Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby Estelindis » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:33 am

Lipkin wrote:If Sizemore betrays Parson, he's already lost. Not because Parson would survive, or punish him, which he probably would, but because he'd be betraying his own peaceful ideals. As soon as he wishes Parson dead, he's lost himself.

I think that's actually precisely one of the reasons why Sizemore is so miserable. He feels trapped and doesn't see any way out that doesn't also betray his ideals.

This comic has investigated pacifism a fair bit, via Sizemore, the prequel focusing on FAQ, etc. In some cases, the power of peace can be twisted to deprive others of their freedom (e.g. Olive Branch and Jillian). However, the power of war seems to be used to deprive others of their freedom all the time. I'm not sure if Rob is trying to push for one perspective or another when it comes to pacifism. It seems to me like he's mostly trying to get people to think rather than necessarily take sides.
User avatar
Estelindis
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:17 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby noname_hero » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:46 am

I guess we can still hope that Sizemore is an intelligent and strong-willed guy and I definitely understand his thoughts at the moment. Parson just destroyed his status, shattered his illusions, endangered his friends, made him confront the violent nature of Erfworld and brought war to a place many convinced themselves was free of it. There's nothing surprising about the way Sizemore feels right now.

But we've seen Sizemore grow before. We've seen him understand new things, new conceptr, new facts. Maybe he *will* understand that the truth about the Magic Kindom was not what he thought it to be.

Some people here have said that Parson is ruthless. Maybe he is. And maybe he is simply capable of performing ruthlessly when he perceives a need for it. Maybe he has no natural inclination to act ruthlessly but he's capable of accepting reality and making tough choices. He is a guy who got thrown into a desperate fight for survival, in a world that has limited free will and whose very laws push people towards conflict. He has never had time and opportunity to create peace that'd have a reasonable chance of lasting. He is a stranger guy in a world full of people eager to wage war. But if he becomes a hero, if he shows that he is capable and willing to fight for lasting and just peace... Yes, I do believe Sizemore can be healed. Maybe he will become a traitor. But he doesn't have to be, at least not yet.
noname_hero
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby Lipkin » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:13 am

Fjord wrote:
Lipkin wrote: Heavy speculation on my part, sure. But I have a hard time seeing any of the carnies being qualified.


There are strong inclinations that some Carnies might be, like JoJo (who called for an enforcement council)
That however, is still just speculation as we have never heard him being mentioned nor called a Qualified, and he might just be a random caster calling for Qualified to assemble an enforcement council

My bet.
User avatar
Lipkin
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 am

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 am

Sizemore is just unfathomably selfish.

At the start of book 1, he is flaking out with Janis while the soldiers of GK (living men and gobwins, not just uncroaked) are out fighting to keep his side alive. He gets to sit in the relative safety of GK and the MK, whining about having to make golems (which seems to be one of the primary skill of his specialty), while other members of his side (including ALL the other GK casters) have to risk their lives to preserve the side (Wanda in the field, the Eyemancers via the dangerous tri-link)

By the end of book 1, Charlie, Jillian, et al have made multiple attempts at nothing short of the total destruction of GK and all its units using what some may consider underhanded tactics, and Sizemore cries about having to protect his city.

In book 2, multiple attempts are made on the life of Parson, Sizemore's friend, countryman and Chief Warlord, and Sizemore is upset because Parson is trying to defend himself and his side in the best way possible.

Sizemore has been completely spoiled by having the security of the MK as a retreat from the real world. He fancies himself a pacifist, but all he really cares about is preserving his own way of life.

Sizemore started as an interesting character, now he's just annoying and emo.
GWvsJohn
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:52 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby crex90 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:19 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:Sizemore has been completely spoiled by having the security of the MK as a retreat from the real world. He fancies himself a pacifist, but all he really cares about is preserving his own way of life.


Sizemore wants peace, and nothing more. I think he always secretly expected GK to fall, and for him to be free of all this "sides" business for good, freeing him up to live in the MK forever in the (relatively more) peaceful society of his dreams.

Now that dream is shattered. He will always be on a "side", even here in the MK, and he doesn't know what to do with himself. I find him an interesting character, but he is also a tragic character. He will either learn that you need to win the war in order to impose lasting peace, which will leave him unable to enjoy it due to the burden of guilt he'll carry, or grow so depressed that he loses himself to despondence.

Parson will eventually figure out the endgame. In war games like this, there's only peace once the entire map is the same color.
"You have to be a bit of a liar to tell a story the right way." - Patrick Rothfuss, The Name of the Wind
"All the stories are fictions. What matters is which fiction you believe." - Orson Scott Card, Children of the Mind
User avatar
crex90
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:23 pm

He wants peace for himself. He doesn't give a crap (pun intended) about anyone else.
GWvsJohn
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:52 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 pm

I disagree. He wants peace for everyone else, he just wasn't (and probably still isn't) entirely willing to what may be neccessary to bring it about. And in some ways he might not be all that capable of helping anyway. At the start of book 1, there was nothing more he could be doing to help.

I suspect he had a very niave view for how peace could come about. Failing to recognize that the MK is just as much a part of war as everything else, he no doubt hoped that the 'peace' of the MK would spread to the rest of the world. Now the exact opposite has happened, so in his niave mind, the only bastion of peace has just been destroyed. He is a Dirtamancer, trying to understand Flower Power...so basically what he thinks just happened is that Parson burned the seeds Sizemore hoped would grow into peace everywhere. He's not selfish...he's niave and perhaps a bit complacant/lazy.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:02 pm

I disagree with your disagreement :) He just wants to run away and hide with Janis, but mean old Parson won't let him, so he pouts. If he truly desired peace for everyone, wouldn't he do something more along the lines of, "Hey Parson, you know Janis? She's a really powerful caster and expert on peace. Maybe we could learn something from her. Why don't I bring her over here so you two can chat?"
GWvsJohn
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:52 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Because he's hurt/bitter, and deluded right now. If he was actually smart enough to think of that (which I'm not sure he is...his heart is in the right place but he's not an extraordinarily bright bulb), what reason does he have to think Parson would listen or that he would help? Sizemore is timid by nature so offering new ideas is a bit out of his comofrt zone to begin with, let alone when the person he's trying to convince has just commited what he views as a grave "sin". Also consider the fact that his confidence in Janis may be shaken as well. She was part of this plan, and look how it's turned out? That may be why he wanted to speak with her, because he's concerned she made a mistake.

I'm definitely not saying Sizemore is a flawless saint...he's just a weak guy with his heart in the right place but a sadly lacking perspective to support that feeling.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby CorrTerek » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:41 pm

At least they're talking about it. Sort of. I was almost worried Parson wouldn't notice anything was wrong until it was too late.
Image
CorrTerek
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:57 am

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:18 pm

Sizemore sad :cry:
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
User avatar
the_tick_rules
 
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby bladestorm » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:30 pm

And the Parson/Sizemore ship is starting to sink.

Maybe GK could hire Ohura for an extended contract to try to get Sizemore's head back into the game.
bladestorm
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby twhitt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:58 pm

I'm a bit curious what Parson would even make of Janis, given what he's just learned of Olive (I presume almost everything that we know). It would be natural to assume that Janis is similarly insidious and manipulative; what evidence could you really provide that she's not the same?

