Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby twhitt » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:47 am

Lipkin wrote:With Charlie's connections. Charlie can be the Thinkamancer of the link, and one of the casters of Unaroyal that swore only to serve royal sides was a Findamancer. That leaves only the need for a Predictamancer. If it's fated to be, who says they won't help?

And why would Charlie do this? What's in it for him, to give a perfect warlord to a side that cannot pay him? I agree that he may be contemplating some of the upsides of having a perfect warlord around; at one point, he wanted Parson. But why give one to Jetstone?

Shai_hulud wrote:
twhitt wrote:I find it unlikely that Jetstone can summon another Perfect Warlord. The Great Minds won't be doing another linkup for that purpose, since they've got what they want.
The Great Minds do not actually have a monopoly on linking.

No, they do not, and I did not claim they do. I said only that they won't assist, so JS would have to find someone who will.

Shai_hulud wrote:Charlie is afraid of "fated" warlords. Not "random warlord who is able to beat parson in a fight" warlords.

To quote myself, "All they really have access to is Charlie, possibly, and considering the other Perfect Warlord is out to kill him I can see why he might not be so keen to give a second one to a weakly-aligned side." The point is that Charlie has no specific reason to assist Jetstone. If he were to cast the spell - and I don't claim he couldn't - why would it be for Jetstone? The motive simply isn't there. The region is destabilizing due to Parson, and Charlie's interest is to see Parson eliminated in order to return to business as usual. How does summoning a perfect warlord and giving it to Jetstone help him to return to the status quo he desires?

The majority of known thinkamancers are out, because they've all bet on Parson. We've never been 100% clear on the other two disciplines in the link, as Wanda specifically named Predictamancy, Lookamancy and Findamancy as having been involved. The predictamancers have no known reason to assist; in fact, it seems counter to what predictions they've already made. Findamancers and Lookamancers are big unknowns; not a single one has appeared in the story recently, not a single one is known to associate with Jetstone, and the only one you think may have is probably one who swore not to work with Charlie anyway.

Shai_hulud wrote:They need a Lookamancer, not a Predictamancer. Trem doesn't need a "Perfect" warlord who will fulfill 4 predictions, he just needs one who can fight Parson. His requirements are less strict than the spell that summoned Parson. Hell, Charlie probably has a list at least four people long already. ;)

Again, we do not know precisely which disciplines are required. To quote Wanda, "the Findamancers and Predictamancers have forged a spell together." Book 1, page 5. Later, she calls it a "Findamancy/Lookamancy thing." Book 1, page 36. The most coherent argument I can manage is that the linkup is Thinkamancer-Findamancer-Predictamancer, while casting the spell requires the scroll be used by a Lookamancer or someone capable of it; Wanda can do this, but she's not a Findamancer and thus can't change the parameters too much. Book 1, page 17. Jetstone has not a single one of these disciplines available, nor money to hire them. At best, they might get Charlie as the Thinkamancer, but why would he do that?

All of this doesn't mean that it's impossible for the SPW spell to be recast. Charlie knows the particulars, has the cash, and a deep stable of connections with various casters. That's not what you guys are suggesting, though, is it? You're suggesting he will do this for Jetstone. Jetstone, who has no money. Jetstone, who has no resources of their own to put toward the cast. Jetstone, who has no connections.

I simply don't see that happening.
twhitt
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:03 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby mimhoff » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:50 am

Seventeen rulers in the equivalent of 219 years seems normal for a Stupidworld kingdom, but seems a lot for Erfworld.

Is it usual for Kings to lead their sides in battle and risk croaking? I guess if you have already popped an heir then the consequences for the side aren't that bad.
mimhoff
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:25 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lipkin » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:14 am

1. He would give such a warlord to a different side because it would remove said warlord from direct contact with Charlie. Charlie is paranoid, and wants no direct contact with anyone but Archons, and even then only a handful.
2. "Perfect" is a relative term. The parameters of the spell could be changed to be the perfect counter to Parson, rather than the perfect warlord period. "I want someone who knows how Lord Hamster thinks. Someone who will be able to give us information upon him, and knows the best way to remove him from the field."
User avatar
Lipkin
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Denar » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:02 am

I swear I remember Rob saying that Parson's friends are going to be involved at some stage... This with Tramenis needing an "unorthodox" warlord - someone who would know how Parson's approach to gaming works, and would have the best chance of countering it...
Denar
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Oberon » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:13 am

Sixty wrote:Well, if it wasn't for Jetstone horribly lacking in funds at the moment I'd say this seems like a tease that they might also snag someone from Stupidworld.
I saw it as more of an indication that Tram was going to be a warrior king, similar to Jillian. "I know I must command it.

