Lord Crush – Part 3

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Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby balder » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:35 pm

New One is up.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby noname_hero » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:12 am

Firstpost! :D

Now that's out of my system - and this story arc *demands* mentions of Firstpost - let me begin with one of the speculations this installment is likely to spring. Stable alliances of more than three sides generally fall to outside influence? So what happens to three-sided alliances? Do two of the members gang up on the third one? Or is there some game mechanic that makes larger alliances more stable?

Is this a lesson Parson could put to good use, maybe as a part of the implied peace on Erf scenarios?
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Sixty » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:13 am

Despite how Jack was sometimes described as the fool, interesting to get a view of what an actual court fool is like. Seems they're allowed to get away with a bit more than one would think. Interesting!
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby BakaGrappler » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:31 am

Excellent chapter!

Just goes to show, it's usually the comedians that see a situation for what it really is. Perception is their method of survival.

noname_hero wrote:Firstpost! :D

Now that's out of my system - and this story arc *demands* mentions of Firstpost - let me begin with one of the speculations this installment is likely to spring. Stable alliances of more than three sides generally fall to outside influence? So what happens to three-sided alliances? Do two of the members gang up on the third one? Or is there some game mechanic that makes larger alliances more stable?

Is this a lesson Parson could put to good use, maybe as a part of the implied peace on Erf scenarios?


Ever heard of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? The creation of a stable field between three kingdoms is unnaturally hard. Should one of the kingdoms ever feel that being neutral in an argument is the way to go, one side will wage war on the other, either crushign them or being picked off when weakened by the neutral side. Then there is the "Teaming up" event, where two sides decide they've had enough of the third.

It's like a table. In order for it to truly be sturdy, you need 4 legs. That would make any kind of subversive action from within the alliance so, so much harder to carry out, because even if you got 1 other on your side, it would still be 2 vs 2.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby wih » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:11 am

BakaGrappler wrote:It's like a table. In order for it to truly be sturdy, you need 4 legs. That would make any kind of subversive action from within the alliance so, so much harder to carry out, because even if you got 1 other on your side, it would still be 2 vs 2.


Don't three legged tables wobble far less than four legged tables?
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby BakaGrappler » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:04 am

wih wrote:
BakaGrappler wrote:It's like a table. In order for it to truly be sturdy, you need 4 legs. That would make any kind of subversive action from within the alliance so, so much harder to carry out, because even if you got 1 other on your side, it would still be 2 vs 2.


Don't three legged tables wobble far less than four legged tables?


Okay, then an AT-AT.

But either way, Crush is going to need to learn to do with Scropula what Wanda advised Parson to do with the Tool. "Let him have your way."
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby drachefly » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:21 am

wih wrote:Don't three legged tables wobble far less than four legged tables?


Geopolitically, the table is standing on jello. You're going to get wobble. What's more critical is non-criticality of any one leg.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby 0beron » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:53 am

Iiiiiinteresting!

Got to learn some cool, more subtle mechanics from this one.
  • You don't have to be a Fool in order to be a "fool".
  • Courtiers aren't Commanders, yet they have Duty.
  • Courtiers' Duty is not as complex/maleable as Warlords' and Casters'.
  • Certain roles/titles in the Court influence what a unit may do. Is this because of a universal mechanic about theses specific roles, or because a Ruler's Will allows these rules to be created for the side, and many sides simply follow suit because it becomes convention or seems like a good idea?
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Falcon X » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:02 pm

Now, a few observances:
- This whole alliance of sides and Bullyport seems inconsequential. They are not a world power and there is no reason for the Titans to keep them alive. But they have purpose, or we wouldn't be reading of them. The only thing I can think of is that they give us ONE BIG THING before they all kill each other. It could be knowledge, magic, the sole survivor, a weapon, a book, or something else that Parson or a Royal picks up.

The Lord Crush saga will produce SOMETHING that Lord Parson will use. What, is the question. A few possibilities:
- Crush will create plans that will absolutely fail here. However, when Parson learns of it, likely through a book popped by fate, he will learn the key to his own victory.
- Crush will somehow create an ultimate weapon. Notably, a weapon of PEACE, along the line of "A war to break all war", or the story of Olive.
- Something big and unexpected happens, and a major link to Stupidworld is found.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Mikalyaran » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:31 pm

Falcon X wrote:Now, a few observances:
- This whole alliance of sides and Bullyport seems inconsequential. They are not a world power and there is no reason for the Titans to keep them alive. But they have purpose, or we wouldn't be reading of them. The only thing I can think of is that they give us ONE BIG THING before they all kill each other. It could be knowledge, magic, the sole survivor, a weapon, a book, or something else that Parson or a Royal picks up.

The Lord Crush saga will produce SOMETHING that Lord Parson will use. What, is the question. A few possibilities:
- Crush will create plans that will absolutely fail here. However, when Parson learns of it, likely through a book popped by fate, he will learn the key to his own victory.
- Crush will somehow create an ultimate weapon. Notably, a weapon of PEACE, along the line of "A war to break all war", or the story of Olive.
- Something big and unexpected happens, and a major link to Stupidworld is found.


It would be interesting if Crush came up in the main comic somewhere along the line but I think the only purpose this needs to serve is fulfilling the Kickstarter rewards which prompted it and the others hopefully to follow.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Krennson » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:32 pm

noname_hero wrote:Firstpost! :D

Now that's out of my system - and this story arc *demands* mentions of Firstpost - let me begin with one of the speculations this installment is likely to spring. Stable alliances of more than three sides generally fall to outside influence? So what happens to three-sided alliances? Do two of the members gang up on the third one? Or is there some game mechanic that makes larger alliances more stable?

Is this a lesson Parson could put to good use, maybe as a part of the implied peace on Erf scenarios?


The way the basic alliance strategy was explained previously, every side in an alliance can afford to maintain 50% of 'standard' strength indefinitely, without conducting major external wars. It appears that If you want to maintain 100% standard army strength for very long, or even 120%, you either need a continuous source of income from foreign military victories, or else you need an arbitrarily large 'reserve' of cash, to allow you to fund a full-strength army for (x) weeks.

That means that in a three-sided alliance, with every nation at peace and "frozen" at 50% strength, one member of the alliance can theoretically defeat the other two, if he somehow saves a lot of money ahead of time, and then builds up very quickly, and very secretly.

At that point, the traitor side might be able to break alliance, with his army at 120% strength for the next few weeks, until he runs out of money, whereas his two former allies are still both at 50%.

So, with a lot of money, and the ability to expand quickly, such as with natural allies, one side can potentially defeat the other two. And doing it the other way around, with 2v1, is even easier and more reliable. and the third way to ruin the alliance is 1v1 over some stupid argument, with the third side refusing to get involved.

Alliances greater than 3 are much more stable internally, because you can afford to lose the combat support of one side, and still have a unified allied army at 150% standard strength in peacetime.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:42 pm

Falcon X wrote:Now, a few observances:
- This whole alliance of sides and Bullyport seems inconsequential. They are not a world power and there is no reason for the Titans to keep them alive. But they have purpose, or we wouldn't be reading of them.


Actually Lord Crush and his conflict may NOT have a purpose. Lord Crush is the first of four kickstarter reward stories; Each are supposed to be a stand-alone story inspired by top level donors. Their stories don't necessarily have to have anything to do with the main story. Granted, on the plus side we can atleast get a look at some of the other mechanics of erfworld through these stories, and it does help make the world feel bigger when we know there are other interesting things going on elsewhere in the world.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby 0beron » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:07 pm

Yeah, I think the only real "purpose" we can assume this story holds is to show us a few mechanics. It's the product of a Kickstarter reward, and may hold no relevance to the main plot. Course we could be proven wrong, but I'm thinking we shouldn't get our hopes up. Odds are this is actually happening at the same time as the Book 1-2, given that it would seem FAQ 1 has already fallen, so this must be geographically quite distant from GK and company.

Hell....interesting observation...Charlie isn't even here. You would think his intel would clue him in that there was a business opportunity here. So either there is indeed a "end" to his business district, or he just doesn't care.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:44 pm

0beron wrote:Hell....interesting observation...Charlie isn't even here. You would think his intel would clue him in that there was a business opportunity here. So either there is indeed a "end" to his business district, or he just doesn't care.


Well technically we don't know if he's there or not. This story is from Crush's perspective and as he pointed out, he has not been kept up to date with battle intel. He doesn't really know what's going on out there and thus wouldn't know if one of the sides decided to hire on mercs. And if Charlie is gonna be talking to anyone its gonna be the rulers and their acting commanders, not Crush; Only way Crush would hear about it is if Charlie was talking to Squashcourt AND the king opted to tell him. Its also possible that none of the sides in this conflict have felt they needed Charlie's services.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Krennson » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:26 pm

MonteCristo wrote:
0beron wrote:Hell....interesting observation...Charlie isn't even here. You would think his intel would clue him in that there was a business opportunity here. So either there is indeed a "end" to his business district, or he just doesn't care.


Well technically we don't know if he's there or not. This story is from Crush's perspective and as he pointed out, he has not been kept up to date with battle intel. He doesn't really know what's going on out there and thus wouldn't know if one of the sides decided to hire on mercs. And if Charlie is gonna be talking to anyone its gonna be the rulers and their acting commanders, not Crush; Only way Crush would hear about it is if Charlie was talking to Squashcourt AND the king opted to tell him. Its also possible that none of the sides in this conflict have felt they needed Charlie's services.


Charlie also does Telecom, and Crush hasn't been closely watched, or mind-jailed by a thinkamancer. In theory, if Charlie DID exist as a mercenary company at the moment, Crush could call Charlie, pay a thinkagram charge, and inform his queen of everything he knows about the upcoming treachery.

The more we learn about libraries, the more I wonder what Charlie's interests in libraries would be. theoretically, Charlie could hire a signamancer, link with him, and then do exactly the kinds of research Crush is currently doing by hand, sorting through libraries.

Then Charlie could start publishing books on the subjects... "Charlie's guide to historic multi-lateral alliances" "Charlie's guide to Island Sides". "Charlie's guide to courtier strategy"
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Lipkin » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:11 pm

It would be pretty funny if this story ended with all 5 sides mentioned so far being wiped out by the rolling wave of decryption. GK just comes in in the last update and takes everyone out.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:13 pm

Krennson wrote:Charlie also does Telecom, and Crush hasn't been closely watched, or mind-jailed by a thinkamancer. In theory, if Charlie DID exist as a mercenary company at the moment, Crush could call Charlie, pay a thinkagram charge, and inform his queen of everything he knows about the upcoming treachery.


As a prisoner, I'm thinking Crush is likely cut off from having access to the treasury. His own personal purse, if prisoners have such, is also probably dry. So it'd depend on his Queen wanting to contact him. Which gets into questions such as.. Can you contact prisoners? If so, why would she contact him? In most circumstances, he'd be chained up in a jail cell. Does she think its a useful expenditure of Schmuckers given the sudden war? Can a ruler even tell if a prisoner is alive*? And if she was able and willing to contact him, taking a wild chance that his intel was useful, could she trust him? Turnamancy is a thing, after all.

* recall that Jillian managed to send a hat message during her first escape attempt. If Banhammer knew she was alive and where she was(ruler sense), it would've been trivial to dispatch Gwiffons to collect her.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Krennson » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:47 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:
Krennson wrote:Charlie also does Telecom, and Crush hasn't been closely watched, or mind-jailed by a thinkamancer. In theory, if Charlie DID exist as a mercenary company at the moment, Crush could call Charlie, pay a thinkagram charge, and inform his queen of everything he knows about the upcoming treachery.


As a prisoner, I'm thinking Crush is likely cut off from having access to the treasury. His own personal purse, if prisoners have such, is also probably dry. So it'd depend on his Queen wanting to contact him. Which gets into questions such as.. Can you contact prisoners? If so, why would she contact him? In most circumstances, he'd be chained up in a jail cell. Does she think its a useful expenditure of Schmuckers given the sudden war? Can a ruler even tell if a prisoner is alive*? And if she was able and willing to contact him, taking a wild chance that his intel was useful, could she trust him? Turnamancy is a thing, after all.

* recall that Jillian managed to send a hat message during her first escape attempt. If Banhammer knew she was alive and where she was(ruler sense), it would've been trivial to dispatch Gwiffons to collect her.


Per this page, Jillian was concerned that even as a prisoner, olive might be negotiating with Charlie.

http://www.erfworld.com/2013/08/inner-p ... isode-070/
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby Lipkin » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:34 pm

Krennson wrote:
Jabberwocky wrote:
Krennson wrote:Charlie also does Telecom, and Crush hasn't been closely watched, or mind-jailed by a thinkamancer. In theory, if Charlie DID exist as a mercenary company at the moment, Crush could call Charlie, pay a thinkagram charge, and inform his queen of everything he knows about the upcoming treachery.


As a prisoner, I'm thinking Crush is likely cut off from having access to the treasury. His own personal purse, if prisoners have such, is also probably dry. So it'd depend on his Queen wanting to contact him. Which gets into questions such as.. Can you contact prisoners? If so, why would she contact him? In most circumstances, he'd be chained up in a jail cell. Does she think its a useful expenditure of Schmuckers given the sudden war? Can a ruler even tell if a prisoner is alive*? And if she was able and willing to contact him, taking a wild chance that his intel was useful, could she trust him? Turnamancy is a thing, after all.

* recall that Jillian managed to send a hat message during her first escape attempt. If Banhammer knew she was alive and where she was(ruler sense), it would've been trivial to dispatch Gwiffons to collect her.


Per this page, Jillian was concerned that even as a prisoner, olive might be negotiating with Charlie.

http://www.erfworld.com/2013/08/inner-p ... isode-070/

Olive was a ruler. She had the authority to offer anything to be delivered upon her rescue.
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Re: Lord Crush – Part 3

Postby 0beron » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:55 am

I don't remember the exact terms being used, but as a Fugitive Jillian was being offered various payment terms by Charlie. So even without access to a Treasury, a deal seemed to be possible.
After all, mercenary work is simply a kind of contract, so the terms of payment need not be currency. The fact that Jillian suspected Olive was negotiating demonstrates that Prisoners are capable of accepting agreements. So it would follow that Crush is technically in a position to contact and deal with Charlie, and it would then be up to Charlie to decide if he is willing to accept alternate payment.
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