Book 2 – Page 112

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:54 pm

My money is on Parson striking a finishing blow at Jetstones' new capital with an army of decrypted transported via the portal as corpses via a carried item hack...
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
User avatar
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby gazes_also » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:07 pm

There seems to be a big general assumption that Parson must always win. I think Parson will suffer a major defeat before this is done.

He has crossed the threshold into the adventure; he has recently had revealed to him that he has a higher purpose than he imagines but he has rejected the idea. He must now suffer a reverse, pay a price and be motivated to follow the higher purpose. He then undertakes the journey of trials to be prepared and equipped to face his antagonist.

Basically Parson has no motivation to go after Charlie; he's a pain in the butt to Parson trying to his job as GK's CWL, but beyond that he has no reason to go up against an enemy as powerful as Charlie...yet.

Bad stuff is going to happen to Parson and those he cares about.
User avatar
gazes_also
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lilwik » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:37 pm

gazes_also wrote:There seems to be a big general assumption that Parson must always win.
Parson has already had some loses as explained in Book 0, Page 124 but his being a perfect warlord is a guarantee to us that if there is any way he can possibly sneak a victory out of a dire situation then he will find that way. If you expect Parson to suffer a bigger defeat than we've already seen, then you are on course for disappointment.

gazes_also wrote:Bad stuff is going to happen to Parson and those he cares about.
There's no doubt about that. Parson is at his best when he's solving the worst sort of bad problems.
Lilwik
 
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:39 pm

Don't forget he'd be armed with toys from Ace ;)

Of course, Jack could theoretically veil anyone just as well as himself (I think), so they could send someone with more combat ability like Parson through. We have no idea just how strong Parson is exactly, but he did beat a doll (heavy infantry?) and a ruler (Shouldn't he be as strong as a normal warlord more or less at least?), so he likely has somewhat reasonable stats. Course, if he counts as heavy, he might have some penalties to veils cast on him.

Edit: Just had a thought on the 'game' Wanda is talking about: Both of them knew that Wanda was fated to Decrypt Jack, so she was looking for every opportunity to have him croaked, and he was looking for every opportunity to... not croak. The end of the game was him finally croaking so she could decrypt him. Edit2: More specifically, the game was basically him trying to outmaneuver fate.
Taikei no Yuurei
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lipkin » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:54 am

gazes_also wrote:There seems to be a big general assumption that Parson must always win. I think Parson will suffer a major defeat before this is done.

He has crossed the threshold into the adventure; he has recently had revealed to him that he has a higher purpose than he imagines but he has rejected the idea. He must now suffer a reverse, pay a price and be motivated to follow the higher purpose. He then undertakes the journey of trials to be prepared and equipped to face his antagonist.

Basically Parson has no motivation to go after Charlie; he's a pain in the butt to Parson trying to his job as GK's CWL, but beyond that he has no reason to go up against an enemy as powerful as Charlie...yet.

Bad stuff is going to happen to Parson and those he cares about.

Charlie has gone to extreme lengths to have Parson killed. That enough is reason for Parson to take the fight to him. Ignoring him would be a mistake, and not one Parson is likely to make.
User avatar
Lipkin
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Archameades » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:25 pm

Charlie has gone to extreme lengths to have Parson killed.


He went to extreme lengths to make Parson go away, not necessaryily killed. I suspect it would have been a lot less effort to engineer a way to have Parson killed. Jillian implied that had resources nearby that could have finished the job. Not to mention hiring a couple shady casters to blast first and ask questions later, if he ever came back to the Magic kingdom, would have probably been easier (or simpler) than the scroll plan.
Archameades
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:42 pm

I think Charlie wants Parson to see him as a friend. He offered to 'capture' him to save him from GK. He offered the scroll to get home instead of trying to kill him. I think he's trying to build some Loyalty and is really trying to get him on his side. I figure the scroll won't send Parson home, but instead into the employ of Charlie.
Taikei no Yuurei
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby fehler » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:22 pm

Just a thought: There are 300 or so usable bodies in the garrison. There is an unnamed number of shackled units in Spacerock proper, mainly archers on the outer wall that haven't been brought in for a garrison rush. None of whom have the move to escape, since we learned that fugitives move on their captor's turn, and its not the captor's turn right now. I'd enjoy seeing the return of Mary Sagittari.
fehler
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby 0beron » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:27 pm

fehler wrote:Just a thought: There are 300 or so usable bodies in the garrison. There is an unnamed number of shackled units in Spacerock proper, mainly archers on the outer wall that haven't been brought in for a garrison rush.