In light of what I know of flower power, I'd regard them as equally dangerous to my state of mind as any hostile thinkamancer or, for that matter, as a high-charisma, high-diplomacy D&D character.
twhitt
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:03 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:02 pm

bladestorm wrote:Maybe GK could hire Ohura for an extended contract to try to get Sizemore's head back into the game.
That would backfire REAL fast haha. It's been said Date-a-mancers never stay with a side for long because knowing the truth is painful. It's possible she would just tell Sizemore that Parson will never be the person he wanted Parson to be, and that their relationship cannot be repaired because they are so different.
twhitt wrote:I'm a bit curious what Parson would even make of Janis, given what he's just learned of Olive (I presume almost everything that we know).
I wouldn't be so sure. Only Jack is free to speak now, and he only knows what was shared at the Trial. Sure, that's a lot to damn Olive, but it lacks all the detail Wanda experienced in her Goodminton and Haffaton days.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby twhitt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:16 pm

0beron wrote:
twhitt wrote:I'm a bit curious what Parson would even make of Janis, given what he's just learned of Olive (I presume almost everything that we know).
I wouldn't be so sure. Only Jack is free to speak now, and he only knows what was shared at the Trial. Sure, that's a lot to damn Olive, but it lacks all the detail Wanda experienced in her Goodminton and Haffaton days.

I figured, perhaps without merit, that everything we know about Olive and Tommy, etc, was revealed at the trial. Wanda said “Her most serious acts include at least ten counts of commander-level fratricide (with others attempted). She also attempted both patricide and hericide. Beginning with Blair, she arranged or accomplished the croaking of eleven enemy rulers and at least two hundred warlords under false terms of parley, truce, or alliance, or via other dishonorable and perverse means. Among these were my brother Tommy, and my father Lord Firebaugh.” I assume that means she gave a pretty full account of that part to the jury, and we didn't see that happen because we already knew that part. It's possible Jack doesn't know much about the eleven enemy rulers and two hundred warlords killed by "false terms of parley, truce, or alliance;" at a minimum, though, he's heard that it happened.
twhitt
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:03 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:24 pm

Agreed, but the devil is in the details. The Trial testimony paints Olive as a nasty lady...but Wanda's full personal experience shows how terrible she REALLY is. Knowing that stuff would really lead Parson to distrust Florists...the Trial info on the other hand is probably only enough to make him cautious/guarded.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3152
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby twhitt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:42 pm

I further suppose it's possible that Jack scarcely mentioned Olive in his account. She is dead, after all, and we know that Jack's account didn't take all day to tell. You could get out all the details in the Wizard > Judy > Arkendish > Non-Disclosure-Agreement story and hit all the important highlights without skipping very much of significance to current events.
twhitt
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:03 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby Beeskee » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:17 pm

Poor Sizemore. :<

I bet Parson could turn around public opinion in the MK. And this conversation was a great big warning sign that he needs to do so. If Sizemore feels this way, chances are other casters do as well.

A big feast and a pinky swear promise to not wage war in the MK itself would be a good start. Even if people didn't believe the pinky swear (which seems to be a form of contract that he might not be able to easily break) I'm willing to bet covering everyone's upkeep for a few turns would go over well.


Edit: (I should finish reading the thread before posting lol) re Sizemore and peace: World peace wasn't ever a possibility in Erfworld, aka WARworld. Until Parson showed up. Sizemore hasn't realized this yet.
User avatar
Beeskee
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby Lamech » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:50 pm

The MK needs to institute defenses and farms if it wants to be neutral. Signamancy or something to seal the portals off from misuse. Massive Flower Power projects to stop engagements and provide upkeep without the outside world. Findamancers to summon harvestables. Luckamancy to transfer rolls from attackers to victims. Stuff like that.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Epilogue 23 - Parson and Sizemore

Postby twhitt » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:04 pm

Lamech wrote:The MK needs to institute defenses and farms if it wants to be neutral. Signamancy or something to seal the portals off from misuse. Massive Flower Power projects to stop engagements and provide upkeep without the outside world. Findamancers to summon harvestables. Luckamancy to transfer rolls from attackers to victims. Stuff like that.

And from the outside, all of this could look very much like war mobilization. Defensive fortifications, new supply lines, stockpiling resources and combat casting capability add up to some pretty scary stuff for anyone with free movement to your capital's garrison, day or night. 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions.'
twhitt
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:03 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests