Digdoug - Episode 17

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby konmanrocks » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:11 pm

I get the feeling the the king is about to be replaced by his brother. I dont know if the mechanics of erfworld support it, but from what creen said, thats what i pictured.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lilwik » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:20 pm

Deo wrote:What if Dove was indeed in league with Charlie but went off-script with the spell on the King?
There's no doubt that Dove is in league with Charlie, since Dove is the one who actually hired Charlie as part of this whole plan. The thing we don't know is how far Dove's plans go and whether they all work out in Charlie's favor. She's getting paid by Charlie for at least brokering the deal, but she's also getting paid by Homekey, which gives her a conflict of interests. I think the best outcome for her would be to have both Charlie and Homekey win so that they both want to hire her again. If Dove has her way, Delkey will be the biggest loser. I don't see how Dove might arrange that, but I expect she would if she could.

Gathrun wrote:And that's why they were pushing for an heir to be popped. But how now to have someone else take over a side without destroying it?
I'm pretty sure they did that because they're royalists and wanted Posbrake to have a prince for a chief warlord. The fact that Posbrake repeatedly promotes commoners to chief warlord is much of the reason they are doing this.

Denar wrote:I wonder why he ordered the archery attack on the Archons? He must want all the assistance from Charliescomm he can get for his turn, and pissing off Charlie by attacking his Archons doesn't really strike me as the best way of going about it...
Charlie must have told Delkey about the plan for the fake battle, otherwise the whole situation would make no sense. Delkey would want to know why Charlie was planning to attack Homekey and lose in the morning and then attack Homekey again in the afternoon. It's bizarre. If Delkey knew about the fake battle, then Delkey's archers weren't really shooting the archons; it was just more Foolamancy, just to keep Posbrake from becoming suspicious while he wasted all the air defenses.

Keldaria wrote:I thought it was impossible to drop alliance and attack that side in the same turn, meaning that unless their alliance agreement allowed specifically for them to attack units of the alliance under certain conditions then it "Should" be impossible to force a transfer in power with anything other than the threat of a battle next turn.
That's not a rule of alliances in general. Based on B1P139, Jillian could have broken her alliance with Transylvito at any moment if she decided someone needed stabbing.

Keldaria wrote:They dropped the last 2 flying units that could transport things (I assume they were the last 2). If I had to guess I'd say that was done to prevent escape options from the battle next turn.
There are no escape options for Homekey on Delkey's turn. I expect they were just eliminating air defenses. Those hippo-crates would be a lot more dangerous when fighting for real.

Keldaria wrote:The majority of the air defenses and all of digdougs spells might be gone but the arcons used a lot of foolamancy too.. I'd wager that they were low on resources too, they could still cause damage were combat to resume this turn but if they weren't able to seize the garrison before then I don't see it happening now.
As far as Charlie knows, Homekey has just lost practically all of its air defenses, so the next battle will be a walk in the park. No more hippo-crates, no more Delkey archers, and the Homekey archers are bound to be busy fighting Delkey's attack from within.

Whispri wrote:The big question is who's first in the turn order, Homekey or Delkey?
Delkey must be first in the natural turn order. Just think of what would happen if Homekey were first. Delkey would be in a horrible position. It's units wouldn't be able to move between city zones and it wouldn't have any backup from Charlie while Homekey's ground troops roamed the halls executing all Delkey units. This is one of those situations where the natural turn order makes a huge strategic difference, since I don't see any way this plan could work if Homekey's turn comes before Delkey's turn.

Whispri wrote:On three, I fear the Archons may just 'refresh' once Delkey's turn starts, while the tower spells are gone. Also they represented the work of many turns, rather than a single turn's resources.
I seriously doubt that a side can get its start-of-turn more than once a day, and Charlie clearly had his turn start once already when Numloch's turn started.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Godzfirefly » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:55 pm

Another possibility, Creen might have performed the negotiation for this backstab of Homekey on his own during the course of this battle. If so, Creen might not know that Homekey's units are basically undamaged, since Archons don't warn their allies about Foolamancy traps unless that service is paid for. After all, the details could have been worked out via Archon Thinkamancy, and a Chief Warlord probably has enough authority to speak for his Side in such negotiations, especially if Thinkamancy can let them confirm the deal with the ruler. Creen may be as opportunistic as Charlie, in that sense. And, given the forces facing him, it may be Creen's last sniff of the snuff-box as a result. I mean in this theory, Homekey has lightning trap, pitfall trap, Carnymancer (who doesn't get paid if her solution doesn't work, and Rule #1 is always get paid,) and Charlie's foolamancy upon their units making them look worse than they are, all without Creen's knowledge.

youngstormlord wrote:Also, a horrible random thought: There's no Home key on most modern laptops. Only Del key :D

Umm, I just went laptop shopping across a variety of stores only a month ago...I didn't see a single laptop keyboard that was missing the Home key. It's waaaay too useful a key to drop. (Though, different laptops might arrange those keys differently and even relegate the Home Key to share a key with another function.)
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby jeffseadot » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:20 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:Umm, I just went laptop shopping across a variety of stores only a month ago...I didn't see a single laptop keyboard that was missing the Home key. It's waaaay too useful a key to drop. (Though, different laptops might arrange those keys differently and even relegate the Home Key to share a key with another function.)


I've never used my home key. I pressed it just now, to see what it'd do.
Spoiler: show
it took me to the top of the page
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Kornaki » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 pm

jeffseadot wrote:
Godzfirefly wrote:Umm, I just went laptop shopping across a variety of stores only a month ago...I didn't see a single laptop keyboard that was missing the Home key. It's waaaay too useful a key to drop. (Though, different laptops might arrange those keys differently and even relegate the Home Key to share a key with another function.)


I've never used my home key. I pressed it just now, to see what it'd do.
Spoiler: show
it took me to the top of the page

That is in fact the point. It's the opposite of the end key (which takes you to the bottom). Home is referring to the place that you started on the page (I am not an expert on the etymology of the key name so that might not actually be true :roll: )
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby hehehe426 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:36 pm

my my
look at all this serious discussion
and here i am to point out what is obviously the most serious and important part of this chapter that must be seriously considered
LIGHTSABER
v serious
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby GWvsJohn » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:59 pm

Didn't Creen show his hand a little early? Why wouldn't Posbrake just attack Creen right now? Sure Deleky has a few stacks of Archers, but from what we've seen a strong stack with Posbrake, Peck, Digdoug and the Golems should rip right through it. Should t Posbrake just attack right now and take Creen prisoner?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Godzfirefly » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:03 pm

I use the Home Key on a daily basis, at the minimum. In addition to sending you to the top of the page (which is nice with long forum pages and news articles where you want to get to the links at the top) when you press the Home Key from inside a text box it sends you to the beginning of the line (which is nice for editing code into text.) For someone that lurks through forums regularly, they are invaluable.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lilwik » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:49 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:Didn't Creen show his hand a little early? Why wouldn't Posbrake just attack Creen right now? Sure Deleky has a few stacks of Archers, but from what we've seen a strong stack with Posbrake, Peck, Digdoug and the Golems should rip right through it. Shouldn't Posbrake just attack right now and take Creen prisoner?
When you put it that way, it seems clear that they could do that, but it's far less clear that it would be a winning move. Taking away Delkey's chief warlord would be a wound to Delkey but it wouldn't defeat Delkey. The archons would still come back and without air defenses Homekey would still be destroyed, so attacking Creen now might be nothing more than a useless gesture, and I expect that Creen would be able to kill several people with that fancy sword before he could be taken.

It's possible that the only hope that Homekey has for survival is in talking to Creen. The fact that Creen has explained his plan suggests that he wants to gloat, so it might be possible for Posbrake to think his way out of this situation and say something that turns this all around.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lamech » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:02 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:Didn't Creen show his hand a little early? Why wouldn't Posbrake just attack Creen right now? Sure Deleky has a few stacks of Archers, but from what we've seen a strong stack with Posbrake, Peck, Digdoug and the Golems should rip right through it. Should t Posbrake just attack right now and take Creen prisoner?

They have a clear line of fire with multiple stacks of archers directly at the king. As far as Prince Creen knows this is check mate. Of course the archers and captains are about to fall into a pit trap and he's about to get blasted by lightning as soon as he takes to the sky.

So Charlie is getting paid by Num Loc, Homekey and Delkey for his help in various areas. And notice how he did exactly what the contract told him too! I will say though he did break the spirit of the contracts towards both Num Loc and Homekey. I wonder how Delkey is getting screwed?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby cheeseaholic » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:16 pm

Lamech wrote:
GWvsJohn wrote:Didn't Creen show his hand a little early? Why wouldn't Posbrake just attack Creen right now? Sure Deleky has a few stacks of Archers, but from what we've seen a strong stack with Posbrake, Peck, Digdoug and the Golems should rip right through it. Should t Posbrake just attack right now and take Creen prisoner?