I don't think so. It seemed like a good chunk of the infantry was committed to the Garrison surge, and the rest were evacuated via the road to Jetstone City. Tremenis flew there for safety, but they were forming a column to travel there by road too.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3180
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby dwp222 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:09 pm

An odd idea just occurred --- Ossomer was able to switch allegiance. What if it turns out that decrypted casters either:
1) can do the same thing
2) are decrypted with some allegiance (whether their original side or not) than slavish devotion to "Mistress?"

We've got two casters from two different sides -- Guess we'll find out.

Keep us guessing, Rob!
dwp222
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:07 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby gd1 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:51 pm

Is that Alyx Vance in panel 11?
gd1
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:48 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Lipkin » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:59 pm

gd1 wrote:Is that Alyx Vance in panel 11?

Yup, she's been around for a while. She's always been around the Thinkamancers, though I'm not sure how well that fits.
User avatar
Lipkin
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:05 pm

fehler wrote:Just a thought: There are 300 or so usable bodies in the garrison. There is an unnamed number of shackled units in Spacerock proper, mainly archers on the outer wall that haven't been brought in for a garrison rush. None of whom have the move to escape, since we learned that fugitives move on their captor's turn, and its not the captor's turn right now. I'd enjoy seeing the return of Mary Sagittari.

Actually, if they had move, they could move right now. Remember that Olive was captured on her turn, but everyone was still concerned about her leaving the city, so it stands to reason that she could, and they weren't just getting the ruling wrong. How does that work? She had full move. Move refreshes at the start of your turn (and possibly when promoted from garrison), and is depleted when your side ends turn or you go from one hex to another. So despite the fact that in the future she would refresh her move at the start of FAQs turn and not her original side's, in the mean time she still has her move, and as long as you have move, you can use it, even if it maybe isn't 'your turn' per say. This is likely one of the very few examples of when someone can move outside of when they would generally have move. There might actually be some interesting rules exploits that Parson could take advantage of there. For example, if he were to split off to another side (still allied with Stanley) he could perhaps orchestrate something like having single infantry/warlord units in the field under his control. Stanley's units end there move there, and 'give up' so are all captured. Then once all units are captured, Stanley ends his turn. Parson then allows all of Stanley's troops to 'escape' since they have full move as of the start of Parson's turn, with a single Stanley unit nearby to 'reclaim' the now 'refugee' units, reverting them back fully to Stanley's side. Then when Stanley's turn comes up, they once again gain full move and can repeat the trick. This would essentially double the movement of Stanley's units (And Parson's, since he could use the same trick) so long as they can meet up their units and orchestrate the surrender/release. They might not even need the 'rescue' to happen by using standard release mechanism for returning captives.

The only potential problem with this plan is that it would likely result in also having to pay all the unit's upkeep twice in exchange for the double move speed. Still, that could be worth it for short term 'slingshots' to get troops to vital areas. Well, and the problem that Stanley would likely not be willing to let Parson start his own side, no matter how much magic dust Maggie throws at him.

Oh, and back to the original point: If the archers and such had move, they could move out, but they might be garrison units, and thus not have any move in the first place. So, there may or may not be any living units in the capital. Also keep in mind that the entire hex was an inferno, not just the garrison, so any theoretically captured archers on the walls would have likely burned up as well.
Taikei no Yuurei
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby zyxophoj » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:15 am

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:My money is on Parson striking a finishing blow at Jetstones' new capital with an army of decrypted transported via the portal as corpses via a carried item hack...


