There is no point my going through and pointing out where many of you deliberately or unknowingly have missed my point, and/or put words in my mouth.
I will just point out I said categorically that I accept that they "are people", I said specifically
" I accept they seem to have a sort of limited self-awareness, and maybe something like our illusion of free will too, and wasn't saying that they have no "human" feelings ".
Anyway, nice to see that the majority of posters are adherents to David Brin's theory of the Western Worlds Inclusiveness being its Superiority. Just a being, being something a little like humans, blinds you all to their utter non-humanness, the sheer impossibility of them being human, and makes you grumpy with someone who gently points it out.
( by the way, I also suffer from this feeling that merely communicating makes any being a "people" and, further, our self respect makes it vital we offer all "people" the rights and obligations of being "Human" too, if they like to join the family. It won't actually make them human, but it will be nice of us to offer.
However, Dante, really now, Banhammer didn't "fall in love" with Olive, she used one of the inhuman Erf-world mechanisms against him, and so, yeah, "Love" triumphed over "Duty and Loyalty" for a certain (inhuman) value of the three things.
And Lilwik, yes, actually being brought into existence, and fuelled and controlled by magic pretty much seems to be a working definition of "not human". I accept that we can think of them as a sort of "human" alright, unfortunately it is a "Magical Simulacrum of a Human, with many differences".
See, I don't get what the point of quoting that bit was. You're making the argument that they're not human, and I guess you're quoting that to make a point about how alien their thought processes are.
But...I'm sure that there are people across the globe whose cultures, ideas, and beliefs are completely alien to me. I've met some even within my own country. If I'm understanding your logic correctly, that would make them not human?
No, you got my meaning reversed there, maybe because you seem to have accidentally only quoted half the thought, I understand why you did I guess, it was a long thought. My point started there with this
"And specifically to what I was asking, Parson has spent his entire life as a ( assuming we nerds still qualify) human, in human company, human society. Now his company, society, is these non-human, randomly-controlled-often people
I went on to make the point that ftl knew in his own experience of how even one of the human cultures
can be so different as to be impossible for a stranger to live safely in. And that by analogy I was saying ftl also knew perfectly well my point about Parson being vulnerable in particular ways to the alien culture he is in now.
Jabberwocky, yeah, I also hate that conversation about Neurochemistry and free will, mostly because it is so depressing for anyone who enters it thinking Free Will is an obvious given. If you do track me down to eat me, let's just say we did and not?.
Jabberwocky wrote:And speaking of biology. Is Parson biologically human anymore? Obviously his summoning changed some things. Will he age? If a Dwagon eats his arm, will it grow back at the start of turn? Will his corpse rot? Can he make babies with Maggie? Can he make babies with ACE? Does he even have DNA anymore or some kind of Erfworld equivalent? After all, he eats their food just fine. And their food would be designed for them. Is his Stupidworld flesh slowly being replaced by Erfworld flesh?
Very good questions, I like the way you think. I also want to add, can he actually be croaked?.
Anyway it is such a good example of what I was saying when you say "Can he make babies with Maggie? Can he make babies with ACE?"
VERY GOOD, I thank you for the help.
Can Parsons humanity ( his ability to make babies ) trump Maggies in-humanity ( Her utter inability, nothing to do with fertility, ABSOLUTELY INHERENT inability to make babies ) and allow them, together , to make babies.
If you guys can shut your minds that hard, that firmly, that this seems likely, then, well, why shouldn't he
also trump ACEs inabilities plural, to make babies. Man, I should let you argue my side of this, Jabberwocky, you do it so well!.