Digdoug - Episode 19

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby s-dub » Tue May 06, 2014 9:37 pm

My guess is that Charlie got paid yet again. With unlimited thinkagrams, any combination of jobs is possible.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue May 06, 2014 9:41 pm

Keighvin1 wrote:It's possible that Posbreak just wanted to try to save someone from his side and the only one he could was DigDoug. Assuming his incapacitation was of a kind that would croak at turn's end, Posbreak could have feared that Delkey would end turn suddenly, which would end the side and trap all the units in the city.


It makes me wonder if Posbreak pulled a Queen Bea on us...

But, if Posbreak knew he was sending Digdoug into the MK to avoid croaking with Homekey, why wouldn't he have given something to cover upkeep for at least a little bit?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Sir Shadow » Tue May 06, 2014 11:00 pm

I'm... actually kind of disappointed. I don't want to be told what happened after they fell in a trap second hand... There must be a twist or reveal coming after this because otherwise, because I don't see any reason to handle the transition like this.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Wed May 07, 2014 12:43 am

Sir Shadow wrote:I'm... actually kind of disappointed. I don't want to be told what happened after they fell in a trap second hand... There must be a twist or reveal coming after this because otherwise, because I don't see any reason to handle the transition like this.



And Posbreak being the ressourcefull character we know certainly found an exploit somewhere... maybe he razed his capital himself (thus ending his sides and all contracts attached to it) for some yet unfathomable reason just to rebuild it next turn?
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lilwik » Wed May 07, 2014 1:13 am

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:And Posbrake being the resourceful character we know certainly found an exploit somewhere... maybe he razed his capital himself (thus ending his sides and all contracts attached to it) for some yet unfathomable reason just to rebuild it next turn?
Posbrake has demonstrated enough cleverness that no plan would seem too clever for him, but we know that razing the capital wouldn't end the side from Book 0 when Faq continued on even without its capital. Unfortunately it seems that Posbrake is either dead or abdicated or turned, because loss of the ruler is the only thing we know that can end a side.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Wed May 07, 2014 2:23 am

Lilwik wrote:
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:And Posbrake being the resourceful character we know certainly found an exploit somewhere... maybe he razed his capital himself (thus ending his sides and all contracts attached to it) for some yet unfathomable reason just to rebuild it next turn?
Posbrake has demonstrated enough cleverness that no plan would seem too clever for him, but we know that razing the capital wouldn't end the side from Book 0 when Faq continued on even without its capital. Unfortunately it seems that Posbrake is either dead or abdicated or turned, because loss of the ruler is the only thing we know that can end a side.


Well, this is certainly true, but without a capital the portal would be closed and maybe a severed connexion like that is enough to force a caster to fend for himself. But thats a stretch, I assume you are right and that something terribly wrong happenned although I still hope posbreak survived somehow. (maybe as a prisonner?)
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby wreeee » Wed May 07, 2014 2:26 am

Godzfirefly wrote:
Keighvin1 wrote:It's possible that Posbreak just wanted to try to save someone from his side and the only one he could was DigDoug. Assuming his incapacitation was of a kind that would croak at turn's end, Posbreak could have feared that Delkey would end turn suddenly, which would end the side and trap all the units in the city.


It makes me wonder if Posbreak pulled a Queen Bea on us...

But, if Posbreak knew he was sending Digdoug into the MK to avoid croaking with Homekey, why wouldn't he have given something to cover upkeep for at least a little bit?

Why would he? Queen Bea did what she did to deny Gobwin Knob more bodies for Decrypted troops.

Yes, this is an important point. I don't think he expected whatever happened to happen, unless he was reasonably certain that Dove would pay DigDoug's upkeep — and even then, it would mean he had to hide it from both of his casters for whatever reason.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby TurtlesAWD » Wed May 07, 2014 3:03 am

Rands are the currency that the magic kingdom uses, right? Is there any info on whether those have a conversion rate to Shmuckers or whether Rands can be used for upkeep? I kind of expect/hope for a twist at this point (though I have honestly no idea what it could be) but if Digdoug is really a barbarian caster now, how feasible would it be for him to maintain his upkeep in the magic kingdom alone without finding work from an actual side? We do know that dirtamancers are well trusted/liked in the magic kingdom, but how does that translate to upkeep management?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Gamer » Wed May 07, 2014 3:12 am

Charlie is in the airspace, and there is a 300k reward on Posbrake's head. Is it really that difficult to guess what happened?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 07, 2014 3:24 am

TurtlesAWD wrote:Rands are the currency that the magic kingdom uses, right? Is there any info on whether those have a conversion rate to Shmuckers or whether Rands can be used for upkeep? I kind of expect/hope for a twist at this point (though I have honestly no idea what it could be) but if Digdoug is really a barbarian caster now, how feasible would it be for him to maintain his upkeep in the magic kingdom alone without finding work from an actual side? We do know that dirtamancers are well trusted/liked in the magic kingdom, but how does that translate to upkeep management?

I assume one would simply pay rands to a moneymancer to solve that sort of issue. They wouldn't turn rands into smuckers with magic, but rather they would be paid for their services in rands, like any other caster in the MK.

And I would think it would be fairly feasible for him to survive on MK work. It's just that finding work during the night, in a place you've only been once before, while being fairly wounded, is a tricky bit of business.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby M.A.D » Wed May 07, 2014 3:39 am

If Postbrake had asked Dove to take DD to the MK, he should have given her enough money to get him fully healed, and then some more for the Healomancer to make a house-call for himself and possibly his brother. Instead, DD has only just passed the point of not dying. There are three ways that this can be interpreted.

One, DD was taken there in the previous turn, and Dove had had to deduce his upkeep from the hospitality bill.
Two, Dove skimmed off the top of his bill, but then felt guilty after seeing him like this so she's paying for his food now.
Three, Dove betrayed Postbrake and the side fell while DD was still there. She brought DD out of there (Either out of her free will or at Postbrake's final request), but changed the story a bit so DD wouldn't suspect her.

Lipkin wrote:She also was getting food as part of her deal though, so that brought her cost down.


The way I read it, her food bill IS her upkeep. When she said that they'd be feeding her, that means she wants her upkeep to be paid, and the amount to be paid was going to be 75 Schmuckers per turn.

TurtlesAWD wrote:Rands are the currency that the magic kingdom uses, right? Is there any info on whether those have a conversion rate to Shmuckers or whether Rands can be used for upkeep? I kind of expect/hope for a twist at this point (though I have honestly no idea what it could be) but if Digdoug is really a barbarian caster now, how feasible would it be for him to maintain his upkeep in the magic kingdom alone without finding work from an actual side? We do know that dirtamancers are well trusted/liked in the magic kingdom, but how does that translate to upkeep management?


If dirtamancers are liked in the magic kingdom, I suppose that means there's a demand for them, so Digdoug might very well be able to find a job in the morning.

One thing I find interesting. Normal people could probably go on without eating for a few days, but it seems from this update that units must have their upkeep paid at the beginning of turns, or they'd immediately disband. Also since Dove had offered to pay his upkeep, I wonder if DD can commit suicide by not paying his upkeep, or that amount is automatically deduced. Better yet, can any units commit suicide by not paying their upkeep, even though that upkeep is automatically paid from their ruler's treasury or their purse.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 07, 2014 4:42 am

M.A.D wrote:If Postbrake had asked Dove to take DD to the MK, he should have given her enough money to get him fully healed, and then some more for the Healomancer to make a house-call for himself and possibly his brother. Instead, DD has only just passed the point of not dying. There are three ways that this can be interpreted.

One, DD was taken there in the previous turn, and Dove had had to deduce his upkeep from the hospitality bill.
Two, Dove skimmed off the top of his bill, but then felt guilty after seeing him like this so she's paying for his food now.
Three, Dove betrayed Postbrake and the side fell while DD was still there. She brought DD out of there (Either out of her free will or at Postbrake's final request), but changed the story a bit so DD wouldn't suspect her.

Lipkin wrote:She also was getting food as part of her deal though, so that brought her cost down.


The way I read it, her food bill IS her upkeep. When she said that they'd be feeding her, that means she wants her upkeep to be paid, and the amount to be paid was going to be 75 Schmuckers per turn.

TurtlesAWD wrote:Rands are the currency that the magic kingdom uses, right? Is there any info on whether those have a conversion rate to Shmuckers or whether Rands can be used for upkeep? I kind of expect/hope for a twist at this point (though I have honestly no idea what it could be) but if Digdoug is really a barbarian caster now, how feasible would it be for him to maintain his upkeep in the magic kingdom alone without finding work from an actual side? We do know that dirtamancers are well trusted/liked in the magic kingdom, but how does that translate to upkeep management?


If dirtamancers are liked in the magic kingdom, I suppose that means there's a demand for them, so Digdoug might very well be able to find a job in the morning.

One thing I find interesting. Normal people could probably go on without eating for a few days, but it seems from this update that units must have their upkeep paid at the beginning of turns, or they'd immediately disband. Also since Dove had offered to pay his upkeep, I wonder if DD can commit suicide by not paying his upkeep, or that amount is automatically deduced. Better yet, can any units commit suicide by not paying their upkeep, even though that upkeep is automatically paid from their ruler's treasury or their purse.

There are a lot more ways than three that it can be taken. And upkeep is not the same thing as food. Parson isn't eating over a thousand smuckers worth of food a day, for example. Upkeep must be paid daily, and eating cannot entirely replace that. Failure to pay upkeep immediately disbands you, whereas starving does not.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lilwik » Wed May 07, 2014 5:01 am

Lipkin wrote:And upkeep is not the same thing as food. Parson isn't eating over a thousand shmuckers worth of food a day, for example.
He might eat that much. We don't really know what a thousand shmuckers worth of food would look like, and Parson is certainly large enough to eat a large amount of food relative to an average Erfworlder.

Lipkin wrote:Upkeep must be paid daily, and eating cannot entirely replace that. Failure to pay upkeep immediately disbands you, whereas starving does not.
Where do we know that from? Consider B0E45 where it says: "For one thing, she was now on her own for upkeep. And she had no purse, like a barbarian would have. So besides escape and evasion, she had her mind on foraging. If she couldn’t hunt or forage enough for a meal, then her move would drop to zero, the chains would reappear, and she would become a captive again." That is a bit of a strange situation in that if she doesn't get her upkeep she becomes a prisoner instead of disbanding, but even so it's clear that she is eating her upkeep, with no shmuckers involved.

In this episode of Digdoug we are told that eating would reduce the amount of shmuckers Digdoug needed for upkeep. Assuming that is true, what reason do we have to suspect that he couldn't keep eating until he needed 0 shmuckers?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 07, 2014 7:07 am

She leaned in a bit, and Digdoug struggled to keep his gaze above her chin. “You need your books cooked. That is definitely Carnymancy. Hire me tonight, and if their Moneymancer goes away satisfied tomorrow, I’ll take five hundred off the top, plus food and upkeep for two days. Deal?”

If food and upkeep were the same thing, why would she distinguish them? She could have just said food, or upkeep.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby kiyote » Wed May 07, 2014 7:55 am

Lipkin wrote:She leaned in a bit, and Digdoug struggled to keep his gaze above her chin. “You need your books cooked. That is definitely Carnymancy. Hire me tonight, and if their Moneymancer goes away satisfied tomorrow, I’ll take five hundred off the top, plus food and upkeep for two days. Deal?”

If food and upkeep were the same thing, why would she distinguish them? She could have just said food, or upkeep.


Food (provisions) reduces upkeep. Basically, she's saying they have to cover her upkeep, in any way they want, plus her fee.

Dove is also limited to the amount of payment she can accept by the size of her purse, without a Moneymancer to convert her fees to gems.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby GWvsJohn » Wed May 07, 2014 7:56 am

Lipkin wrote:She leaned in a bit, and Digdoug struggled to keep his gaze above her chin. “You need your books cooked. That is definitely Carnymancy. Hire me tonight, and if their Moneymancer goes away satisfied tomorrow, I’ll take five hundred off the top, plus food and upkeep for two days. Deal?”

If food and upkeep were the same thing, why would she distinguish them? She could have just said food, or upkeep.


Maybe that's an idiomatic expression in Erfworld. We know with 100% certainty that good can cover your entire upkeep from when Jillian was a fugitive.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 07, 2014 8:17 am

GWvsJohn wrote:
Lipkin wrote:She leaned in a bit, and Digdoug struggled to keep his gaze above her chin. “You need your books cooked. That is definitely Carnymancy. Hire me tonight, and if their Moneymancer goes away satisfied tomorrow, I’ll take five hundred off the top, plus food and upkeep for two days. Deal?”

If food and upkeep were the same thing, why would she distinguish them? She could have just said food, or upkeep.


Maybe that's an idiomatic expression in Erfworld. We know with 100% certainty that good can cover your entire upkeep from when Jillian was a fugitive.

We know it can cover her upkeep when she's a fugitive. As a prisoner, her upkeep was covered by Haffaton. As a barbarian, her upkeep comes from her purse. As a fugitive, she has no purse (not that it is 0. She has none.) and she has to scavenge. That doesn't mean her upkeep isn't still being covered by her former captors, unless it was stated otherwise and I'm forgetting.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Lilwik » Wed May 07, 2014 8:54 am

Lipkin wrote:As a fugitive, she has no purse (not that it is 0. She has none.) and she has to scavenge. That doesn't mean her upkeep isn't still being covered by her former captors, unless it was stated otherwise and I'm forgetting.
That would either mean that her former captors can disband her at any time by stopping her upkeep payments, or that her former captors are forced to pay her upkeep even against their will. Either way seems like a very awkward rule. I find it far more plausible that her upkeep is reduced to only food while she is a fugitive as part of a mechanism for giving her a fair chance to escape.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby 0beron » Wed May 07, 2014 9:46 am

TurtlesAWD wrote:Rands are the currency that the magic kingdom uses, right? Is there any info on whether those have a conversion rate to Shmuckers or whether Rands can be used for upkeep? I kind of expect/hope for a twist at this point (though I have honestly no idea what it could be) but if Digdoug is really a barbarian caster now, how feasible would it be for him to maintain his upkeep in the magic kingdom alone without finding work from an actual side? We do know that dirtamancers are well trusted/liked in the magic kingdom, but how does that translate to upkeep management?
We know that if need be, commanders can go entirely without upkeep, surviving solely on food. So I assume Rands are used to purchase food from Florists/Stuffamancers, or from casters who are manually farming/foraging.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 19

Postby Mikalyaran » Wed May 07, 2014 9:50 am

Simplest answer here is that Charlie wanted his 300k. Once it became a war situation and not an "Orderly transfer of power" that became another way to get paid and I'd bet he was hoping it would go that way for that exact reason. Homekey's CWL was dead so the Archons with Charlie's bonus' wouldn't have had a tough time killing any ground troops that were in the way. Then it was just a matter of finding Posbrake in the city and killing him. This also means rescuing Creen for Delkey and all of Homekey's cities going Barbarian. So now DelKey and Numloch are at war with each other with a bunch of barbarian cities frozen around them to be claimed and a powerful group of mercenaries who neither side can afford not to hire. Its also a good moment for the third side which was mentioned earlier in the story (Pagebreak?) to make a move and gain some territory. Pretty cherry situation for Charlie and right in line with what we know of Charlie's rules.
Last edited by Mikalyaran on Wed May 07, 2014 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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