Hah. Why capture just one Jetstone capital off-turn when you can take two?

I'm not quite sure how this would work. Even if Parson gets a load of bodies into the enemy portal room and Wanda decrypts them, there's still the move issue. GK has to take the courtyard, dungeon and tower to own the city. Courtyard is possible, since they'd already be there, but they have no move so they can't even enter the tower or dungeon.

Hmm, well, dungeon is underground so it's probably possible to fall into it. As for the tower, can Sizemore knock it down? Turn the rock it's built on into mud, or something?

This actually looks plausible. If it works, Tramennis and his stack become barbarians, any Jetstone units outside cities disappear, and the cities become neutral. Also, the portal at Jetstone disappears, which would leave all GK casters stuck there. (They could try to get out just before the city is taken but Tramennis is smart and he could spring a trap by disbanding all remaining units.) Still, the city probably won't be on fire this time.
zyxophoj
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:33 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:21 am

Actually move isn't an issue since you can change which part of a city you're in without move. You just can't go from flying to not flying unless you actually own the city. At least, that's what I remember, might be wrong.
Taikei no Yuurei
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby LordAcme » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:54 am

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I think Charlie wants Parson to see him as a friend. He offered to 'capture' him to save him from GK. He offered the scroll to get home instead of trying to kill him. I think he's trying to build some Loyalty and is really trying to get him on his side. I figure the scroll won't send Parson home, but instead into the employ of Charlie.


I had somewhat of a similar theory - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6536&start=80#p96691

But yours is simpler. It does require Jojo to have been lying directly to Parson about the scroll sending him home though. Possible, but a break in style for the comic. Very few people seem to directly lie (Parson is the most common one).
LordAcme
Tool + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Mikalyaran » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:03 am

LordAcme wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I think Charlie wants Parson to see him as a friend. He offered to 'capture' him to save him from GK. He offered the scroll to get home instead of trying to kill him. I think he's trying to build some Loyalty and is really trying to get him on his side. I figure the scroll won't send Parson home, but instead into the employ of Charlie.


I had somewhat of a similar theory - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6536&start=80#p96691

But yours is simpler. It does require Jojo to have been lying directly to Parson about the scroll sending him home though. Possible, but a break in style for the comic. Very few people seem to directly lie (Parson is the most common one).


It only a lie if Jojo knew the thruth. Charlie might not have told him that.
User avatar
Mikalyaran
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:03 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Mikalyaran » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:10 am

Lipkin wrote:
gazes_also wrote:There seems to be a big general assumption that Parson must always win. I think Parson will suffer a major defeat before this is done.

He has crossed the threshold into the adventure; he has recently had revealed to him that he has a higher purpose than he imagines but he has rejected the idea. He must now suffer a reverse, pay a price and be motivated to follow the higher purpose. He then undertakes the journey of trials to be prepared and equipped to face his antagonist.

Basically Parson has no motivation to go after Charlie; he's a pain in the butt to Parson trying to his job as GK's CWL, but beyond that he has no reason to go up against an enemy as powerful as Charlie...yet.

Bad stuff is going to happen to Parson and those he cares about.

Charlie has gone to extreme lengths to have Parson killed. That enough is reason for Parson to take the fight to him. Ignoring him would be a mistake, and not one Parson is likely to make.


Yeah. Parson's own words expressed his motivation. He said pretty clearly in the eyebook he would be coming for Charlie.

Parson: Chuck you, Farley. Why are you so afraid of me? Cause you know I'm gonna find a way out and come after you now.

Charlie interferred in Parson's plan before and cost him. Without Charlie's interference at BfGK Parson probably wouldn't have had to uncroak the volcano. And without Charlies interference at Spacerock his would have been an victory for GK as well and Parson wouldn 't be cheif warlord. Instead he has had one hell of a turn where he almost died, a lot of his troops were killed as well as a close personal friend. Id say he has plenty of motivation to come after Charlie.

