Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:56 pm

LordAcme wrote:I've read through the posts but don't see anyone mentioning what I believe is a fact. Don't sides only have turns when they have battlespace contact?

No, they always have turns. What they don't have when there is no battlespace contact is an order in which they take their turns during a day. Because if there isn't going to be a fight, does it really matter who does what first? As a side note, Civ V recently (relatively speaking) employed this with their game. It used to be entirely simultaneous while doing multiplayer non-hot seat play, but they changed it so that it is simultaneous until you are at war with someone, then you and that person take your turns in a particular order, while everyone else remains simultaneous.

@lipkin - As for the food, that was something I thought of, but your interpretation of a 'day' not having to involve a 'night' ruins the argument I had prepared for it. That does put you back at a time limit though. I put in the addendum that a time limit doesn't necessarily mean that the turn just ends at a set time, just that you will end your turn after a set time. So you will eventually end your turn after some time, if only to avoid starving to death, which... we don't know if that can actually happen or not. I mean, if your upkeep isn't paid that is possibly what happens in a way, but we don't know if it is possible to die from not eating, so long as your upkeep is paid. Of course, if starving is the only reason you would end turn, and erfworlders can go for several days without eating like stupidworlders, then the time limit would be far longer than the 16 hours or so of daylight you might expect. And the time could be extended greatly with rations and the like.
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Lipkin » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:39 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Lipkin wrote:If given the choice, would you rather sleep while stuff was going on, or when you knew you were completely safe, like during the night?
The night isn't the only time when it's completely safe. It's also completely safe for the whole of your turn when the enemy can't do anything. If I was in your version of Erfworld I would always get plenty of sleep because there is no reason to end the turn until everyone is very well rested. Every unit should pick up a good book from the library each turn, because there's no reason to not give them time to read it cover-to-cover before ending the turn, with plenty of time for a tea break, and all of that on top of each unit performing its duties.

The enemy can scout on your turn, as well as other things. The only time you know for certain you don't need to worry is at night.

And yeah, no reason not to have them read a new book each day, beyond units not seeming to care about history. The books given to Parson early in book 1 didn't seem terribly helpful. Units seem to have some degree of free time, which would be eaten into by ordered reading.
User avatar
Lipkin
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Lilwik » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:24 am

Lipkin wrote:The enemy can scout on your turn, as well as other things. The only time you know for certain you don't need to worry is at night.
What can the enemy do on your turn that they can't do at night? What do you mean by "scout"? Enemy scouts have no Move on your turn, so scouting can't be nearly as aggressive as it can be on the enemy turn. If you mean that enemy scouts might be hidden in your hex watching you without you being aware of it, then surely that's no different from enemy scouts watching you at night.
Lilwik
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Lipkin » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:56 am

Lilwik wrote:
Lipkin wrote:The enemy can scout on your turn, as well as other things. The only time you know for certain you don't need to worry is at night.
What can the enemy do on your turn that they can't do at night? What do you mean by "scout"? Enemy scouts have no Move on your turn, so scouting can't be nearly as aggressive as it can be on the enemy turn. If you mean that enemy scouts might be hidden in your hex watching you without you being aware of it, then surely that's no different from enemy scouts watching you at night.

Units with the scout special can move off turn. They cannot move at night.
User avatar
Lipkin
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby ManaCaster » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:06 am

Lipkin wrote:Units with the scout special can move off turn.

I can't seem to remember that one. Could you give us a reference?
ManaCaster
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Lipkin » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:15 am

ManaCaster wrote:
Lipkin wrote:Units with the scout special can move off turn.

I can't seem to remember that one. Could you give us a reference?

I could have sworn I read it somewhere. In a discussion about movement, which also addressed vehicles. Trying to track it down.
User avatar
Lipkin
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Rhieks » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:41 am

I don't get it. Why would units get croaked rather than go barbarian if Olive turns? Isn't there also a way to just peacefully surrender her side to Faq?
Rhieks
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Beeskee » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:24 am

Units can report scouting results off-turn by going up to the hex border and talking across it to friendly units on the other side. No move required. Enough units in a continuous relay can pass messages along to someone with a hat, or directly to a city.

I do think I remember something about turnamancy letting certain units move off-turn, but no specifics were mentioned.


Rhieks wrote:I don't get it. Why would units get croaked rather than go barbarian if Olive turns? Isn't there also a way to just peacefully surrender her side to Faq?


