Digdoug - Episode 16

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Xellos » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:12 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:Exactly. You were listing various potential Chekhov's guns, and Rob has gone out of his way to draw attention to Creen's sword on multiple occasions, so I was adding it to the list. While the Carnymancy spell protects Posbrake from ranged attacks, it will not protect him from Creen's sword. As I said, I doubt that the dramatic turn will be Charlie blatantly breaching his contract, or at least I hope it isn't. In my mind, the most likely scenario involves Creen trying to use the confusion of the battle to settle matters with his brother. There is a very likely possibility that I'm wrong, but that's the path I see the story taking.


It's definitely not against Creen's character to go settle matters and then have a rage fit. Dumb Ways To Croak, though :D
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Denar » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:13 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:I apologize as well. You mentioned Dove in the arrow loop and the pit-trap scroll, and I became fixated on them and disassociated them from the surrounding context.

I doubt Creen would personally engage the archons, though. First, he doesn't seem the type to lead a charge. Second, there's nothing to stop the archons from simply blasting him. Their contract with Posbrake enacts a penalty for croaking Homekey units. Delkey units probably aren't covered. Of course, that's working on the assumption that the archons can differentiate between the two.


I totally agree with your characterisation of Creen. Except that maybe, he would lead a charge, depending on the mechanics of "screening" which haven't been totally explained. If he could use enough fliers to assuredly screen/protect him, then maybe he'd start fighting until that number changed. And those fliers are Homekey's, so the Archons would have to break the contract on their end first to get to him. (but of course he wouldn't know that... if Charlie decided not to break his end of the contract first, then all he'd notice was how little a fight the Archons were putting up)

Here's a page with some interesting dialogue about it: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -06-05.jpg

Ossomer: All units stack to me! Screen for King Stately!

....

Archons: all start jabbering about engaging stately/stately's stack

Archon #1: What are you doing? Ossomer's screening, we gotta take him out before anything else!

Archon #2: What? He can't screen us all!

Archon #4: No, she's right. Get him.


So it seems to be down to a numbers thing possibly maybe as well, and there are a lot of Archons there too, so there's that.

If Creen can't lead a charge without his 100% guarantee of personal safety, then I don't see him doing it. Unless someone provokes him over royalty. Maybe he feels like the non-royal Peck is showing him up in the battle or something.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Mrtyuh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:22 am

Denizen wrote:I wonder if Homekey has to pay much more per killed archon than it costs to pop them. Because Charlie IS a carnymancer, and he could well have cast something like "For this turn, all hits by the enemy will deal maximum damage" just to turn archons into money and/or bankrupt Homekey for some other side's (Numloch?) benefit.

Just to put things into perspective, Charlie, at the time of the Battle of Spacerock was offering over 9,000 schmuckers for the safe release of captured archons. Jillian got about 8,500 schmuckers for razing Diecast, a level-2 city. Faq acquired almost 20,000 schmuckers for sacking Kona, a level 3, and over 40,000 for Progrock, another level 3. Now, the penalty Homekey would pay for croaking an archon is probably higher than the 1,000 schmuckers Charlie would pay for croaking a Homekey stabber, but how much more, and would it be worth it to Charlie? He is willing to pay a significant amount to keep each one safe. How much would it take for him to willingly sacrifice them? Also, I doubt Charlie would be able to receive more in penalties than Homekey possesses in its treasury. Charlie probably is aware that Homekey is a poor side. Once their treasury is empty, Charlie would be sacrificing archons for no return.

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Edit: also, did we just see people apologize for a misunderstanding on an Internet forum?

coyo wrote:dooomdy doom doom doomdy doom....

What can I say? I'm a misanthrope. Anything to hasten the apocalypse, right? :twisted:

As for Creen leading a charge, I guess I could see it happening. After all, in his mind, if someone as ill-equipped to lead as Chief Peck is faring well leading the battle, how much better would the battle be progressing if a royal such as himself took the fore? His arrogance could very well overcome his discretion, leading to him either putting himself into a precarious situation or throwing a wrench into the works by disrupting the performance. I hadn't considered it, but it would definitely work. It certainly would open up some dramatic possibilities. Thanks for pointing out the possibility.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Lilwik » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:53 am

Mrtyuh wrote:Charlie probably is aware that Homekey is a poor side. Once their treasury is empty, Charlie would be sacrificing archons for no return.
Since contracts are magically enforced, once Homekey's treasury is empty I'd expect that all of Homekey's units would find themselves unable to attack archons, much like how Jack was unable to talk about what he learned at Efbaum. Otherwise pretty much any contract could be broken just by sinking your shmuckers into investments so there isn't enough in your treasury to pay the penalty. The whole system would break down.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Mrtyuh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:51 am

While I don't know for certain, I would imagine that if a side had no money in their treasury, they wouldn't be able to pay their units' upkeep, and they would autodisband at the start of their next turn. Perhaps not every unit, since cities produce schmuckers. But you'd only have the schmuckers produced that turn. It would probably be enough to keep the ruler and a few units from disbanding, but the side as a whole would be crippled. I would imagine the threat of that happening makes a large enough financial penalty a very real incentive to not break a contract. That would also prevent a side from emptying their treasure on upgrades just so they could break a contract without penalty. A potential exploit, though, would be if a side had a Moneymancer. Convert the treasury into gems, then, after breaking the contract, convert it back.