===

Hey, don't fret for all those named characters of Jetstone! What everyone seems to be missing is the fact that, just like Anson, many of them are still very much...alive? Moving around, at least. :lol:

MadZuri wrote:Book 1 page 128: Ansom leads the entire RCC in a dance fight. Direct evidence that allies receive leadership bonuses from the chief warlord of the alliance.
That was not a dance fight! Jetstone units cannot dance fight! It was an abomination second only to (*Ptui!*) Kingworld.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
Oberon
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:20 am

twhitt wrote:And why would Charlie do this? What's in it for him, to give a perfect warlord to a side that cannot pay him? I agree that he may be contemplating some of the upsides of having a perfect warlord around; at one point, he wanted Parson. But why give one to Jetstone?

To prop up a side that actually has a chance of beating Parson? Parson is currently planning on killing him. He could summon one for himself, but Tram probably doesn't want to have Charlie provide all his strats. If Parson isn't stopped soon he will be unbeatable. The more time Parson has to come up and implement tricks like the dragon taming relay, or his plan to make ration popping cities the worse things get.

Plus this is Charlie's MO. Prop up a puppet to do his dirty work for him. See Jillian and FAQ. I think the question we should ask is: why wouldn't he give one to Jetstone? It costs him a the money to hire a couple casters and a turn of linking. Its less than he spent on his plan to stop GK already. And now he has more reason to want to stop GK.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lilwik » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:44 am

Lamech wrote:It costs him a the money to hire a couple casters and a turn of linking. Its less than he spent on his plan to stop GK already.
That makes it sound so trivial! Don't forget that Parson's summoning spell cost 500,000 shmuckers, and clearly this sort of spell isn't being used every day. I expect that it requires very high level casters and several turns worth of work to make it happen. It might even be that Charlie has enough enemies in the Magic Kingdom that he doesn't have access to casters with high enough levels to make it happen. The very high level casters have all been around long enough to get to know Charlie, plus we've seen quite a few Predictamancers working against Charlie. If the Hocus Pocus community is against him, then Charlie might have a hard time finding a high level Findamancer willing to work for a practical price.
Lilwik
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:34 am

Lilwik wrote:
Lamech wrote:It costs him a the money to hire a couple casters and a turn of linking. Its less than he spent on his plan to stop GK already.
That makes it sound so trivial! Don't forget that Parson's summoning spell cost 500,000 shmuckers, and clearly this sort of spell isn't being used every day. I expect that it requires very high level casters and several turns worth of work to make it happen. It might even be that Charlie has enough enemies in the Magic Kingdom that he doesn't have access to casters with high enough levels to make it happen. The very high level casters have all been around long enough to get to know Charlie, plus we've seen quite a few Predictamancers working against Charlie. If the Hocus Pocus community is against him, then Charlie might have a hard time finding a high level Findamancer willing to work for a practical price.

Actually the opportunity cost of the link up is probably the biggest cost. Charlie's upkeep is what half a million? And most of his cash comes from the dish? And if we assume he can actually profit off of the archons...
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lipkin » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:46 am

There is already a Findamancer with a grudge against Parson and GK. Spenser, formerly of Unaroyal. His fellows Jojo and Vanna have already been seen working for Charlie, no reason to assume he and Bowie are not as well.
User avatar
Lipkin
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Free Radical » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:29 pm

Lipkin wrote:There is already a Findamancer with a grudge against Parson and GK. Spenser, formerly of Unaroyal. His fellows Jojo and Vanna have already been seen working for Charlie, no reason to assume he and Bowie are not as well.

When Charlie was the leader of El-EfBaum, he had a Lookamancer and a Findamancer, who in some combination with Haffaton's Predictamancer and Thinkamancer summoned Judy Gale.

It seems plausible that when the archons carried him away to safety, they could have taken his casters too. Charlie might not keep any casters at Charlescomm, but he might have released them as free casters to the magic kingdom (with something like the agreement offered to FAQ, maybe?).

That would mean that the Findamancer and Lookamancer who were involved in summoning Judy Gale could still be alive and reasonably well-disposed to Charlie. Since he has the Arkendish and the exact combination of Lookamancy/Findamancy/Predictamancy/Thinkamancy necessary seems unknown, that might be all he requires.
Free Radical
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:51 pm

It seems like he would want to ditch the predictamancy component if the speculation about him fighting fate is true. Maybe even replace it with his carnymancy. Asking fate "Hey who should I summon" when you want to fight fate? Not a good idea.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:03 pm

Careful reading of discussion about the two summoning spells suggests that the actual spell itself is fashioned by using Look/Think/Find in a link. Predictamancy seems to offer a supporting role, perhaps only telling the actors "hey, this spell is your only chance, so get crafting"
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:58 pm

The great minds mentioned something about how the Predictamancers shouldn't have been able to keep Parson being a caster secret in a link, but it wasn't said if they (the Predictamancers) were in the link themselves. So it is still ambiguous. Some sort of Predictamancy link might be required, but it's not exactly said if they need to be linked to anything else, or if maybe they wrote part of the scroll and then were cut out of the link to make room for another caster, or maybe nothing at all. But that's still for the summon perfect warlord spell, not the summon gamer girl from Ohio spell.
Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby The Pink Warlord » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:09 pm

So, I am curious:

If you were in Trammenis's position what would you do?

It's a lot like the position Gobwin Knob was in at the start of book one.

And it's always an interesting intellectual exercise to wonder about such things.
The Pink Warlord
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:12 pm

Shai_hulud
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:23 pm

The Pink Warlord wrote:If you were in Trammenis's position what would you do?

The only thing I could do. Cast summon perfect thermonuclear bomb! Well more like Summon Functional and Easy to Use Thermonuclear Bomb. Well have Charlie cast it for me. After extracting a unbreakable contract not to abuse the secret knowledge I am about to give him. Also agreement for support if I assassinate Parson. Then I would nuke the GMTA and Parson.

BAM! It only requires an inane level OOC knowledge to pull off.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Allsardane » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:31 pm

I'm prone to agree with (whichever people said it first)- King Tram needs a dynamic warlord and one may be available very shortly- His brother. This guy will have first believed in the Royal Mandate and saw what happened, will have then believed in the Toolist mandate and saw what happened, and by being turned back into the land of not worshiping the wielder of the pliers he will perhaps now believe that none of the previous choices were completely right. He isn't exactly a lateral thinker, but he has had lateral thinking applied against him multiple times and can at least respect the concept.

Tram doesn't need a lateral thinker because he himself is one. He needs a strong warlord with a huge bonus who is at least willing to support him on his (according to conservative traditionalists) insane tactics.

The real question for me in this matter is "what does Tram have to offer in exchange for getting his brother back?". Not money. Probably not a city. One of his casters?

If I were Tram, first thing I would do? Read the entire freaking book!
Allsardane
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:35 pm

Allsardane wrote:The real question for me in this matter is "what does Tram have to offer in exchange for getting his brother back?". Not money. Probably not a city. One of his casters?
He doesn't have to offer anything, he just needs for Ansom to turn. This wouldn't be a willing "deal" with GK, it'd be a steal. If either Jillian or Trem can get Ansom on their respective sides, then problem solved, no trade with GK needed.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby AbuDhabi » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Do Erfworlders die of old age?
AbuDhabi
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:02 am

Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:44 pm

AbuDhabi wrote:Do Erfworlders die of old age?
Almost definitely not. It's never been stated that they don't outright....but we've never seen it happen, and we also see units look "old" by stupidworld standards irrespective of their actual ages, and also seen them gradually appear "younger" (Wanda and Maggie, perhaps even Jack a bit arguably). So the safe answer is no they don't...or if they do, the definition of "old age" is far longer than the 100 neighborhood for humans.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests