Digdoug - Episode 15

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Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby balder » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:25 am

New One is up.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby themysticalone » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:47 am

Wineamancy. I love it.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby badninja » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:03 pm

All this toasting, Digdoug is screwed. I think he will die last seeing Charlie get everyone.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Manic Oppressive » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:00 pm

I feel like Rob is trying to go for something a bit deeper with this arc than "Charlie is an evil traitor and everyone dies."

Also I didn't realize until this update that Bucky is female.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Mathamancer » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Manic Oppressive wrote:Also I didn't realize until this update that Bucky is female.


Oh, good - so it's not just me.

I went back, and sure enough there is more than enough implication by pronouns (her/she), but it just hadn't really registered until now for some reason.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Althernai » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:22 pm

I think the emotion will come not from the actions of Charlie, but from those of Dove. The readers know how much of a weasel Charlie can be and even the characters have some suspicion, but his appearance in this story is very impersonal -- Charlescom is essentially a force of nature. This is Dove's game and I doubt she is as friendly to Homekey as she makes herself out to be.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Denar » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:47 pm

I think Dove's a goodie. If Dove turns traitor, then what's the message? That all Carnymancer's everywhere are untrustworthy, honourless, backstabbers, golddiggers, etc etc - just as we expected?

She's already cast in a unfavourable light by everyone who speaks of her (though tbh the revelation from Bucky confuses this somewhat - this story can't end now with BOTH Dove and Bucky alive [if Posbrake's still in love with Dove], unless Bucky gets with Digdoug/Peck... which I don't see happening. Basically I think this is Bucky's Death Flag showing). The "twist" is going to be how she really does care about Posbrake/Digdoug/her new side.

We've gotten the theme so far, that these stories are going to "help" Parson in some way, dealing with Charlie. The first was about uniting to defeat an otherwise unstoppable, manipulative force, and creating a system that almost completely guarantees world peace forever (take it further to mean, not only defeating Charlie in battle, but also defeating the idea of Charlie, of a mercenary/puppeteer that can profit off eternal war).

This one's going to be, I don't know how to word it, about how Dove/Posbrake/Digdoug together are still able to "outthink" Charlie - Dove's taught them all how to think like a Carnymancer - and they're going to put that into practice to outdo him. It's going to be about how Charlie is not impossible to outplay, even though he's the "Omniscient Master Carny-Rule Breaker with a God Artifact", the story's going to be how **thinking** like a Carny - which Parson can be exceptionally good at - can be better than actually **using** magic Carnymancy (echoing Dove's words, some solutions just require you to think like one, rather than cast a spell).

Anyway that's my take on it.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:12 pm

I have serious doubts that this story is going to show Charlie being one upped in any significant way. If it does, then Parson is going to look stupid for having trouble with Charlie and/or his defeat of Charlie is going to be far less impressive if, what can be described as a few hicks and a low level Carnymancer, manage to get the better of him just because of Dove's 'think like a Carnymancer' advice.

I find it much more likely that the conflict in all this is going to come from Creen, not Charlie. While Charlie has been shown to be unreliable in the grand scheme, changing alliances here and there and everywhere and generally fueling war, the other thing that has been shown with him is that he keeps his promises (or at least his contracts). And in all honesty, we really haven't even seen a case of him trying to weasel within a contract. We've seen cases of him (non contractually) saying he would do something, then not exactly following through as would have been thought, but not him backing out of or even 'creatively interpreting' a contract.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Salem » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:53 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I have serious doubts that this story is going to show Charlie being one upped in any significant way. If it does, then Parson is going to look stupid for having trouble with Charlie and/or his defeat of Charlie is going to be far less impressive if, what can be described as a few hicks and a low level Carnymancer, manage to get the better of him just because of Dove's 'think like a Carnymancer' advice.

I find it much more likely that the conflict in all this is going to come from Creen, not Charlie. While Charlie has been shown to be unreliable in the grand scheme, changing alliances here and there and everywhere and generally fueling war, the other thing that has been shown with him is that he keeps his promises (or at least his contracts). And in all honesty, we really haven't even seen a case of him trying to weasel within a contract. We've seen cases of him (non contractually) saying he would do something, then not exactly following through as would have been thought, but not him backing out of or even 'creatively interpreting' a contract.


I don't know. I think this might open us up to something else.

One of the questionable corner stones of contract law in English/American jurisprudence is the idea of efficient breach. It's posed against the idea that people should honor their contracts.

An efficient breach is the idea that I can breach a contract pay damages to the other side of the contract and still gain. Oftentimes it's considered a good thing because the other side can use the damages and end up no worse for it. Sometimes only side wins. So it's a conflicted idea but Charlie I think is all about efficient breach. But, into his calculations goes the idea that reputation is a cost of breach. That might come up.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Omnimancer » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:53 pm

About drinking in Erfworld, I wonder if start of turn cures hangovers?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:08 pm

I don't see 300k being worth the damage to his rep. 300k is... what, like 1-2 turns upkeep for him? That's not worth losing potential clients. And if he works regularly for Posbreak in the future, that's a long term investment in war right there.

Edit: I was wondering that too Omni. However, they're going to get attacked before the start of their turn, so doesn't that mean the healing doesn't happen yet? I'm a little confused on that point actually. People don't get rations or their clothes cleaned till the start of turn. Have we heard about healing?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby wih » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:43 pm

We saw Jillian getting her wounds healed at the start of the day near the beginning of Book 1.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Lilwik » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:08 pm

wih wrote:We saw Jillian getting her wounds healed at the start of the day near the beginning of Book 1.
It's pretty hard to keep track of turn order, but at the time it seems that Gobwin Knob was going first in the turn order, and Jillian was Gobwin Knob's prisoner when we saw her heal in B1P38, therefore she was healing at the start of her turn. That may seem odd since both Charlescomm and Transylvito have a natural turn order before Gobwin Knob (as indicated by B1P144), but I think they were both allied with Jetstone at the time.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:22 pm

Lilwik wrote:
wih wrote:We saw Jillian getting her wounds healed at the start of the day near the beginning of Book 1.
It's pretty hard to keep track of turn order, but at the time it seems that Gobwin Knob was going first in the turn order, and Jillian was Gobwin Knob's prisoner when we saw her heal in B1P38, therefore she was healing at the start of her turn. That may seem odd since both Charlescomm and Transylvito have a natural turn order before Gobwin Knob (as indicated by B1P144), but I think they were both allied with Jetstone at the time.

Transylvito is for sure. Charlescomm... they have the archons flying around, so I think they are too.

Speaking of which, Charlescomm must be subject to some interesting time of day turns, since they're likely allied with a dozen different people at once. Likely each area gets its own individual time of day.

I imagine everyone heals at the start of day, instead of start of turn. Otherwise counterattacks from late in the day defenders would be devistating.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Lipkin » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:23 pm

Dove in the card game made a point to mention that she won a trick without having to do anything. Taking money that comes to you for no risk is important. I think both Dove and Charlie will stick to the plan, but all the precautions that Peck, Doug, and the extra archers have put into place will bankrupt the side when they start croaking Archons.

Homekey is a progressive side with a lot of neat ideas, but it's got a lot of internal conflict from people not seeing eye to eye. Reminds me of the Battle of Spacerock, where things almost ended in tragedy because of the troops trying to take their own initiative.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Silversought » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 pm

Lipkin wrote:Dove in the card game made a point to mention that she won a trick without having to do anything. Taking money that comes to you for no risk is important. I think both Dove and Charlie will stick to the plan, but all the precautions that Peck, Doug, and the extra archers have put into place will bankrupt the side when they start croaking Archons.

Homekey is a progressive side with a lot of neat ideas, but it's got a lot of internal conflict from people not seeing eye to eye. Reminds me of the Battle of Spacerock, where things almost ended in tragedy because of the troops trying to take their own initiative.


Does seem pretty likely. Still hoping for not-tragic endings, but I imagine this'll factor into the ending strongly.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Lilwik » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I imagine everyone heals at the start of day, instead of start of turn. Otherwise counterattacks from late in the day defenders would be devastating.
It just means that you have to cope with any injuries you get during your turn while everyone else takes their turns. Since it's your choice whether you engage in combat on your turn, it seems only fair that you accept the consequences.

On the other hand, everyone healing at dawn would mean the side that has the last turn of the day is forced to attack at reduced strength or using wounded soldiers. They would never get a chance to attack at full strength because everyone else would be able to weaken them every day.

Since we know that rations pop at the start of the turn, I think we should assume that healing happens at the start of the turn too, until some evidence suggests otherwise.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:04 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I imagine everyone heals at the start of day, instead of start of turn. Otherwise counterattacks from late in the day defenders would be devastating.
It just means that you have to cope with any injuries you get during your turn while everyone else takes their turns. Since it's your choice whether you engage in combat on your turn, it seems only fair that you accept the consequences.

On the other hand, everyone healing at dawn would mean the side that has the last turn of the day is forced to attack at reduced strength or using wounded soldiers. They would never get a chance to attack at full strength because everyone else would be able to weaken them every day.

Since we know that rations pop at the start of the turn, I think we should assume that healing happens at the start of the turn too, until some evidence suggests otherwise.

That makes sense I suppose. That means whoever attacks first in a war (supposing both sides start at full) needs to make sure it is decisive or they can retreat to safety, otherwise any units they leave alive are going to come get them at full strength. Which I suppose is a small trade off for having the power to dictate the flow of combat, since the enemy can't retreat on your turn, and you can hit and run. Which is basically what Parson did with the dwagon gambit.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Roszlishan » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:46 pm

I rarely engage in predictamancy, but ... I predict ..

Spoiler: show
That the conflict will not come from Charlie, nor Dove, but by Prince Creen and Delkey breaking alliance with Homekey.

Charlie is known for keeping his deals, because his deals better him. In the long run, the highest-payoff solution to the repeated prisoner's dilemma is to cooperate; even the most powerful Carnymancer can't break that rule!


Who knows? Perhaps I'm right.

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 15

Postby Tathar » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Roszlishan wrote:I rarely engage in predictamancy, but ... I predict ..

Spoiler: show
That the conflict will not come from Charlie, nor Dove, but by Prince Creen and Delkey breaking alliance with Homekey.

Charlie is known for keeping his deals, because his deals better him. In the long run, the highest-payoff solution to the repeated prisoner's dilemma is to cooperate; even the most powerful Carnymancer can't break that rule!


Who knows? Perhaps I'm right.

Eternal Happiness --
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I fear you may turn out right on this one.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
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