Digdoug - Episode 12

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Beeskee » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:51 am

Minor error in this update:

He he will even get paid by Numloch just for making the attempt.


Heehee. :D

And yeah everyone's getting the shaft here. They don't know Charlie is a carnymancer. Charlie may or may not know they have another carnymancer on staff, who herself may not know the full plan or whose priorities may have shifted. Numloch and Delkey are both getting messed with, but one or both of them may discover the truth behind the ploy, and/or either of those sides might show up with unexpected reinforcements. I hope there is something in the contract for Charlie to actually help Homekey if something goes wrong.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby gdavge2003 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:54 am

It's overs for Posbrake, no where to hide, no where to run, relying basically only on Dove.. gg. Can't wait for the next update!
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Watchmaker » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:00 am

One obvious loophole would be to knock the tower down, castled king and all.

"Checkmate, wouldn't it be?"
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lilwik » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:09 am

cheeseaholic wrote:Wait, why does he want to stand on the tower during battle?
He wants to tempt Charlie into breaking the contract and really attacking, thereby satisfying the Prediction and forcing Charlie to pay the penalty fee, which would give Homekey plenty of shmuckers to defend itself from any other attacks that may be heading its way.

"I will stand in full view, daring those ranged flyers of his to take a shot at collecting Numloch’s bounty. If they do, then the Prediction is still fulfilled, and our financial worries are over."
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby name lips » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:17 am

There's going to be a loophole that allows Charlie not to break any contract, get paid by everyone (sometimes twice), maintain his reputation, and collect the bounty for killing Posbrake.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Whispri » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:01 am

If I had to pick a way for this to go wrong, I'd suggest... has Numloch arranged any support for Charlie? Perhaps some other band of airborne mercs they'd have hired to attack Homekey anyway, plan or no?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lerysh » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:11 am

It all sounded so good, until that last line.

Posbrake wrote:he has no idea what a little Carnymancy can do to one’s best-laid plans.


That line made me double take. Clearly the King is in for a rude awakening. He is essentially gambling his entire side on a throw of the dice with some Carnymancy luck. Does he not remember the card game? A rule you choose to break can't make you win.

One thing is for sure, looking forward to the next update.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby WindStruck » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:13 am

Hi all! Two thoughts came to mind when thinking of this story...

1) It turns out this fake air attack doesn't really count, and ages later it becomes Jetstone's capitol which suffers the massive air attack. :mrgreen:

2) ...seeing as the whole plan does seem risky, it might have been worth it to just move the freaking capitol and ruler. Weatherbug seemed like a nice place with all the improvements done to it, though I suppose the real issue preventing this workaround is the cost of changing capitol cities...
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lerysh » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:34 am

Weatehrbug is about as far as you can get from a "nice place". It was a dump before Digdoug got there, flooded all the time and always damp and muddy, AND it's a boarder city constantly being traded. It would be a terrible site for a capitol.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lilwik » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:40 am

Lerysh wrote:He is essentially gambling his entire side on a throw of the dice with some Carnymancy luck.
It seems like Carnymancy doesn't deal in luck; it deals in rules and certainty, much like Predictamancy. If you want luck, you should use Luckamancy. I suspect that if Dove really does cast the spell that she says she's going to cast, then not even a more powerful Carnymancer will be able to make it possible for Posbrake to be shot on that turn. The only thing that Dove seems to have to sell is promises, like her guarantee that Posbrake won't be shot, and those promises are worthless if they can fail.

Lerysh wrote:Does he not remember the card game? A rule you choose to break can't make you win.
In the card game it was the rule that you made yourself that couldn't make you win. No one was breaking any rules in that game. I think it was just an illustration of rules turning off and on and how changing the rules changes who wins.

Lerysh wrote:One thing is for sure, looking forward to the next update.
Me too. I love this story and I love text updates. As much as I would hate the shame of Erfworld not being able to afford comic pages, I can't help but think that I might actually enjoy a text Book 3 more than a comic version. I wonder when Rob Balder will write a best-selling novel. That would probably make kickstarters unnecessary.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby ryuplaneswalker » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:59 am

This is going to end very badly for postbreak I think.

They entered into a contract with Charlie, a contract at base is a set of rules two parties are agreeing too is it not?

“Prob’ly the most common spell in Carnymancy lets you break one rule, for one turn, for one unit.” Dove punctuated her words by holding up an index finger. “As you get more powerful as a Carny, there are more and more rules it’s possible to break. That doesn’t sound like a big deal, but it can be. It really can.”


Couldn't Charlie as a very powerful Carnymancer nullify a rule of a contract for one turn..kill post break, and then wipe out the rest of Homekey to prevent anyone from telling his little secret?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby goodmorning » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:42 am

Charlie can't knock the tower down and kill the king (or rather, he can but he won't). He has a 1000 schmucker penalty for killing a unit, and knocking the tower down would cause a LOT of units to croak.

My theory is Charlie is happy to get paid to perform this attack because a) getting paid is nice and b) in the fake attack Digdoug will be using up all of the REAL air defence spells!

Next turn they will have no air defences left, having wasted them on negligible attacks. And Charlie can just walk in, as the contract will be over, and then get paid by Numloch.


Side point: If you kill the king and the side is disbanded, is there anyone left to have the contract with? So if Charlie breaks the contract and kills Posbrake, will the contract penalties still be enforced? I assume that's part of Signamancy magic or something.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Gamer » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:19 am

Prediction: Charlie will indeed croak Posbrake. Probably using a carnymancy spell (like stating that for these units, ranged attacks count as melee attacks - maybe adding another spell causing minimum attacks to cause maximum damage). Honoring his contract, he WILL then pay the fine - which is MUCH less than the 300k bounty he earns (135k + 1k for croaking one unit).

Maybe he does it another way, but he'll end up croaking Posbrake AND honoring the contract, at least.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lilwik » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:48 am

goodmorning wrote:If you kill the king and the side is disbanded, is there anyone left to have the contract with? So if Charlie breaks the contract and kills Posbrake, will the contract penalties still be enforced?
Contracts are magically binding, which seems to mean that they physically enforce themselves. Parson is unable to lie to Charlie about the results of the calculations that Parson performs for Charlie, and Wanda is unable to talk about the events in Haffaton. Therefore I think we can safely guess that Charlie will be physically incapable of attacking Posbrake until after Charlie pays the penalty clause to get out of the contract. Of course, that wouldn't make any difference if Charlie captured the city and took the treasury, because that would cause the entire penalty payment plus more to be returned to Charlie.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby NYbear » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:58 am

WindStruck wrote:2) ...seeing as the whole plan does seem risky, it might have been worth it to just move the freaking capitol and ruler. Weatherbug seemed like a nice place with all the improvements done to it, though I suppose the real issue preventing this workaround is the cost of changing capitol cities...


You are forgetting that Capitals can only be moved to Capital Sites...its highly likely (as a young side) that Homekey has no other Capital sites, and Weatherbug (besides being a terrible choice) was never mentioned as a Capital site.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Free Radical » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:31 am

Tarvok wrote:Still, Dove being in league with Charlie feels... too obvious. I don't like to analyze stories at the meta level, but I can't help but think something nobody is expecting is going to happen.

Well, for a lesson about Carnymancy, a pretty good twist would be "sometimes you can fight fate, sometimes you can't fight fate". The Predictamancy said there would be a massive air attack in the near future. It didn't say that there couldn't be two. As Dove explained “So Carnymancy is about changing the game, but it’s not all-powerful. Some plans get disrupted, and some stay robust."

Charlie and Dove could sell this plan to Posbrake as fulfilling the Predictamancy, collect their fees from Posbrake as well as Charlie's fees from Numloch, actually fulfill the Predictamancy to earn their fees.. and still not prevent a massive air attack incoming from a third party - say, Prince Pluss of Follywood (the former heir to the throne).
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Sallo » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:47 am

Oh, don't say that, your majesty.
We can see the spider-silk lines of the trap starting to encircle our heroes.
Hopefully Doug will survive what happens when the lines pull taut.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Omnimancer » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:08 am

NYbear wrote:
WindStruck wrote:2) ...seeing as the whole plan does seem risky, it might have been worth it to just move the freaking capitol and ruler. Weatherbug seemed like a nice place with all the improvements done to it, though I suppose the real issue preventing this workaround is the cost of changing capitol cities...


You are forgetting that Capitals can only be moved to Capital Sites...its highly likely (as a young side) that Homekey has no other Capital sites, and Weatherbug (besides being a terrible choice) was never mentioned as a Capital site.


That's actually still unclear. In the prequel, I know that Jillian went out specifically looking for a capital site. But it's unclear whether "capital site" is a hex type, or just a description for a city site that's ideal for being the capital.

It might be like in civ games where you can put your capital in any city you own, but you'll ideally want it somewhere with lots of natural resources and defensive geography. Less ideal cities might still be eligible to be the capital, but could come with penalties like fewer shmuckers produced, longer unit production time, efficiency penalties on your entire side, and who knows what else.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby drachefly » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:12 am

I really doubt it. Capital sites have been discrete, and there has been no discussion of possible alternates or sub-optimal capital site selections. Simply, it's a capital site or not.

Lipkin wrote:I do have to cop to being wrong about something. I was throwing a lot of lip about there being a difference between a limitation and a rule, and that Carnies could only break rules that were actually written. But making a target immune to ranged attacks doesn't really sound like breaking a specific rule to me.


Replace the contents of the evade_ranged_attack() call with 'return true;'
Looks exactly like a rule to me.

If anyone played the B5 card game... Posbrake just got like 4 doom counters.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 12

Postby Lipkin » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:59 am

Omnimancer wrote:
NYbear wrote:
WindStruck wrote:2) ...seeing as the whole plan does seem risky, it might have been worth it to just move the freaking capitol and ruler. Weatherbug seemed like a nice place with all the improvements done to it, though I suppose the real issue preventing this workaround is the cost of changing capitol cities...


You are forgetting that Capitals can only be moved to Capital Sites...its highly likely (as a young side) that Homekey has no other Capital sites, and Weatherbug (besides being a terrible choice) was never mentioned as a Capital site.


That's actually still unclear. In the prequel, I know that Jillian went out specifically looking for a capital site. But it's unclear whether "capital site" is a hex type, or just a description for a city site that's ideal for being the capital.

It might be like in civ games where you can put your capital in any city you own, but you'll ideally want it somewhere with lots of natural resources and defensive geography. Less ideal cities might still be eligible to be the capital, but could come with penalties like fewer shmuckers produced, longer unit production time, efficiency penalties on your entire side, and who knows what else.

No, it's pretty clear. Haffaton was stated to have 16 capital sites, with a ton of other cities. Why make the distinction if it's an arbitrary choice? Also, Stanley fled to the ruins of Faq because it was a capital site.
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