If they are in the field - in other words, not in a city - and there is no heir, they will disband. This was referenced in a number of places, most dramatically in the text update that described the end of Unaroyal. Even heirs run the risk of losing some troops in the field. This was shown in the text update where Wanda was made heir but lost most of her uncroaked troops.
User avatar
Beeskee
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby ManaCaster » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:42 am

Lipkin wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:
Lipkin wrote:Units with the scout special can move off turn.

I can't seem to remember that one. Could you give us a reference?

I could have sworn I read it somewhere. In a discussion about movement, which also addressed vehicles. Trying to track it down.

The only page I can remember about vehicles is this one: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/IPTSF_Text_44
There is nothing in it about scouts.

Beeskee wrote:Units can report scouting results off-turn by going up to the hex border and talking across it to friendly units on the other side. No move required. Enough units in a continuous relay can pass messages along to someone with a hat, or directly to a city.

Doable, but generally we have seen other methods in play. Doombats have a natural Thinkamancy special with limited range. Scouts without such specials tend to communicate by Hat or Thinkagram.

Beeskee wrote:I do think I remember something about turnamancy letting certain units move off-turn, but no specifics were mentioned.

I don't remember that one. I can't remember a single thing about moving off turn, aside from Jillian's speculation about the Arkenshoes or traveling through the Magic Kingdom.
ManaCaster
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Rizban » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:34 am

Zeku wrote:Sides are limited by move and juice, not by anything else. Time is divided into turns, not hours or any other discreet unit.


Capturing a side's ruler and using that as a slave faction forever doesn't sound like a real exploit.

We don't know what type of stuff a ruler has to do every turn to maintain the side (like visit buildings in a city to make it work efficiently)

Without a ruler free to do whatever it wants, the side probably goes bankrupt or otherwise dissolves pretty quickly.

You're also forgetting Duty which is no longer applicable once it's clear that a Ruler is no longer serving the side's interests.
But, as I mentioned, you eliminate the heirs. Duty to the side would then entail ensuring the side continues to exist. If going against orders given to you by the captors of your ruler will immediately end your entire side, then would not Duty require you to obey for the preservation of your side?

0beron wrote:
Mikalyaran wrote:Haffaton may be managing but I bet they arn't doing so very well just now. Communication must be really limited. Do they even have any caster's left to facilitate things? And I wonder who their CWL even is. Doesn't seem super relevant to the story as it is being told yet. The trail may cause things to play out before they become relevant. But it would be nice to get some answers.

Maybe there is a management special instead of the leadership special for the city managers. I'd bet their primary lure is a low upkeep compared to warlords whose more versitile leadership bonus cost a lot.

All great questions, ones I was considering too. From what we've learned it seems that casters under Haffaton have uniformly suffered. I'm going to have to go back and re-read some of what Wanda revealed to Jillian to piece more together. I suspect Wanda is what's been holding them together, with her multi-casting ability. The eye-manikin and some of her other abilities must allow some degree of communication, so without her they're screwed from the sounds of it.
Based on Jillian's raid, it seems like most cities are defended by plants and other mindless, low/no upkeep creatures that require no instruction beyond "defend this city." Combine that with traps and watching via Lookamancy and with a Ruler's Natural Thinkamancy overview of their side. For Haffaton's method of doing things, that would be fairly efficient, as they would effectively be gathering the income from each city and funneling it to other cities, only popping troops on the outskirts of their territories.

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:The biggest thing I wondered about was when Stanley mentioned that he might not have time to make it to the throne room to change the capital to Spacerock to save Parson. It could just be that he was trying to talk himself out of it, but it made me think if it actually mattered if he went through all that fancy stuff, or just took a leasurly stroll, stopped for a sandwich, had a quick nap, and then changed the capital side. After all, it was stated quite plainly that time flowed differently in different hexes.... but also stated that time was consistently 'one-thousand-one' makes a second, and those add up to a day. So since Stanley isn't in the same hex as Parson, wouldn't time flow differently? And since order is what matters, wouldn't it only matter that Stanley intended to change the capital before Parson was croaked? We don't really have an answer to this, though maybe the fact that he just barely made it in time indicates that yes indeed, because he wanted to change the capital before parson croaked, he managed to make it before Parson croaked.
An Inferno has separate rules, indicated by the description of different types of fires and how they behave. My assumption is that an Inferno has a discrete time limit to it before it consumes everything in the hex. This is the only actual indication of a specific time limit seen so far in the comic and is applicable in only this one situation.

Lilwik wrote:
Lipkin wrote:If given the choice, would you rather sleep while stuff was going on, or when you knew you were completely safe, like during the night?
The night isn't the only time when it's completely safe. It's also completely safe for the whole of your turn when the enemy can't do anything. If I was in your version of Erfworld I would always get plenty of sleep because there is no reason to end the turn until everyone is very well rested. Every unit should pick up a good book from the library each turn, because there's no reason to not give them time to read it cover-to-cover before ending the turn, with plenty of time for a tea break, and all of that on top of each unit performing its duties.
You've got it backwards. It's the night that makes the units rested. Or rather, it's the coming of morning that does it. There was the update where Wanda tortured Jillian all night. Come morning, the wounds healed, the body became rested, and rations popped. It had nothing to do with sleep and everything to do with the end of Night, i.e. the "Rest Phase".
User avatar
Rizban
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:27 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:24 am

Rizban wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
Lipkin wrote:If given the choice, would you rather sleep while stuff was going on, or when you knew you were completely safe, like during the night?
The night isn't the only time when it's completely safe. It's also completely safe for the whole of your turn when the enemy can't do anything. If I was in your version of Erfworld I would always get plenty of sleep because there is no reason to end the turn until everyone is very well rested. Every unit should pick up a good book from the library each turn, because there's no reason to not give them time to read it cover-to-cover before ending the turn, with plenty of time for a tea break, and all of that on top of each unit performing its duties.
You've got it backwards. It's the night that makes the units rested. Or rather, it's the coming of morning that does it. There was the update where Wanda tortured Jillian all night. Come morning, the wounds healed, the body became rested, and rations popped. It had nothing to do with sleep and everything to do with the end of Night, i.e. the "Rest Phase".

Except Maggie pointed out specifically that, for casters at least, sleep helps with casting, and presumably other things as well. Sure, the body will still be healed up at dawn, but it doesn't mean you'll be rested. You might be less tired than you would pulling an all nighter in Stupidworld, but her statement shows that you wouldn't be at 100% either.
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Jinren » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:40 am

Rizban wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:The biggest thing I wondered about was when Stanley mentioned that he might not have time to make it to the throne room to change the capital to Spacerock to save Parson. It could just be that he was trying to talk himself out of it, but it made me think if it actually mattered if he went through all that fancy stuff, or just took a leasurly stroll, stopped for a sandwich, had a quick nap, and then changed the capital side. After all, it was stated quite plainly that time flowed differently in different hexes.... but also stated that time was consistently 'one-thousand-one' makes a second, and those add up to a day. So since Stanley isn't in the same hex as Parson, wouldn't time flow differently? And since order is what matters, wouldn't it only matter that Stanley intended to change the capital before Parson was croaked? We don't really have an answer to this, though maybe the fact that he just barely made it in time indicates that yes indeed, because he wanted to change the capital before parson croaked, he managed to make it before Parson croaked.
An Inferno has separate rules, indicated by the description of different types of fires and how they behave. My assumption is that an Inferno has a discrete time limit to it before it consumes everything in the hex. This is the only actual indication of a specific time limit seen so far in the comic and is applicable in only this one situation.


Since Parson and Stanley are in communication by eyebook and thinkagram, and their actions are directly dependent upon each other (Parson inspires Stanley into movement, Parson is waiting on a capital change), there's some notion that "action" - certainly cause and effect - is being shared between these two hexes. Either this causes them to share a timestream, or the simple repeated use of eyebooks keeps bringing them into sync with only a small amount of leeway (time might be going say 50% slower at GK, allowing Stanley time for some dramatic posing but at some point another message is going to come in and resync the hexes).

Actually this might lead to the amusing scenario that too much communication could actually cause a side problems, by preventing the ruler from getting free time to think things through (but if your leader is Stanley, it might be worth the tradeoff of prodding him a few times). EDIT: Perhaps this is why JS was using magic hats extensively earlier on; unlike a thinkagram they might not demand that time be in sync to use them, since they're both one-way and not real-time.
Jinren
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby jkosta » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:05 am

I wouldn't be surprised if restful sleep was impossible during the daytime.
jkosta
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:41 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby bladestorm » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:39 pm

Lilwik wrote:
bladestorm wrote:There is no benefit to not ending Turn, other than delaying the inevitable.
It would give Parson unlimited time to plan, as well as give him time to learn everything Sizemore, Wanda, and Jack know about magic and read the entire content of the library, all while getting as much sleep as he could ever want.

There is still no benefit to extending the turn indefinitely. It is a dynamic time system based upon a TBS, until there is interaction between two sides, at which point Turn Order is invoked and its shifts to RTS. Either you are in conflict, or you aren't. If you aren't, you still have unlimited time to do whatever it is you want to do before you call End of Turn. If you are, there is no benefit to not ending turn other than delaying the inevitable. If you eliminate all of your opponents in your hex, and are no longer in conflict, time shifts back to TBS, which means you can take however long you need to prepare for the next turn.