In light of those facts its not too hard to argue that Charlie is Parson's true enemy and the only one he needs to be concerned with really.
User avatar
Mikalyaran
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:03 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Whispri » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:33 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Actually move isn't an issue since you can change which part of a city you're in without move. You just can't go from flying to not flying unless you actually own the city. At least, that's what I remember, might be wrong.

Not quite, you can't move between city zones (airspace, garrison, tunnels etc) without move or ownership of the city... but the garrison is all one zone, you can move between the dungeon, the courtyard and the tower whenever you like, regardless of turn or ownership. If you couldn't move between garrison zones without move, Wanda would still be stuck in the atrium.

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
fehler wrote:Just a thought: There are 300 or so usable bodies in the garrison. There is an unnamed number of shackled units in Spacerock proper, mainly archers on the outer wall that haven't been brought in for a garrison rush. None of whom have the move to escape, since we learned that fugitives move on their captor's turn, and its not the captor's turn right now. I'd enjoy seeing the return of Mary Sagittari.

Actually, if they had move, they could move right now. Remember that Olive was captured on her turn, but everyone was still concerned about her leaving the city, so it stands to reason that she could, and they weren't just getting the ruling wrong. How does that work? She had full move. Move refreshes at the start of your turn (and possibly when promoted from garrison), and is depleted when your side ends turn or you go from one hex to another. So despite the fact that in the future she would refresh her move at the start of FAQs turn and not her original side's, in the mean time she still has her move, and as long as you have move, you can use it, even if it maybe isn't 'your turn' per say. This is likely one of the very few examples of when someone can move outside of when they would generally have move. There might actually be some interesting rules exploits that Parson could take advantage of there. For example, if he were to split off to another side (still allied with Stanley) he could perhaps orchestrate something like having single infantry/warlord units in the field under his control. Stanley's units end there move there, and 'give up' so are all captured. Then once all units are captured, Stanley ends his turn. Parson then allows all of Stanley's troops to 'escape' since they have full move as of the start of Parson's turn, with a single Stanley unit nearby to 'reclaim' the now 'refugee' units, reverting them back fully to Stanley's side. Then when Stanley's turn comes up, they once again gain full move and can repeat the trick. This would essentially double the movement of Stanley's units (And Parson's, since he could use the same trick) so long as they can meet up their units and orchestrate the surrender/release. They might not even need the 'rescue' to happen by using standard release mechanism for returning captives.

The only potential problem with this plan is that it would likely result in also having to pay all the unit's upkeep twice in exchange for the double move speed. Still, that could be worth it for short term 'slingshots' to get troops to vital areas. Well, and the problem that Stanley would likely not be willing to let Parson start his own side, no matter how much magic dust Maggie throws at him.

Oh, and back to the original point: If the archers and such had move, they could move out, but they might be garrison units, and thus not have any move in the first place. So, there may or may not be any living units in the capital. Also keep in mind that the entire hex was an inferno, not just the garrison, so any theoretically captured archers on the walls would have likely burned up as well.

Mary and her siblings are indeed garrison units. Now they might have been promoted... but we don't know if that would grant them move this turn. They may have been forgotten again in the chaos. So may Ace's mount for that matter, the one with Netty the Archon strapped to it.
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 112

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:44 pm

Ah, couldn't quite remember how the zones were split up. I knew there was some movement allowed because Wanda wasn't stuck in the atrium any more.

Based on Parson promoting himself mid turn though, I'd assume it gives him move. I'm not sure exactly -why- he promoted himself though. He can go through the portal to GK and back without problems without move, but maybe going to Jetstone counts as a move, only your home portal is move free. Actually, come to think of it, he promoted himself off turn from a garrison unit to a regular unit. That raises interesting questions. If it did give him move, that means that movement at night -is- possible, but only for units promoted from garrison. If not, then it raises the question of why he bothered promoting himself in the first place, since he wouldn't have gained move, which is the only known benefit of being promoted from garrison... So either it gives move or Parson did something entirely pointless. And given that this is Parson we're talking about.... yeah.
Taikei no Yuurei
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Khime, Prodigial_Knight and 14 guests