Summer Updates - 048

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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Tubal-Cain » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:49 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Also, why would attuners to the Tools happen to be popped at roughly the same time in Erf's history?

Who says they have? We haven't seen an Old Age game mechanic yet.
Charlie is (ironically) the only person we have an idea of approximate "age" for: about 700 turns, or 2 years.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:58 pm

SkySavage wrote:Long time reader, first time poster here.

This comic, as it stands, seriously needs a hero.
***snip: it doesn't have one***


Everyone is free to enjoy- or not- the comic really, so let's agree to disagree here.

Parson has, maybe, lost screen-time. This was however to flesh out the complicated Erfworld. In the spirit of "step back to jump higher", his being side-lined offered him some time for exploration as well.

As for not sympathetic characters, that's very subjective.

I hate: Charlie (IMMENSELY), Jillian, Wanda, Don, AND Caesar. Lots of people appreciate those characters though.

I like Maggie a lot, always have, and she's gotten more center-stage lately. Not protagonist material (why not? I'd read that!) by many standards, but here's some light. And I stick by Parson being a developping character.

If I must voice disappointment, it is about Stanley. I have a soft spot for him, the whole idea of a clueless ambitious schmuck really makes him endearing. So I expected some more development for him. Turns out, that was in short supply.

Oh well.

Stick around though, things will definitely be interesting.

Tubal-Cain wrote:Who says they have? We haven't seen an Old Age game mechanic yet.
Charlie is (ironically) the only person we have an idea of approximate "age" for: about 700 turns, or 2 years.


How old is Erfworld anyway? Assuming it is older, much older than Charlie (reasonable, no?), "roughly at the same time" means what it does on Earth. That these people were born close enough to each other in time to be contemporaries. And on Erfworld, life can be rather short as well.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby shadowdemon » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:12 pm

Charlie finally gets his comeuppance, thank god. Also I think Parson is back in psychological warfare mode. He's trying to keep Charlie off balance, trying to get him to reveal things, and feeding him the misinformation. He's being a giant douche on purpose here, this is not really reflective of his personality at large, but merely his approach to dealing with a backstabbing manipulative mercenary. Remember his exchanges with the archons for example, not much douchery there.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Tyris » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:16 pm

A) Killing a Tool would supposedly deny the "Titanic Mandate". Congratulations, Charlie, you've just made it so that even if Parson DOES beat you, he probably won't bother to kill you lest it ruin the morale of his troops and the degree of plausibility Toolism has acquired to convert others.

B) On the other hand, it means the same for Charlie. Killing a Tool such as Stanely or Wanda will hoist him by his own petard, since it will prove that Tools can be beaten--which means Charlie HIMSELF can thus, obviously, be defeated. For a guy who makes himself seem enigmatic and powerful at the same time, with the ability to 'help' anyone who can pay him, it would suck for the rest of the world to realize he's just another schmuck who's acquired a powerful magic item and can be brought low in the usual fashion. If Parson 'goes public' with Charlie's rules, or the information of the SIX HUNDRED ARCHON FLEET, it might make people rather wary. Indeed, if most knew, they might prefer to NOT take his services, thus cutting into his income and reducing his capability to meet the vast upkeep levels of his Archons. Downward spiral of power loss. Maybe it's a good idea to keep those Tools alive, on either side.

C) Charlie is used to being calm, cool, and collected... totally 'in control', in more ways than one. Logic over emotion, and all that. Parson's banter could easily be to see if he can make Charlie lose some of that cool and slip up with more information or by an ill-planned scouting expedition ("Come see us in our weakened state..." *BLAM!* "Thanks for the new Archons!"). Alternatively, Parson may have to do this to prevent anything else HE knows of importance from slipping. It may not be his clever plan to disable Charlie so much as his somewhat cunning plan to keep himself from slipping up at a time when information security is essential to their success.

D) In many TBS games, you have to DEVELOP your city and its population before it begins producing money. Often this comes by making food-producing and entertainment and/or mercantile structures to a point where it begins producing more money than the upgrades cost as upkeep. It's entirely possible that Team Stanely is suffering from reduced cash since the flow is going in the opposite direction... things are costing them more. I don't believe that's the FULL truth of it, just the "little truth" that Parson gave Charlie so he didn't have to give away the "big truth" (the massed attack for a decapitation strike). It's entirely possible Charlie has a way to detect falsehoods or would be apt enough to figure them out on his own, thus Parson has to give him something both believable and true.

E) Has anyone considered what happens if Wanda DIES? Not just the 'disproving Toolism' bit, but thought more into it... all her troops carry HER livery, not Stanleys. She's a Croakamancer with a Croakamancy Arkentool. Is it possible that on dying she can Decrypt HERSELF? Erfworld could end up with its first equivalent to a Lich... and they dying process MIGHT just break all bonds of Loyalty she has with Stanley, turning her into her own side. We know as a Barbarian she can control other units, so she simply 're-takes' all the cities she's taken so far that don't have living units in them (her Uncroaked are already there, awaiting her commands), whilst also having a pile of high-level Archons inside Gobwin Knob itself. She could then end up as the true "Zombie Lord" of Erfworld, and even Parson and Charlie would have to work toward dealing with that situation.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby raphfrk » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:22 pm

Tyris wrote:E) Has anyone considered what happens if Wanda DIES? Not just the 'disproving Toolism' bit, but thought more into it... all her troops carry HER livery, not Stanleys. She's a Croakamancer with a Croakamancy Arkentool. Is it possible that on dying she can Decrypt HERSELF? Erfworld could end up with its first equivalent to a Lich... and they dying process MIGHT just break all bonds of Loyalty she has with Stanley, turning her into her own side.


The pliers itself might even be able to do the decrypting.

In FFXI, they have a "reraise" spell, which gives the caster a buff that allows them to self-raise on death.

This allows a white mage to raise himself and then the entire group after a party wipeout.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby stm177 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:28 pm

SkySavage wrote:Long time reader, first time poster here.

This comic, as it stands, seriously needs a hero especially if I'm going to ever want to visit it during book 2. Someone I can rally behind.


Maybe the new heir that TV is popping? If this were a fantasy book, the new heir would be born just as the kingdom is being destroyed. He (or she!) would be spirited away by the king's most trusted man at arms, and raised in secret. A prophecy would have him returning to free his kingdom, and he would go on a long quest to find the McGuffin to defeat the evil empire.

Now that is very cliche, but the "loser to prince" story is extremely popular for a reason. It is easy to write, allows for character development, and is appealing to teenagers.

I expect that the Erfworld story will go in another direction, because it already deconstructs so many of the fantasy tropes.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:32 pm

Tyris wrote:[Wanda]could then end up as the true "Zombie Lord" of Erfworld, and even Parson and Charlie would have to work toward dealing with that situation.


Sweet zombie Wanda!

In reply to raphfrk, there was also a campaign in Wesnoth where you met an adorable couple of priests. When one died, the other raised him/her IMMEDIATELY after, making them immortal in the game's terms. They were on your side. The campaign was still booping difficult.

stm177 wrote:Maybe the new heir that TV is popping? If this were a fantasy book, the new heir would be born just as the kingdom is being destroyed. [etc]


I agree, it does not seem likely that this is the direction Erfworld is heading. But if it were, then the fact that the trusted man-at-arms hates the Prince's/Princess' guts already makes for an interesting take.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Gez » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:33 pm

stm177 wrote:Maybe the new heir that TV is popping? If this were a fantasy book, the new heir would be born just as the kingdom is being destroyed. He (or she!) would be spirited away by the king's most trusted man at arms, and raised in secret. A prophecy would have him returning to free his kingdom, and he would go on a long quest to find the McGuffin to defeat the evil empire.

Some of the details don't fit, but otherwise that's Jillian's story.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Decorus » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:40 pm

Charlie is warning Parson about something that the Coalition is going to attempt. Either:
A. They are amassing an army to take out Wanda and eliminating her Decrypted Army.
B. They are planning on chopping off the head and go for the weakly defended GK killing Stanley and turning Wanda/Ansom to thier side.
C. They are planning on turning Ansom on either Wanda or Stanley. (After all think of how many converts Ansom could get if he tried and failed to off Stanley.

The diminishing Schmuckers comment is likely because of Unaroyal making any further conquering attempts useless. Unaroyal introduced the ancient tactic of scorched earth which eliminates the usefulness of Wanda's decrypted army. If they attack a city and it does the same thing that Unaroyal did they have to spend an obscene amount of schmuckers making the new city viable that its no longer worth doing.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:53 pm

Decorus wrote:The diminishing Schmuckers comment is likely because of Unaroyal making any further conquering attempts useless. Unaroyal introduced the ancient tactic of scorched earth which eliminates the usefulness of Wanda's decrypted army. If they attack a city and it does the same thing that Unaroyal did they have to spend an obscene amount of schmuckers making the new city viable that its no longer worth doing.


Unlikely. Queen Bea specifically commented on how GK's ranks included former Unaroyal units. It is plausible that GK got a handsome numeric boost from that campaign. In fact she mentions

She wore black livery, adorned with a white skull and pink flower crest. At her back stood maximum stacks of heavy units and siege, including many I recognized as former Unaroyal units. There also stood the Chief Warlord of Gobwin Knob. I knew his face. I had known him as Slately's son, Ansom.


What Unaroyal did was not scorched Earth, but rather sepukku (spelling?). Nobody will follow that particular example until Wanda's at the gates.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Hobgobwin » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:55 pm

So twolls can make... bog roll?
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:56 pm

Hobgobwin wrote:So twolls can make... bog roll?


My hat is off to you, Madam or Sir.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Ishma3l » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:57 pm

[quote="Decorus"]B. They are planning on chopping off the head and go for the weakly defended GK killing Stanley and turning Wanda/Ansom to thier side.


Two things: First: GK is no where near weakly defended, one of the fist summer updated marked it as possibly the hardest point in the world. Even if it had one Twoll with a pointy stick, it would be hard to take, let alone the half a fleet of Archons and however many Dwgons are flying around.

Second: I may be the only one, but does anyone else think Charlie might be a girl, from the same world as Parson, and created the Male Charlie Persona as a veil? What if she was summoned in a similar fashion, found the Arken Dish, brainwashed her boss into declaring her heir, had the boss take long walk off a short balcony, and is now living a life of leisure with a fleet and an in-joke?
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Infidel » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:02 pm

Megaduck wrote:I think Charlie is feeling the stress right now. Before he reminded me of a used car salesmen with a loud suit and a round face that always smiles to much. He was always relaxed and talked in circles.

Now he's being more straight forward and actually delivering threats.


I don't see it as a threat, so much as encouragement. Kill the "tool" and take it for yourself. Charley is still trying to sow the seeds of discord, but Parson is wise to it.

I'm trying to imagine the depth of shear hatred Charlie must feel for Parson right now. Parson refused his offer, dealt him a humiliating defeat, and is coming out ahead in their conversations.


I don't know necessarily that it's really hatred. Parson and Charley are both competent and like to shoot the breeze even while going against each other. That's pretty common in games too. And it's also pretty common to get pissed at the other during the course of game-play. Certainly in multi-player games I've told my opponents I hated them when they did something sufficiently sneaky or otherwise detrimental to my pet projects.
Who is that beautiful red-headed devil,
Stabs you in the heart so that she can level?
It's Scarlet!
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby LordDarksea » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:08 pm

Ok, so I've not read through the entire forum comments (for this update or the last few), so apologies if this has been commented on already.

Queen Bea writes her suicide/heroic death note on fine vellum.
Parson 'jokes' about Charlie committing suicide for the sake of science/theosophy
Parson spends the message time obsessed with very thin parchment.

There are some great links there. in modern usage vellum often means fine parchment, rather than its earlier meaning of parchment made from cow skin.

I just find the implications fun here, what with the interplay of arse-wiping : suicide : suicide notes

might just be me, as I've observed before i spend far too much time thinking about parchment, ink and the such like!

Also, am very glad that Twolls can make parchment, wonder if there is a field somewhere nearby where sheep/cows/goats/deer/bears/etcs are popping out of existence each time?
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:11 pm

LordDarksea, rest assured, that's an original take on the Parson/Charlie duel in this update.

Ishma3l wrote:Second: I may be the only one, but does anyone else think Charlie might be a girl, from the same world as Parson, and created the Male Charlie Persona as a veil? What if she was summoned in a similar fashion, found the Arken Dish, brainwashed her boss into declaring her heir, had the boss take long walk off a short balcony, and is now living a life of leisure with a fleet and an in-joke?


Boop no. Charlie is a Unicorn.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Albatross! » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:12 pm

This update made me chuckle. Funny to see how Parson has grown from not knowing boop to being smug as hell with Charlie of all people. Pity Ansom's not playing things as smart as he could be, but that is just how things work in the story; Parson does the sensible things because his role in GK is to BE sensible. Most everyone else outside of Maggie and Sizemore have a less than sensible agenda to push. Sounds a lot like Book 1 in some ways, actually.

Anyway, enough rambling from me. Really looking forward to the start of Book 2 tomorrow. :D
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Roketter » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:19 pm

About the Schmucker diminishing thing...

Parson may be lying... While the RCC2 knows Decrypted have greater stats, none of them appear to have ever mentioned they have *^No upkeep**.

So perhaps the coalition expects Gobwin Knob to go bankrupt at any moment due to having so many troops... wich won't necesarily happen. and all the while, thei'r producing their own units. Creepy.

On the other hand, Uncroaked don't seem to have an upkeep either, so if they see Decrypted as upgraded uncroaked, it makes complete sense for them to think it obvious (as in, anyone caring to know what casters can do) that they have no upkeep.
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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby Hatu » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:21 pm

SteveMB wrote:Rather interesting how Charlie remains non-committal on the whole "mandate of the Titans" issue. And, really, his idea wouldn't "falsify" it, strictly speaking -- people in the real world have been known to believe that God is on their side regardless of misfortunes up to and including the moment of death -- though it would be more than a bit demoralizing.


That was my thought as well. Killing Wanda and Stanley might end the war in that one side would be destroyed, but it would not 'prove' anything more than that. Royals have died, and the rest continue to believe in their mandate.

As to the "dimishing Schmuckers" bit, I'm inclined towards the misinformation camp. Last we knew, GK was preparing for a major strike, and I see no reason why Parson would volunteer anything truthful to Charlie at this point.

Looking forward to Book 2.

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Re: Summer Updates - 048

Postby BoopingCynic » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:22 pm

Infidel wrote:
Megaduck wrote:I think Charlie is feeling the stress right now. Before he reminded me of a used car salesmen with a loud suit and a round face that always smiles to much. He was always relaxed and talked in circles.

Now he's being more straight forward and actually delivering threats.


I don't see it as a threat, so much as encouragement. Kill the "tool" and take it for yourself. Charley is still trying to sow the seeds of discord, but Parson is wise to it.

I'm trying to imagine the depth of shear hatred Charlie must feel for Parson right now. Parson refused his offer, dealt him a humiliating defeat, and is coming out ahead in their conversations.


I don't know necessarily that it's really hatred. Parson and Charley are both competent and like to shoot the breeze even while going against each other. That's pretty common in games too. And it's also pretty common to get pissed at the other during the course of game-play. Certainly in multi-player games I've told my opponents I hated them when they did something sufficiently sneaky or otherwise detrimental to my pet projects.


Charlie has the ability but not the motive to attack GK or Wanda unless the RCC2 pays him which they won't, or GK attacks him which would be a bad idea compared to a pact of nonaggression where GK would have to pay him not to attack them. So all Charlie can do is hope the RCC2 or Gk will hire him and try to destabilize them in accordance with his 3rd rule.
As For the Wanda becomes a Lich it would be possible to do it if she set the spell on herself beforehand. This would give her her own decrypted bonus and make her more powerful. I honestly love this idea :D.

Tyris wrote:E) Has anyone considered what happens if Wanda DIES? Not just the 'disproving Toolism' bit, but thought more into it... all her troops carry HER livery, not Stanleys. She's a Croakamancer with a Croakamancy Arkentool. Is it possible that on dying she can Decrypt HERSELF? Erfworld could end up with its first equivalent to a Lich... and they dying process MIGHT just break all bonds of Loyalty she has with Stanley, turning her into her own side. We know as a Barbarian she can control other units, so she simply 're-takes' all the cities she's taken so far that don't have living units in them (her Uncroaked are already there, awaiting her commands), whilst also having a pile of high-level Archons inside Gobwin Knob itself. She could then end up as the true "Zombie Lord" of Erfworld, and even Parson and Charlie would have to work toward dealing with that situation.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
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