Book 2 - Page 113

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Manic Oppressive » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:20 pm

I've gotta be honest, the prevailing thought to me is that Parson has a wonderful thing on his arm that no doubt told him the exact odds of this working. I don't think he'd be doing this if the odds were against him.
Why yes, I do like Jillian. WHAT OF IT?
Manic Oppressive
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:46 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lamech » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:24 pm

If the casters launch a coordinated attack, or an uncoordinated attack for that matter, this is over before it begins. Janice locks combat and Joe Dirt rains rocks down, the thinkamancers mind control, carnies do what carnies do, and the predictamancers tell everyone exactly how GK is gonna lose. Those few hundred soldiers are simply not a match for the power of casters. This isn't a fight between SWAT team members and pistol wielding academics. This is a fight between dark age infantry and modern combat engineers, drones controllers and the like.

Now if they don't act in unison... if a fight breaks out or Parson gets a good number of kills off and the decryption ball starts rolling well that's another story. Suddenly Parson has the fancy links super hippies dirtamancy and friends. An uncoordinated scatter bunch of casters vs. a coordinated group led by Parson with decryption? Also Manic has a point. Parson has the Bracer. He made the right call here.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby davidj » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:54 pm

Re Cubbins, wasn't he aided by the tower's prepared air-defense spells?
davidj
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby CNagy » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:32 am

Don't most casters have little or no up-close combat experience? Something about them being very expensive and very squishy that keeps them from the front lines. Any combat experience a caster has (outside of a few disciplines) would likely be defense of a city, where you've got walls and garrisons and towers, etc--in other words, range.

Cubbins used the tower defenses (mentioned prior, but not used before his light show, so it is a safe bet that he used it before the tower could fall) and did croak quite a few archons--but at that point, Wanda had left (depriving them her bonuses) and Ossomer had turned (depriving the Archons of the bonus they would have had if he had immediately restacked with them as the Jetstone casters feared he would when they contemplated blasting him out of the sky with the tower defenses.) So Cubbins did kill a lot of archons, at range, but they were about as weak as they could be.

Delphi croaked a lot of mounted units--but again, at range. And in an extended exchange of fire.

Only three of the rest of the examples occur in combat and only Sizemore's occurred in what was essentially close-quarters combat.

Now, what Parson has with him are at the very least infantry, possibly some knights, at least one high level warlord (possibly 2? I haven't gone back to identify headgear.) They have Wanda's decryption bonus, the artifact bonus, the CWL bonus, and whatever stack bonus--possibly some bonuses I'm forgetting. Chances are every unit in that group that gets the bulk of those bonuses is a monster. And they are mere paces away from the casters.

Then you have to wonder whether a caster's first loyalty is to the MK or his side. How many casters would hightail it to their side's portal rather than engage? Some percentage, to be sure. Then you have to figure that some of the casters are still on Parson's side. This definitely qualifies as a genius move for Parson.
CNagy
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby cheeseaholic » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:36 am

I just don't see the MK putting any kind of unified resistance. Or really much of any resistance at all. There's no way they see it coming, except for the predictamancers and they apparently haven't said anything. The only real threat I see is a combat specialist or two like a shockamancer nuking Parson's range then working through the troops. But by the time that would start Parson would have a couple of decrypted casters (the shockamancer would have to know there's an attack going on) and presumably have enough status effect doing stuff on his side to stop the nuking before it got too far. Parson can outfight everyone in the immediate area (just around the pyramid) at the moment, and after he does he'll be able to out status effect any caster that tries to counterattack. If he starts a fight he should have it easy until he has portal park secure. After that things get a bit tougher, with a whole island to go through and not enough troops to go everywhere at once. I'd say go for the shockamancers and any other direct combat magic areas first before word spreads too far. After that resecure portal park and take the area by sections. Lookamancers might be a good choice after that to know what the enemies are doing, assuming they don't side with Parson.

There's a lot of chance in attacking the island, but the area around the portal should be easy at least. Nobody will expect it. Or believe it when they see it.
cheeseaholic
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Beeskee » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:29 am

Parson is so unPredictable it makes me wonder how he fits into Fate at all.

I don't know if he's about to use his troops as leverage to negotiate a truce of some sort with the Magic Kingdom, or if he's about to make everyone there have a very bad day. :D
User avatar
Beeskee
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby MadZuri » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:59 am

You all seem to be forgetting that Parson has the ability to know beforehand the probability of all of the above scenarios. He has his Bracer still, and it can still do some rather wild calculations. He can calculate how likely it is that the MK will rally together and fight him. He can calculate what forces he will need to defend the portal. He can calculate who is likely to fight him, and what force would be necessary to croak and decrypt them. If you think he tried this gambit without doing those calculations, insanity must be the only reason.
MadZuri
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:39 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:01 am

You know, debate about if it would be possible for Parson to actually take MK or not aside, I don't think Parson would do it based purely on his personality. He might be able to win a fight here thanks to the fact that MK isn't an organized side that can bring all its force down on him at once, but 95% of the casters here haven't done anything to him and are basically 'innocent'. I don't see him killing a bunch of innocents like that, even with the potential gain.

That aside, if he is indeed about to attack MK, he does have the bracer, and knows he has a good/great chance of winning, whatever the odds may seem to us.
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Dystopianman » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:27 am

Get JoJo. Decrypt. Ask JoJo what he knows about Charlie. Send a message to Charlie. Have Thinkamancers and Predictmancers influence the enforcement council towards Parson's side.

Love to see the look on JoJo's face when the walls came tumbling down. He got exactly what he wanted, didn't he? He wanted to meet the Warlord again and here he is! Ta da~!

Just not the way JoJo wanted. Pulled a Carny on the Carny. lulz.
You know me to be a simple man, Vinny. So explain this plan to me once more, in simple terms.
-Don King

QFT
Dystopianman
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:04 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby calyad » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:16 am

I am surprised nobody is thinking Parson-like.

Everyone is talking about combat stats we don't know about. But what does Parson usually do?

Ten rands say he and his decrypted friends are on the other side of the tunnel, the entrance to which was covered with that pyramid-thing, and Jack is screwing with everyone.

The plan is probably to do something else insane, not just fight. Maybe make the MK into his capital, or who knows what.

Parson's awesomeness is that he doesn't just try to maximize his utility of the rules---he exploits the rules. Like the harvesting-dwagons-midair, taking advantage of the falling rules and making a crazy fight possible off-turn.

"A fight" isn't Parson's style. "OMG a new capital side in the MK"---that's more Parson-like.

Although with all this caster-fighting discussion going on, I'd like to point out: when the carnymancers decided to fight, they just started HITTING. With their fists. The casters that they were fighting? HIT BACK. Jannis, who wasn't engaged, did the only spell. Maybe that's what unled combat looks like?
calyad
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:21 am

calyad wrote:Maybe that's what unled combat looks like?

Except that casters are warlord variants and count as leadership units, even though they don't grant a bonus except to units made within their discipline.

Also, if Parson makes a capital in MK (likely impossible because as far as we know it isn't a capital site) he'd have to do something about the hundreds of barbarians in his capital. Also, he'd almost certainly need the express permission of Stanley thanks to the Loyalty effects of the summoning spell.

I do agree however that there is a good chance that is foolamancy. Would explain Issac's reaction to looking into the pyramid better than the actual decrypted I think.
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby zilfallon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:45 am

About "the soldiers are illusion" thing: Why? Casters are ranged, his force is mostly melee. Why would he put them to somewhere far away? And as far as I've noticed, there isn't anything else nearby to hide those troops. Would veiling really work against so many casters? The pyramid seems perfect for that since most casters are now in close range.

Manic Oppressive wrote:I've gotta be honest, the prevailing thought to me is that Parson has a wonderful thing on his arm that no doubt told him the exact odds of this working. I don't think he'd be doing this if the odds were against him.


This. Whatever he is doing, he made sure that his plan has good odds of success.



the_tick_rules wrote:Not guilty, by reason of he could kick our ass if we try anything.


guys, the_tick has officially won this thread.
rkyeun wrote:Roses are red.
Violets are blue.

Image
User avatar
zilfallon
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:47 am
Location: Magic Kingdom

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Thecommander236 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:02 am

Well, the rocker got 'r done. I'll give him that. HE NEEDS A NAME! XD EVERY NEW CHARACTER NEEDS NAME. Nay, but it would be funny.
User avatar
Thecommander236
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:56 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Deo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:25 am

I think a few things are not being considered.

Sizemore can clearly dig underground tunnels in the MK.

On page 112, Parson says to decrypt "three dozen troops, a few knights, and a warlord or two". I presume for city defense.

Parson then tells them to fan out among the garrison and find all the bodies ...and drag them all here.

Next time we see him he says "Yeah, just bring them in here. Stack them like cordwood."

So there should have been a ton of bodies, far more then the ones he ordered in the first round of decrypting, yet he ordered every body found brought to the portal. Granted a lot of bodies might have been lost in the fire, i don't think we know how body/corpse destruction works with disposal, but considering the city was an inferno and he didn't seem to think it would be a problem i presume some sort of remains to decrypt from remain.

Sizemore sealed himself inside the fortress in MK. We have seen that he could tunnel with very little notice from other casters unless they were literally standing right on top of him, and even then it took them awhile.

Think Parson has a basement filled with even more troops then we are seeing?

-Edit-

http://www.erfworld.com/page/27/

Fire rules on this page.

They had previously burned a Unaroyal city to the ground and then rode in and mass-decrypted the remains. So essentially, Parson has a lot of remains to work with.
Last edited by Deo on Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deo
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:40 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Zeku » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:35 am

I agree that we should be discussing 'what kind of crazy thing is Parson going to do in this situation' rather than 'exactly what manner of bloodbath are we looking at,' but I thought correcting the tactical situation was the highest priority, so that we could argue based on what is really happening, rather than the assumption that the MK has any leverage.

I'm going to vote for "capturing some of the various individuals who have been pulling Parson's strings, taking them directly back into Spacerock, and threatening death and decryption if they don't explain everything that's occurring in great detail." And then doing it anyway.

I confess that I'm a little sad that we're getting more of a "good guy vs bad guy" story now that Parson is leaning towards henchmen preservation, but I'm not making any assumptions just yet.
Zeku
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:35 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby ff6shadow » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:05 am

Weird thought. We know non-casters trying to go to the magic kingdom are essentially disbanded. Is the reverse also true? Or can a normal unit pass through the portal to return home safely?
ff6shadow
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Vreejack » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:18 am

Looks like Shar-Teel is uncroaked. Or, technically, the unit who was created to look like Shar-Teel. Does she hate male units, as well? Maybe Sizemore will tame her.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
User avatar
Vreejack
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:04 pm

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby LordAcme » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:36 pm

Lipkin wrote:
0beron wrote:
Lipkin wrote:We know that all the units are lead, because otherwise they would be auto-engaging. My bet is one big stack.

Well as long as there is leadership in the hex, stacks won't auto-engage. The leadership doesn't have to be actually in the stack. But yes, the combined CWL and Wanda bonuses are likely way better, which is why we can suspect they're all stacked together.

Nope. Stack needs to be directly lead.

"For instance, groups of units get a stack bonus that maxes at 8, so you see a lot of 8-man formations. Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals. I don't know how melee works without a Warlord in the group. With a Warlord the fight can be directed, or the group can choose not to initiate a fight."


http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_40a


Nope. Unled stacks with leadership in the hex stand fast until ordered. Without leadership, they autoattack.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -05-19.png

Parson's early notes don't have all of the information. Ex. his first Stupidworld meal's tips omitted the fact that flying units could be attacked over forests by forest-capable units. He had to find that out by study.
LordAcme
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby LordAcme » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:47 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:
0beron wrote:
Zeku wrote:0beron do you at least agree that if Parson attacks right now, he wins easily?

No, I don't. I take issue with the "easily". It's possible he could, but far from certain. Certainly the MK isn't as organized as a formal side, but clearly they have certain conventions and enough co-operation to set up guards at the GK portal for a bit. I'd say it's guaranteed that those in the immediate vicinity will at the very least start fighting wildly without coordination. The possibility of them getting coordinated, and how many casters join in beyond that is what I'd say is up for debate.
If they work cooperatively, even without going so far as a link, Parson's force is toast, no question about it. If however they delay or there is any degree of infighting, Parsons chances of success are directly proportional to the amount of chaos among the MK casters.



Joe Dirt collapses the remaining pyramid ceiling and/or walls down on the GK group. Rock falls.....etc.

-WHY OH WHY- do people think Parson and a small group could 'easily' take over the entire MK that is full of low and high level casters?


Beats me. We don't have a count on the casters in the MK, but from all appearances, they walk in, out and around Portal Park all of the time. Parson would be engaging in the proverbial land war in Asia were he to attempt anything but a strike and retreat. And his decrypted units can't retreat.

And neither can he should anything befall Spacerock, such as Jetstone renewing alliances and ceding the city to anyone who can take it from GK. This is not a good strategic position for Parson at all. He needs to accomplish peace in the MK and get his tushie out without firing a shot, or "pear-shaped" is not going to begin to describe his situation.
LordAcme
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:20 am

Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby thomrenault » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:50 pm

The Magic Kingdom is like the UN if it was located on the Moon. A direct attack on a neutral 'entity' such as the UN or MK, isn't going to provoke a united response ever. It's just pure politics. As soon as Parson pulls off a direct attack, sides are going to immediately try to maximize their advantage, which means there will be total chaos. There won't be a whole lot of folks who get the larger significance of Parson's actions. Charlie is the only one who comes to mind. Everyone else is going to see a power vacuum, and wonder how can I exploit this to my advantage. The barbarian casters are going to split probably equally, for and against the 'old order'. The old order of the Magic Kingdom is already dead though, it ended at the end of Book one, but it took even Parson a while to realize that. Parson's stack will blow through the Carnymancers, and will likely do so unopposed by the conspiracy-to-bring-Parson-to-Erfworld casters there present. (I don't think there were any other disciplines present). Then he will have at least a significant portion of 4 disciplines (Hippy, Predict, Carny and Think) on his side, and will be able to mete out 'peace' in the Magic Kingdom on his own terms.
thomrenault
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Keighvin1 and 2 guests