They have a clear line of fire with multiple stacks of archers directly at the king. As far as Prince Creen knows this is check mate. Of course the archers and captains are about to fall into a pit trap and he's about to get blasted by lightning as soon as he takes to the sky.

So Charlie is getting paid by Num Loc, Homekey and Delkey for his help in various areas. And notice how he did exactly what the contract told him too! I will say though he did break the spirit of the contracts towards both Num Loc and Homekey. I wonder how Delkey is getting screwed?


I don't think that Delkey's been screwed. Yet, anyway. If Num Loc wins this though, Charlie isn't all that far from the Homekey capitol.



I don't see how killing the king wins the battle. Won't the rest of the troops still be hostile? Creen's gonna get torn apart no matter what happens. The rest of the cities they could just tell the king got killed by mercenaries or whatever, but I don't think that that will work where they are now. Or will Charlie just return once they make the city neutral? I actually thought he'd do his fake fight then return once that contract had ended - possibly on the same turn. Maybe that was too expensive to hire out though. That is a lot of archons after all.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby victor227 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:18 pm

Not like Posbrake can exactly complain about people violating the 'spirit' of a contract. As that's pretty much what he did. Completely.

But yeah, Say what you will about Delkey, they're never afraid to show off the bling. A gold-hilted rapier-Lightsaber.

All's not totally lost though! Posbrake still has all of Numloch's turn remaining before Charlie can move his Archons back on the city as allies, and Creen is heavily outnumbered and pretty much relying on the threat of croaking Posbrake. If he is immune to ranged attacks, he could reasonably retreat back to the golem stack, and Creen and his archers would be in a bad spot if they broke alliance.

But yeah, Posbrake's negotiating powers seem centered right now entirely on what he brings to the table. This whole shindig was definitely stupid from an outside perspective, hiring a mercenary to attack yourself. Likewise, if they know about that, they know that the books are fudged. Right now there's a serious trust issue between Delkey and Homekey, but there may still be a peaceful way out. If Homekey falls, it'll be a scramble between Numloch and Delkey to pick up the pieces, and I doubt Creen is totally confident that Delkey can win that race and come out ahead.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lamech » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:56 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:
Lamech wrote:
GWvsJohn wrote:Didn't Creen show his hand a little early? Why wouldn't Posbrake just attack Creen right now? Sure Deleky has a few stacks of Archers, but from what we've seen a strong stack with Posbrake, Peck, Digdoug and the Golems should rip right through it. Should t Posbrake just attack right now and take Creen prisoner?

They have a clear line of fire with multiple stacks of archers directly at the king. As far as Prince Creen knows this is check mate. Of course the archers and captains are about to fall into a pit trap and he's about to get blasted by lightning as soon as he takes to the sky.

So Charlie is getting paid by Num Loc, Homekey and Delkey for his help in various areas. And notice how he did exactly what the contract told him too! I will say though he did break the spirit of the contracts towards both Num Loc and Homekey. I wonder how Delkey is getting screwed?


I don't think that Delkey's been screwed. Yet, anyway. If Num Loc wins this though, Charlie isn't all that far from the Homekey capitol.



I don't see how killing the king wins the battle. Won't the rest of the troops still be hostile? Creen's gonna get torn apart no matter what happens. The rest of the cities they could just tell the king got killed by mercenaries or whatever, but I don't think that that will work where they are now. Or will Charlie just return once they make the city neutral? I actually thought he'd do his fake fight then return once that contract had ended - possibly on the same turn. Maybe that was too expensive to hire out though. That is a lot of archons after all.
Units are required to act in their rulers best interest. Thus, Creen believes no one will act against him with the King hostage. Killing the King might mean Prince Creen is ripped to pieces, but it would mean the king dies and hence, they cannot strike. In effect, Checkmate. Even if you have 5 queens on the field against the other player has a pawn and a king, you can still lose.

Also Prince Creen might think they can win the fight after croaking the king. A few badly damaged golems, a caster, and a warlord (out of position) against his captains, archers and a royal warlord with a fancy sword. When he finds that the golems are more or less intact and his captains and archers have mysteriously turned into a pit of Lava, and this lightning bolt is shooting out of no where at him... well he'll probably realize his mistake.

P.S. It would be a good idea to activate the magic trap now. If Prince Creen breaks alliance he'll get a lightning bolt to the face.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby GWvsJohn » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:51 pm

Posbrake's best move is to capture Creen and use him as a chip to get Homekey tocall off the attack.

I also think Dove is going to come back into play and help Delkey against Charlie. And the moral of the story is going to be that Charlie isn't as all powerful as he'd like you to believe.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lamech » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:29 pm

Pretty sure Charlie is going to make bank on this. He completed the contract for Num Loc (attack Homekey), the contract for Homekey (burn the prediction) and is in the process of fulfilling the contract for Del Key (oversee power transfer.)
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Squishalot » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:36 pm

Has it occurred to anyone that the specifics of the battle plan (e.g. withdrawing after X shots) weren't part of the contract, unlike the Foolamancy effects? That seems somewhat strange to me...
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Xarx » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:37 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:And the moral of the story is going to be that Charlie isn't as all powerful as he'd like you to believe.

Charlie doesn't care who prevails. He's there to fulfill his contracts, get paid, and go home. If he can squeeze a few more schmuckers out of one side or another by playing them against each other, so much the better. It isn't a question of power, it's a matter of rigging the game so that he wins no matter what.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby 0beron » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:47 pm

Hmmmmm, so I have a few thoughts, though I think a few of them have been touched on already.
Who had a contract first, and how deep does the plot go?
  • Was Posbroke being played from the beginning, and Charlie offering his service was actually all part of Creen's plan in the first place?
  • Did Creen suspect something was up on his arrival and made a deal with Charlie right then? Or perhaps Count Dinero was able to notice the "show" in the books and Creen started plotting then?
  • Is Dove in on this to any degree, or just a coincidence?
What exactly is Creen trying to pull here? Is this a takeover with his father's permission, or is this sibling rivalry driven to a coup of sorts? Rather than overthrow his father, he's rebelling and taking over his brother? Could work off the same mechanic that allows for a coup if that's the case.

But most importantly, regardless of the details and reasons, we once again see Royals doing the proud thing rather than the smart thing. With Homekey in place, Delkey has a nice friendly buffer on their flank to protect them. Especially so with Posbroke's strategy! If anyone wants to attack Delkey from that direction, they'll have to plow through Homekey yet get little money from razing the cities because they're technically low level. So it is literally the very best possible situation for Delkey to leave Homekey exactly as they are! But no, they're pissed off by his attitude so they're ready to throw away the entire advantage.

Which brings me to a related point that's very relevant to the ongoing debate about the nature of Royalty that's been inspired by the main story. I think Posbroke and this story arc are proving to us very clearly that there are indeed WONDERFUL Royals, and that popping as a Royal doesn't make you inherently elitist and immoral. Rather, it is a matter of chance mixed with upbringing. Compounded by the fact that the "good" ones get exterminated by the "bad" ones.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lipkin » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:37 am

It certainly seems like Delkey wanted Homekey to pop a royal heir so that they could remove Posbrake from power, but keep the alliance. I suspect Creen may demand that the entire side of Homekey turn to Delkey, or else Posbrake gets croaked on the spot. But I'm thinking Charlie didn't tell him what Homekey has up it's sleeve, so Charlie won't get a chance to attack, because the action will be over before turn's end. Or else Charlie will attack, and either Dove didn't tell him about the Lightning Trap and he gets chased off, or Dove DID tell him about the lightning trap, and they disable it. OR Dove faked the lightning trap.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 17

Postby Lamech » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:46 am

Lipkin wrote:It certainly seems like Delkey wanted Homekey to pop a royal heir so that they could remove Posbrake from power, but keep the alliance. I suspect Creen may demand that the entire side of Homekey turn to Delkey, or else Posbrake gets croaked on the spot. But I'm thinking Charlie didn't tell him what Homekey has up it's sleeve, so Charlie won't get a chance to attack, because the action will be over before turn's end. Or else Charlie will attack, and either Dove didn't tell him about the Lightning Trap and he gets chased off, or Dove DID tell him about the lightning trap, and they disable it. OR Dove faked the lightning trap.

I think Charlie has those archons ready to help the second Prince Creen asks for them. And if Prince Creen has a sudden case of lightning bolt induced croaking well... that's his fault. Probably should have paid for magical protection.
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