Of course, I don't know. That's all speculation.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby (name here) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:18 am

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the unpaid balance of the penalty hangs around and covering it has priority over upkeep. But deliberately sacrificing his Archons does not seem to be Charlie's style. He's fairly protective of them, and it's clear keeping them around is a long-term profit. Plus, given the effectiveness of their Foolamancy, a number of these Archons must be quite high level and difficult to replace. It's looking like he plans to play this one straight. Now, Creen might notice that this was entirely too easy, but it's easy enough to explain that: Archons have Foolamancy, so they made a bunch of decoys and only half a dozen of them were actually real.

Right now, I'm worried Posbrake and Dove have been too clever by half. The Prediction was made before they set this up, and I don't believe they're exclusively self-fufilling; I think they'll come true in some form whether or not anyone hears about them. So while they've found a way to fulfill the Prediction without significant danger, to my knowledge they haven't done anything about the air attack that was going to happen anyway. Rigging the current attack makes it possible to avert a hostile attack but doesn't preclude that from happening.

That is, unless the original attack was going to be Numloch hiring Charlie, and he set up an elaborate gambit to get paid twice and not take casualties. That seems very much his style.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Xarx » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:27 am

Mrtyuh wrote:Just to put things into perspective, Charlie, at the time of the Battle of Spacerock was offering over 9,000 schmuckers for the safe release of captured archons.

Not exactly. This may be a quibble, but the bounty was not for the release of captured archons; rather it was for the capture of turned (ie decrypted) archons.

It seems likely that Charlie would be very anxious to examine a decrypted archon for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with freeing her. At the very least he'd want to know which of his secrets had been compromised. He'd also hope to learn more about the decrypted, looking for ways to exploit weaknesses, turn them against Wanda, etc.

Failing capture, he was still offering a reward for killing them, remember. My point is that the 9000 schmuckers is probably way more than he'd offer for the release of a garden-variety archon.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby GWvsJohn » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:30 am

(name here) wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the unpaid balance of the penalty hangs around and covering it has priority over upkeep. But deliberately sacrificing his Archons does not seem to be Charlie's style. He's fairly protective of them, and it's clear keeping them around is a long-term profit. Plus, given the effectiveness of their Foolamancy, a number of these Archons must be quite high level and difficult to replace. It's looking like he plans to play this one straight. Now, Creen might notice that this was entirely too easy, but it's easy enough to explain that: Archons have Foolamancy, so they made a bunch of decoys and only half a dozen of them were actually real.

Right now, I'm worried Posbrake and Dove have been too clever by half. The Prediction was made before they set this up, and I don't believe they're exclusively self-fufilling; I think they'll come true in some form whether or not anyone hears about them. So while they've found a way to fulfill the Prediction without significant danger, to my knowledge they haven't done anything about the air attack that was going to happen anyway. Rigging the current attack makes it possible to avert a hostile attack but doesn't preclude that from happening.

That is, unless the original attack was going to be Numloch hiring Charlie, and he set up an elaborate gambit to get paid twice and not take casualties. That seems very much his style.


Unless Fate knew that Posbrake would hire a Predictamancer, learn about the attack and set up the ruse accordingly. This the prophecy is fulfilled and Fate doesn't need to nudge anyone else toward fulfilling it.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby spriteless » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:56 pm

Maybe fate is setting up Posbrake to trust predictions, and he's choosing an easier way than Wanda did.
T'was a splendidly speedy defection.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Mrtyuh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Xarx wrote:Not exactly. This may be a quibble, but the bounty was not for the release of captured archons; rather it was for the capture of turned (ie decrypted) archons.

Actually, I was referring to this:

Glowering, Prince Sammy paced around the dirt road in a semicircle around her.

"What's Charlie giving for the release of a captured Archon lately?" he snarled. "What're you worth, huh?"

Hilary's left leg was broken below the knee. This and her other injuries left her in a heap on the ground. She had not been wounded in the fight. When the arrows began to fly and Avril fell, Hilary had unveiled, descended, and surrendered. But that was not good enough for the Prince of Haggar.

She lifted her head and looked at him with her good eye. "Over nine thousand," she said.


I believe you are thinking of this. So, those are three different numbers. Charlie is offering over 9K for the release of his own archons, 5K for the croaking of decrypted archons and 25k for giving him a decrypted archon to study.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Xarx » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:16 pm

Ah yes, my mistake.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Mrtyuh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:01 pm

No worries. I should have provided the link originally. Prince Sammy and Haggar played such a small part so long ago, it's easy to forget about them. I should have realized that people might confuse it with the bounty Charlie was placing on decrypted archons.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby Lamech » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:47 pm

(name here) wrote:
That is, unless the original attack was going to be Numloch hiring Charlie, and he set up an elaborate gambit to get paid twice and not take casualties. That seems very much his style.
Or this is just icing on the cake. After the contract ends he'll attack the (now with less air defense) homekey.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby auraseer » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:50 pm

Was anyone else surprised that Digdoug still has a headache when the battle starts?

Everything else gets healed at dawn, but it looks like hangovers are special.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 16

Postby GWvsJohn » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:11 pm

auraseer wrote:Was anyone else surprised that Digdoug still has a headache when the battle starts?

Everything else gets healed at dawn, but it looks like hangovers are special.


Everything gets healed at the start of turn.
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