So, to use your own example, Parson takes that time to interrogate Sizemore and Wanda, resurrect Jack to interrogate him as well, reads every book in the library, takes 5 millions naps along the way, and comes up with 9 million of the most brilliant plans EVAR. Then what? Have a movie theatre built and go watch every movie in creation? Prepare for the next wave of attacks that will happen tomorrow, which never comes because you never end turn? Eat every apple in an orchard because you have enough time to chew each one, digest it, and have Sizemore make an army of crap golems until he is completely out of juice? Sit around and challenge the concept of the passage of time by counting 1001 enough times to account for the passage of 24 hours, all while staring at the sun to make sure it moves a fraction of a degree each time you say the word '1001'? Parson can't act on his plans until the next time there is a conflict, which can't happen until next turn.

Extending your own turn to delay that next battle does not make any difference to the opponent. For them, they ended turn, went about their normal night time business, dawn shows up, and they start their day. No different than the night before. Combat resumes, and the enemy warlord has a new plan. Same as any other battle, since night time is when you make your plans.
bladestorm
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby ManaCaster » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 pm

bladestorm wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
bladestorm wrote:There is no benefit to not ending Turn, other than delaying the inevitable.
It would give Parson unlimited time to plan, as well as give him time to learn everything Sizemore, Wanda, and Jack know about magic and read the entire content of the library, all while getting as much sleep as he could ever want.

There is still no benefit to extending the turn indefinitely. It is a dynamic time system based upon a TBS, until there is interaction between two sides, at which point Turn Order is invoked and its shifts to RTS. Either you are in conflict, or you aren't. If you aren't, you still have unlimited time to do whatever it is you want to do before you call End of Turn. If you are, there is no benefit to not ending turn other than delaying the inevitable. If you eliminate all of your opponents in your hex, and are no longer in conflict, time shifts back to TBS, which means you can take however long you need to prepare for the next turn.

So, to use your own example, Parson takes that time to interrogate Sizemore and Wanda, resurrect Jack to interrogate him as well, reads every book in the library, takes 5 millions naps along the way, and comes up with 9 million of the most brilliant plans EVAR. Then what? Have a movie theatre built and go watch every movie in creation? Prepare for the next wave of attacks that will happen tomorrow, which never comes because you never end turn? Eat every apple in an orchard because you have enough time to chew each one, digest it, and have Sizemore make an army of crap golems until he is completely out of juice? Sit around and challenge the concept of the passage of time by counting 1001 enough times to account for the passage of 24 hours, all while staring at the sun to make sure it moves a fraction of a degree each time you say the word '1001'? Parson can't act on his plans until the next time there is a conflict, which can't happen until next turn.

Extending your own turn to delay that next battle does not make any difference to the opponent. For them, they ended turn, went about their normal night time business, dawn shows up, and they start their day. No different than the night before. Combat resumes, and the enemy warlord has a new plan. Same as any other battle, since night time is when you make your plans.

It would only be delaying the inevitable, but if there is no time limit, you could have an awful lot of time to say your last prayers if you're expecting to be defeated the instant you end turn. Actually, heck, if the enemy is in the same hex, just trapped in a different city zone, they would experience your full unlimited turn. The delayed side could get awfully bored. You might even be able to use superior patience to force a compromise.

As to the planning point, it is perfectly valid. There would be no benefit to extending the turn indefinitely, true, but there would be plenty in keeping the turn running until you have a solid idea of what to do, just like any other turn based strategy game. If Parson had had unlimited time to plan, he could have been a lot more confident in his "destroy Jetstone's siege" plan and had a much better idea of what could go wrong. He could've had better consulting on how Suggestion spells work. Personally, I'd say the best proof of a time limit would be this comic: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_40

Stanley specifically complains that he doesn't have time for Parson to study everything he needs to know.
ManaCaster
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby 0beron » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:30 pm

ManaCaster wrote:Stanley specifically complains that he doesn't have time for Parson to study everything he needs to know.

See my earlier response to this:
0beron wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
  1. If time were unlimited, why would Stanley tell Parson that they don't have time to teach him everything he needs to know? See Book 1, Page 40.
  1. Because "time" in that sense is meaning many things. For one I think it's really implying he simply doesn't have the patience so he's making up lame excuses. But from a legitmate perspective, it also refers to full turns. In ideal situations, it would take many turns to teach a unit about Erfworld because it has to be done from experience (case and point....this entire comic and what Parson is going through to learn about it). But GK didn't have multiple turns in which Parson could learn strategy.

As someone else pointed out, Erflings directly correlate levels with skill/strategy. If you don't have turns to level up in, how could you possibly get any better?
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby Lilwik » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:34 pm

0beron wrote:As someone else pointed out, Erflings directly correlate levels with skill/strategy. If you don't have turns to level up in, how could you possibly get any better?
I agree, that's probably what Stanley meant, at least partially, and it fully explains the quote. If time were unlimited Stanley would have been perfectly correct to say what he said, but I notice that he happened to say "we don't have time" instead of "we don't have enough turns."

In the big picture it doesn't matter, because it's been made perfectly clear in discussion that unlimited time would make many kinds of bizarre things possible; things that we would surely have seen evidence of in the story, and yet we've never seen any of them, and no one has given any explanation for why they haven't happened. Stanley meant both time and turns because they are practically the same thing when there is a time limit for each turn, and thinking otherwise is just being in denial of so many facts that prove the time limit must exist, facts like the motion of the sun and the tactical utility of very long turns that never gets exploited. If people want to ignore facts then there's no point in discussing it; the best you can do is give them more facts to ignore.
Lilwik
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby 0beron » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:45 pm

Lilwik wrote:Unlimited time would make many kinds of bizarre things possible; things that we would surely have seen evidence of in the story, and yet we've never seen any of them, and no one has given any explanation for why they haven't happened.The tactical utility of very long turns that never gets exploited. If people want to ignore facts then there's no point in discussing it; the best you can do is give them more facts to ignore.

The first problem with this reasoning is that you are thinking like an Earthling, like Parson. There are tons of things Parson has done that are all well within the rules of Erfworld but have never been done before because nobody thinks to exploit them. That's kinda the whole point of them comic.

Your second problem is a more social one, which is making the assumption that you are clearly/obviously right. What you have is incidental, sometimes out-of-context examples that can be twisted in your favor. That's not the same thing as hard factual proof. The REAL fact is that under present conditions, neither theory can be conclusively proven, and probably won't be unless Parson tries to test/exploit it. So behaving like you know all and anyone disagreeing with you is simply a blind idiot is gonna get you into trouble/alienated.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby ManaCaster » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:09 pm

0beron wrote:See my earlier response to this:
0beron wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
  1. If time were unlimited, why would Stanley tell Parson that they don't have time to teach him everything he needs to know? See Book 1, Page 40.
  1. Because "time" in that sense is meaning many things. For one I think it's really implying he simply doesn't have the patience so he's making up lame excuses. But from a legitmate perspective, it also refers to full turns. In ideal situations, it would take many turns to teach a unit about Erfworld because it has to be done from experience (case and point....this entire comic and what Parson is going through to learn about it). But GK didn't have multiple turns in which Parson could learn strategy.

As someone else pointed out, Erflings directly correlate levels with skill/strategy. If you don't have turns to level up in, how could you possibly get any better?

So, you're saying that the only reason Parson didn't have enough time to learn and plan was because Stanley was misunderstanding the problem, as well as too impatient and unreasonable to give him any by holding the turn? I mean, he really is, and I realize that Erfworlders have a different perspective on things. But it still seems like a bit of a broad way to interpret his statement to me. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Just to be certain what we're arguing about, are you arguing for the theory that turns have unlimited time, or are you just giving us your own interpretation of things that have been presented as evidence for the other theory?

If the former, no one has addressed the "hold the enemy in a different city zone until they get bored and compromise" problem. It also causes problems with the whole "days take 24 real world hours within a given hex, in spite of the fact that the time in each hex is flowing at a different rate at a given time from other hexes" rule.
ManaCaster
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:06 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 068

Postby 0beron » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 pm

Well to be honest I'm actually undecided about whether I believe turns are limited or infinite in time, because I don't believe the evidence is good enough for either theory. If anything, I feel like the evidence seems to contradict itself. I lean slightly towards unlimited though simply because there seems more evidence against limited duration, but I'm not 100% sold on it.

I do think that Stanley's comment was motivated by a lack of understanding and patience. As for the holding an enemy in another city zone, 1) I don't envision it happening very often if at all because you'd need a Kingworld in order to pull it off and 2) I think that kind of tactic might be borderline Parson-esque, since Erfworld instincts are to fightfightfight. Even Olive only delayed fighting in a city as a means to ensure a more favorable fight for her side.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests