Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby jkosta » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:26 am

Tonot wrote:The various things like Duty and Loyalty trump their "human" "passions" like love or ego, don't they, to the point that love and ego are merely some sort of mechanic effect, maybe put into the game pieces by plan . . . say some sort of random aspect to make the game a little less determined?. Like the Chance cards in monopoly?.

(edit to add that, I accept they seem to have a sort of limited self-awareness, and maybe something like our illusion of free will too, and wasn't saying that they have no "human" feelings". I was asking if maybe Parsons entire life with "real" human feelings, makes him extra special vulnerable in a way the Erf-worlders are not.)


To quote this very update: "Loyalty is more complex than you know."
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby ftl » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:35 am

Tonot wrote:Oh, they are real "people" right enough. They are not human though, in many of the ways a human can be measured.


Oh come on, now you're just splitting hairs.

No parents. No children.


They do have parents. Wanda's father was Overlord Firebaugh. She was very fond of her brother, Atomic Firebaugh.

I could go on from there, but personally, I think if we come across aliens one day, that are somehow extremely "human" look-a-like, joke, love, laugh, scheme, etc, but have no (have never had in their species experience in fact) parents, or children, only an enthusiast would be calling them "human".


Eh, no, anybody would be calling them human.

And actually they seem to me to be exactly game pieces. The various things like Duty and Loyalty trump their "human" "passions" like love or ego, don't they,


No... that's the point, they don't.

Look at Jillian and Wanda, the whole thing going on between them for the better part of two books and a prequel now. Their personal relationship has been trumping their Duty to their sides for a long time. The whole debacle at Spacerock could have been avoided if Wanda would have just croaked Jillian with dwagons in the air battle... but Wanda wasn't going to do that. And nor was Jillian going to croak Wanda. J

to the point that love and ego are merely some sort of mechanic effect,


Erfworlders consider everything to be a mechanic effect. Saying "love and ego are just some sort of mechanic effect" doesn't make them any less real. Just like in the real world, saying "love and ego are just physics, brain chemicals and atoms moving around" doesn't make those things any less real.

maybe put into the game pieces by plan . . . say some sort of random aspect to make the game a little less determined?. Like the Chance cards in monopoly?.


Perhaps that's why the Titans made things the way they did. Perhaps it isn't. What does that matter?

(edit to add that, I accept they seem to have a sort of limited self-awareness, and maybe something like our illusion of free will too, and wasn't saying that they have no "human" feelings". I was asking if maybe Parsons entire life with "real" human feelings, makes him extra special vulnerable in a way the Erf-worlders are not.)


Seems unlikely. Erfworlders have spent their entire lives with real human feelings too, as real as Parson's. Different in some ways, of course, but more similar than different.

Jillian went to war for love of Ansom?. No, I think she was born to war, lived it so she could earn smuckers to pay her upkeep so she could live day to day so she could earn smuckers waging war etc etc, and during just one of all her days alive that were spent at war she took a different side at the urging of the "random" urge of the "chance card" mechanic "love"


Huh? How was it random? She makes it pretty clear that the whole reason she allied with Jetstone and came to the fight was for Ansom. Ansom was the hook that Charlie used to get her involved in the first place! She came to Jetstone, fought, captured Ansom, and left.

To be clear, that's the war I meant, the fight with the RCCII in this last book.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Tonot » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:37 am

Tell me you are not holding your tongue just right, and mining for examples that allow you to prove they are human?.

Just being specific, factual, they are not humans, you know.

They seem something like close analogues of humans, ok, but they are not human.

Wanda's "father" was only so because of a mechanical effect, "Popping". So too her brother. Yes, they had a relationship that at first glance seems like the human one, but, seriously now, similar isn't the same.

They may seem in many ways similar to humans, but their lives are at, and in fact even start at , literal whim of random events. No father or mother decides to have them, raise them, contributes half their actual genetic code to form them, then inculcates the infant mind with all the various personal touches that human parents give their children.
The Erf-world apple doesn't actually fall from the tree , far or near. Ansom wasn't a prig because Daddy didn't love him enough, Tremannis didn't have 'different" Signamancy because his mothers wombs' hormone level fell within a certain set of bounds. Their natures are theirs from their "popping" and they are set mechanically, and that my friends is not the least bit human. We would call it inhuman if it happened in one of our children.
They don't even learn, and earn a trade; mere random odds fall one way and they are a caster, another, a warlord. They "Auto-engage" in actions if the case just happens to be that they have no-one on hand to Order them to engage in actions.

They are not humans.

And specifically to what I was asking, Parson has spent his entire life as a ( assuming we nerds still qualify) human, in human company, human society. Now his company, society, is these non-human, randomly-controlled-often people.

I guess you have encountered humans from social systems, belief systems other than the ones you were raised in?.

Care to tell me that your emotional and social responses were always identical to theirs, regardless of the differences in your up-bringing?.

"Maggie smiled at him, her eyes crinkling. "What an utterly alien thing to think. But also, utterly charming."

""Okay well...it doesn't work like that where I'm from," said Parson uncomfortably."

How many ways does one have to make the same point?. I accept they are people. You must accept they are not human people. How is a lone human people going to be especially vulnerable to the non-human people he is in the middle of?.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Dante » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:37 am

Tonot wrote:And actually they seem to me to be exactly game pieces. The various things like Duty and Loyalty trump their "human" "passions" like love or ego, don't they, to the point that love and ego are merely some sort of mechanic effect, maybe put into the game pieces by plan . . . say some sort of random aspect to make the game a little less determined?. Like the Chance cards in monopoly?.

Clearly Love trumps Loyalty and Duty. Didn't we just get through the part of the prologue where Loj Banhammer nearly destroys his own kingdom because he falls in love with a Hippiemancer?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby ftl » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:58 am

Tonot wrote:Tell me you are not holding your tongue just right, and mining for examples that allow you to prove they are human?.

Just being specific, factual, they are not humans, you know.


They are basically as human as Parson. Well, the human ones are, not the elves or marbits or gumps or whatever. Those are elves or marbits or gumps or whatever. Man, it's even canon - their race is listed as Men!

I mean, of course at the end of the day they are all just characters in a webcomic, but that still leaves Parson as human as any of them.

They seem something like close analogues of humans, ok, but they are not human.


They're a little bit smaller in size and they live in a weird game-like universe. Those are the main differences. Most of the differences can be traced back to the world they live in.

If you want to understand their actions, think of them as people with different life experiences, rather than aliens. Makes the whole comic make a lot more sense, you know.

Wanda's "father" was only so because of a mechanical effect, "Popping". So too her brother.


Well, yeah. Erfworld has mechanics instead of (/in addition to?) physics. So of course anything that happens is due to a mechanical effect.

Yes, they had a relationship that at first glance seems like the human one, but, seriously now, similar isn't the same.


It's close enough.

They may seem in many ways similar to humans, but their lives are at, and in fact even start at , literal whim of random events.


Well, yeah, they live extremely different lives than us because they're living in a different universe. Duh.

No father or mother decides to have them,


They do actually... their popping is typically deliberate. More deliberate than on Earth, in fact! I don't think there's ever been a side which accidentally ordered a commander popped! ;)

raise them, contributes half their actual genetic code to form them, then inculcates the infant mind with all the various personal touches that human parents give their children.
The Erf-world apple doesn't actually fall from the tree , far or near. Ansom wasn't a prig because Daddy didn't love him enough, Tremannis didn't have 'different" Signamancy because his mothers wombs' hormone level fell within a certain set of bounds.


And so on and so forth, yes.

Erfworld is very different from the real world. I get it.

Their natures are theirs from their "popping" and they are set mechanically, and that my friends is not the least bit human. We would call it inhuman if it happened in one of our children.


Inhuman isn't the first word that comes to mind; the one that comes to mind is "impossible". It's a fantasy comic - of course lots of things are different.

Lots of the things that "make Erfworlders inhuman" also apply to Parson now, btw. He too gives and receives orders via natural thinkamancy, automatically heals at dawn and runs into hex boundaries, levels, is bound by duty and contracts and all that. And yeah, he's not human in the sense that he's a character in a webcomic, but within the webcomic he's just as human as everyone he's interacting with.

They don't even learn, and earn a trade; mere random odds fall one way and they are a caster, another, a warlord. They "Auto-engage" in actions if the case just happens to be that they have no-one on hand to Order them to engage in actions.


How are any of those things intrinsic to being human?

They are not humans.


It's canon - look at the descriptions of the characters that were introduced recently. "Race: men". Human they are.

And specifically to what I was asking, Parson has spent his entire life as a ( assuming we nerds still qualify) human, in human company, human society. Now his company, society, is these non-human, randomly-controlled-often people.

I guess you have encountered humans from social systems, belief systems other than the ones you were raised in?.

Care to tell me that your emotional and social responses were always identical to theirs, regardless of the differences in your up-bringing?.


Of course, his emotional and social responses are different because he's been brought up in a different society. Not because he's human and they're not!

"Maggie smiled at him, her eyes crinkling. "What an utterly alien thing to think. But also, utterly charming."

""Okay well...it doesn't work like that where I'm from," said Parson uncomfortably."

How many ways does one have to make the same point?.


Just one valid one ;)

I accept they are people. You must accept they are not human people.


Dictionary.com:

people
1. persons indefinitely or collectively; persons in general: to find it easy to talk to people; What will people think?
2. persons, whether men, women, or children, considered as numerable individuals forming a group: Twenty people volunteered to help.
3. human beings, as distinguished from animals or other beings.

man
1. an adult male person, as distinguished from a boy or a woman.
2. a member of the species Homo sapiens or all the members of this species collectively, without regard to sex
3. the human individual as representing the species, without reference to sex; the human race; humankind
4. a human being; person:


How is a lone human people going to be especially vulnerable to the non-human people he is in the middle of?.


Based on how this story is going, it's the Erfworlders that are especially vulnerable to Parson, not the other way around!

He's shown no signs of being more emotionally vulnerable than erfworlders, I think. He's at times more reluctant to kill, but seems to have had no trouble getting over that.
Less than Sizemore, for example.
Jillian and Wanda have been screwing up everyone's plans due to their messed-up love history. They seem more vulnerable than Parson as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Lilwik » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:20 am

Tonot wrote:Just being specific, factual, they are not humans, you know.
We can't be sure of that. How much of what's different about them comes from their nature, and how much comes from their world? Erfworld is very different from Stupidworld, including a lot of magic and amazing features, including the popping of people, but just because the people are popped doesn't mean they aren't fully human once the magic has done its work. They certainly seem human.

We won't get any evidence one way or the other by looking at the Erfworlders and trying to judge their humanity, since any differences we see between them and us could be caused by the world they live in. In order to get real evidence we need to compare them to Parson, since we know Parson is human and Parson lives in the same world. For example, Parson's stats are invisible to Erfworlders even though they can see each other's stats. And of course Parson can't see stats or hex boundaries the way that Erfworlders can. Also, Erfworlders don't bleed (according to Word of the Titans 4047518) and Parson still does bleed even now that he's in Erfworld (according to Summer Update 25).

So Erfworlders act and think like humans in every way that's really important, but they clearly are not the same as Parson, so they're not exactly human in the way that Parson is human. Perhaps we should think of them as a different species of human, like neanderthals, except more magical.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:56 am

Move along, nothing to see here.
Last edited by Jabberwocky on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby SteveMB » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:41 am

jkosta wrote:
0beron wrote:I'm a bit disappointed Paron isn't asking more pointed questions about Charlie and the Great Minds like SreveMB points out.....however, he does need to establish how much he can trust her first. He knows what he's doing, so there is a pecking order to the questions he plans to ask.


It's not just that. It's that he can't find out anything useful from her about Charlie that he won't from talking to the GMs.


His misgivings notwithstanding, his familiarity with Maggie means that he can almost certainly trust her (if only in the sense of "getting a sense of whether or not she's trying to mislead him") more than he can trust the GMs (who he's barely met).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby CorrTerek » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:12 am

Tonot wrote:I guess you have encountered humans from social systems, belief systems other than the ones you were raised in?.

Care to tell me that your emotional and social responses were always identical to theirs, regardless of the differences in your up-bringing?.

"Maggie smiled at him, her eyes crinkling. "What an utterly alien thing to think. But also, utterly charming."

""Okay well...it doesn't work like that where I'm from," said Parson uncomfortably."

How many ways does one have to make the same point?. I accept they are people. You must accept they are not human people. How is a lone human people going to be especially vulnerable to the non-human people he is in the middle of?.


See, I don't get what the point of quoting that bit was. You're making the argument that they're not human, and I guess you're quoting that to make a point about how alien their thought processes are.

But...I'm sure that there are people across the globe whose cultures, ideas, and beliefs are completely alien to me. I've met some even within my own country. If I'm understanding your logic correctly, that would make them not human?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Lipkin » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:30 pm

I would argue that the people of Erf are the same genus as the people of Stupidworld, but are a different species. They are not homo sapien, but they do belong to the homo group.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby bladestorm » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:01 pm

CorrTerek wrote:
No one in particular wrote:I have nothing insightful to add re: plot development, character development or greater understanding of he mechanics of Erfworld.

BUT

I will say this sounds like some grade-A shipping bait. Can we see some Parson/Maggie fanart soon? Maybe Maggie & Ace fighting over him? :D


Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. She's barely even trying to be subtle now. :lol:

At least it did not end with her reaching for Parson's belt, or saying something about proving she is his, entirely. this almost queues up another image of their feet, with piles of cloth nearby.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby bladestorm » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Lipkin wrote:I would argue that the people of Erf are the same genus as the people of Stupidworld, but are a different species. They are not homo sapien, but they do belong to the homo group.

Maybe a different breed? A terrier and a hound are both of the same species, but vastly different in build, temperament, appearance, behavior triggers, and capabilities.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Zeku » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:29 pm

Maggie wasn't even willing to verbalize her loyalty until she heard that Charlie was getting his own private battlefield execution.

If there's an emotional aspect to her loyalty, it's based on the worship of power. It's appropriate that she is behaving in a girly manner, because power-lust is intimately tied to sexuality. It's not romance, It's just what Maggie wants.

I didn't read the bickering posts, but I'm very hesitant to describe Erfworlders as normal people, and I'm also hesitant to assume that they have a full range of loyalty like stupidworlders. The idea of popping, instant healing, and all the turn rules of Erfworld heavily implies that they are a different type of entity, even if their thoughts are nearly identical.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Lipkin » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:36 pm

bladestorm wrote:
Lipkin wrote:I would argue that the people of Erf are the same genus as the people of Stupidworld, but are a different species. They are not homo sapien, but they do belong to the homo group.

Maybe a different breed? A terrier and a hound are both of the same species, but vastly different in build, temperament, appearance, behavior triggers, and capabilities.

Is there a difference between breed and race beyond that one pertains to animals, and one pertains to humans? Honest question.

Erfworlders do not bleed, and do not appear to be capable of biological reproduction. Parson still bleeds, and theoretically could still reproduce given a suitable partner. This seems like a difference that is bigger than merely being different models of the same creature.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Lipkin » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:49 pm

Zeku wrote:Maggie wasn't even willing to verbalize her loyalty until she heard that Charlie was getting his own private battlefield execution.

If there's an emotional aspect to her loyalty, it's based on the worship of power. It's appropriate that she is behaving in a girly manner, because power-lust is intimately tied to sexuality. It's not romance, It's just what Maggie wants.

I didn't read the bickering posts, but I'm very hesitant to describe Erfworlders as normal people, and I'm also hesitant to assume that they have a full range of loyalty like stupidworlders. The idea of popping, instant healing, and all the turn rules of Erfworld heavily implies that they are a different type of entity, even if their thoughts are nearly identical.

I don't think it's power lust. Maggie trusts Parson. She was loyal to the Minds before he came on the scene, and probably followed their instructions without question. She trusted they had the right plans in mind. That's why she warned the Thinkamancers of Parson's coming. But then the Great Minds very nearly screwed up everything. I think her swearing her loyalty after checking on Parson's plans for Charlie was to confirm there was no conflict in her loyalties. As long as Parson is planning on killing Charlie, she'll now follow his plans instead of the demands of the Great Minds. If the Great Minds don't approve of Parson's methods, they screw off.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby Lawence of Awabia » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:13 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Tonot wrote:Just being specific, factual, they are not humans, you know.
We can't be sure of that. How much of what's different about them comes from their nature, and how much comes from their world? Erfworld is very different from Stupidworld, including a lot of magic and amazing features, including the popping of people, but just because the people are popped doesn't mean they aren't fully human once the magic has done its work. They certainly seem human.

We won't get any evidence one way or the other by looking at the Erfworlders and trying to judge their humanity, since any differences we see between them and us could be caused by the world they live in. In order to get real evidence we need to compare them to Parson, since we know Parson is human and Parson lives in the same world. For example, Parson's stats are invisible to Erfworlders even though they can see each other's stats. And of course Parson can't see stats or hex boundaries the way that Erfworlders can. Also, Erfworlders don't bleed (according to Word of the Titans 4047518) and Parson still does bleed even now that he's in Erfworld (according to Summer Update 25).

So Erfworlders act and think like humans in every way that's really important, but they clearly are not the same as Parson, so they're not exactly human in the way that Parson is human. Perhaps we should think of them as a different species of human, like neanderthals, except more magical.


Seconding this, and similar ideas in subsequent posts. In addition to no biological reproduction and no bleeding, they are 3-4 feet tall and have empty, button-hole dots for eyes. They are clearly not "human".

Are they "people", with genuine feelings and emotions? My pet theory is, no, they're not. They are simulacra, created to mimic real people, but they are no more real than a highly advanced AI routine in a computer game. They've passed Parson's personal Turing Test so far, but I bet this will be among the big reveals when Parson finally confronts Charlie face-to-face. "There's no one else here, kid. It's just you and me, and has been all along...".

Again, this is personal, pet theorycrafting here. No real evidence to support it. But wouldn't it be interesting?
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:19 pm

Lawence of Awabia wrote:"There's no one else here, kid. It's just you and me, and has been all along...".
Again, this is personal, pet theorycrafting here. No real evidence to support it. But wouldn't it be interesting?

Well, Judy too I would bet was real. Doesn't detract from your theory, but just figured you had forgotten her.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:31 pm

Using "They don't have parents or children" as a criteria for not being human is horrible. We can clone creatures, and cloning a human would probably already have occurred if it wasn't considered unethical. A cloned creature doesn't have a parent. Test tubes and artificial wombs are also not out of the realm of possibility, so we're probably only a 100 years or so from having humans who don't have "parents". Throw in arbitrary genetic manipulation, and they could have no DNA inherited from any 2 distinct people. Sterile individuals cannot have children; no one would consider them to be inhuman. Saying that having pupil-less eyes makes them not human is also false. Humans are born entirely without eyes, and many Erfworlders have pupils.

Asserting that their relationships are "similar" but not "the same" as a criteria for rendering them inhuman can also be used to classify lots of Stupidworld humans as inhuman. Of course, that doesn't even stop people in our world from doing so. (Who you love shouldn't EVER allow others to treat you as less than human.)

The fact that Parson is subject to the rules of Erfworld (wounds healing at the start of each turn, enforced loyalty, etc.) can be interpreted as evidence that Erfworlders ARE human. We know Parson is, so Erfworld mechanics can be applied to humans. It's possible that the Summon Perfect Warlord spell duplicates all of these features for Parson specifically, but it's more likely in my mind that the mechanisms just exist for the entire population, and Parson, as a human like many other Erfworlders, simply gets these rules applied by default.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby No one in particular » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:40 pm

Lawence of Awabia wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
Tonot wrote:Just being specific, factual, they are not humans, you know.
We can't be sure of that. How much of what's different about them comes from their nature, and how much comes from their world? Erfworld is very different from Stupidworld, including a lot of magic and amazing features, including the popping of people, but just because the people are popped doesn't mean they aren't fully human once the magic has done its work. They certainly seem human.

We won't get any evidence one way or the other by looking at the Erfworlders and trying to judge their humanity, since any differences we see between them and us could be caused by the world they live in. In order to get real evidence we need to compare them to Parson, since we know Parson is human and Parson lives in the same world. For example, Parson's stats are invisible to Erfworlders even though they can see each other's stats. And of course Parson can't see stats or hex boundaries the way that Erfworlders can. Also, Erfworlders don't bleed (according to Word of the Titans 4047518) and Parson still does bleed even now that he's in Erfworld (according to Summer Update 25).

So Erfworlders act and think like humans in every way that's really important, but they clearly are not the same as Parson, so they're not exactly human in the way that Parson is human. Perhaps we should think of them as a different species of human, like neanderthals, except more magical.


Seconding this, and similar ideas in subsequent posts. In addition to no biological reproduction and no bleeding, they are 3-4 feet tall and have empty, button-hole dots for eyes. They are clearly not "human".

Are they "people", with genuine feelings and emotions? My pet theory is, no, they're not. They are simulacra, created to mimic real people, but they are no more real than a highly advanced AI routine in a computer game. They've passed Parson's personal Turing Test so far, but I bet this will be among the big reveals when Parson finally confronts Charlie face-to-face. "There's no one else here, kid. It's just you and me, and has been all along...".

Again, this is personal, pet theorycrafting here. No real evidence to support it. But wouldn't it be interesting?

Ooh, how about the reverse? That the magic of Erfworld doesn't simulate a personality for a bunch of blank slates, but suppresses that mind & self they'd otherwise have?

  • We know that even the lowliest stabber's have some personality. (Wrigley, Mary Sagittari).
  • We also know that in Erfworld, the ability to express oneself and to take independent action are inseparably tied to authority. (Leadership is a quantifiable Special, unled stacks auto-attack (thus lacking free will), Rulers are the only units NOT beholden to someone higher up the hierarchy)
  • We've seen that it's possible to go from one extreme to the other (Stanley popped as a Piker before making his way up to Overlord)

It could be that as there's less and less people capable of giving you orders, the world stops inhibiting the thing that would naturally make you resist those orders... a sense of individuality.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 06 – Parson and Maggie Discuss Matters

Postby drachefly » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:07 pm

Lawence of Awabia wrote:Are they "people", with genuine feelings and emotions? My pet theory is, no, they're not. They are simulacra, created to mimic real people, but they are no more real than a highly advanced AI routine in a computer game. They've passed Parson's personal Turing Test so far, but I bet this will be among the big reveals when Parson finally confronts Charlie face-to-face. "There's no one else here, kid. It's just you and me, and has been all along...".

Again, this is personal, pet theorycrafting here. No real evidence to support it. But wouldn't it be interesting?


This would undermine the entire story. I would almost bet that Charlie thinks so, but is incorrect.
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