or maybe something special would happen based on their link to the arkentool.)
7) GK is in a very precarious position for a few turns as it has to reconquer all its cities.

Of course, steps 2/3 might not actually come before the check that Stanley is alive and in a city, and thus it might indeed revert back to GK as the capital with no real consequences. Seems like a bit of a cheat, but that's what Parson is all about here really.

Overall, it seems like a chancy plan, and not exactly the sort of master stroke Parson has become known for.

The 'bait Charlie' thing has problems as well. Charlie knows Parson can skip out to the MK to prevent his capture/croaking, so he isn't really bait. Charlie might be willing to do a fight to try and end GK's side, but that would really just result in the above plan being initiated, minus the chance to move forces out of cities, meaning Charlie won't be able to snipe them easily. All in all, not much for Charlie to gain, and alot for him to lose. He may not know what Parson is doing, but he'll no doubt learn about the pyramid in 5 seconds or so, and know that Parson is up to something, and he isn't likely to underestimate Parson like that.

A defensive bunker in MK seems reasonable, but with the phrase "stack them like cordwood" , it doesn't sound like he is planning on decrypting them immediately. Seems more likely to be storage, which could still serve as a deterrent of sorts, a bargaining chip. "Look, I could decrypt a few hundred troops in MK, but I'm not going to, cause I'm not trying to piss everyone off, I'm just trying to show I mean business and can't just be pushed around."

Using it as a base for capital strikes sounds kinda promising, but that's really only going to work... like once. After that everyone will be sure to post serious defenses at their portals. Still, it could be used to take out Jetstone and/or FAQ, which would be very helpful, but it would come at a huge cost in regards to MK sentiment. Granted, he is fairly well set up to deal with poor MK sentiment, but having a hundred casters pissed off at you is a bad move, so the gain has to be massive.

So, all in all, defensive bunker seems most likely, but it still lacks that Parson flair. Hopefully we'll see soon.
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