Summer Updates - 049

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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Sieggy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:11 pm

A few random thoughts:

Is it possible that the qualities of an Arkentool match the person to whom it's attuned? It doesn't have a set, defined number of special functions a la Rod of Lordly Might, but rather matches the characteristics of the wielder? Stanley is a dimbulb rocker, so it amplifies those characteristics. Wanda is a croakamancer par excellence, so it gives her decrypt capabilities. But in either case, the Tools seem to have a basic 'Loyalty' function that would seem almost deistic in nature.

It may be possible that the gobwins / hobgobwins are being used both as scouts (laying out the lines of travel for the Dwagon Express), as well as covertly cutting tunnels into GK that can be used later for infiltration / assassination.

I think Jillian's approach to battle is fast & fluid, and considers infantry to be too slow to be of use, other than in a defensive posture. The giants would make great defensive troops, especially if holding buffer cities. That would account for why she's concentrated on airborne and command units.

I wonder if the Archons can teleport, or Charlie can teleport them . . .when Charlie was hired by the RCC in Book 1, there didn't appear to be any time lapse between Charlie ordering the Archons into action and their arrival. Same thing when all of a sudden GK was up to its neck in Archons after Parson let Charlie know what forces he needed to take GK. If this is the case, though, they SHOULD have been able to escape when GK went nuclear . . . unless they can be dispatched from Charlescomm HQ via some kind of gate. If so, Jillian & company could lay in wait, and when the target appears, notify Charlie, who could then dispatch overwhelming firepower in support. Of course, if he does so, it sort of tips his hand . . .

Given Stanley's attitude towards Charlie, what is his reaction going to be when he finds out Parson has been in communications with him? If he was taken for a ride by Charlie before, he knows firsthand how treacherous Charlie can be, and may suspect Parson of colluding with Charlie.

How long will it be before Caesar decides to whack Don King 'for the good of TV'? Since TV has a 'Sopranos' type of theme to it, it would be entirely in keeping with that mindset.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:13 pm

GK has better defences, more manpower (well, not Manpower, but still...), more dragons, and more money now than they did before 3000+ troops marched on it in the first book.
It would be foolish to directly assault it again, at least right now.

However, Charlie knows something about Wanda's & Jill's relationship - his 3 archons were there when Jillian broke the first mind control.
I'm guessing he's using Jillian as bait to try to draw Wanda into a trap, away from GK and from the main body of her troops.

Give Jillian enough power that she's a viable threat, and plant her close enough to GK that she's a concern, and Wanda flies to to "handle" her.
She may even peel off enough air defense from GK to make it vulnerable as well.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Donoterase » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:17 pm

Point. Although, on the gripping hand, he didn't use a smiley.


Dang, Ros. I hate to argue with you. I really do. But I want a dollar everytime anyone says "obviously" on these boards. Along the same vein, Charlie did not black-and-white say he hates Parson. He asked a rhetorical question about Parson's banter.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:23 pm

Chemical wrote:Very little speculation on what is the goal of the mission. IMO this attack is not against the GK (Vinnie, Charlie and Jillian know how tough the city is) but attempt to capture Prince Ansom while he is riding the dragon express.

Excellent theory. Parson was concerned with losing Stanley in an ambush while dwagon-hunting, so they send archons along...think they use the same strategy with the mount relay, or have they gotten sloppy?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:24 pm

HandofShadows wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And Stanley still has Jack. It would probably, if it ever came down to it, be far easier for him to escape GK with Jack's help then it was escaping the TV/Jillian ambush. Although with Archon magical detection assistance it might not be so easy.


Charlie has to keep his involvement with Jillian very quite. So it's unlikely Archons will be around. And Jack is a Master Class Foolamancer and VERY good at his job. He might even be able to fool the Archons for a time.


True, I was just speculating on the idea Stanley could be somehow pinned down in GK (which would surely take a lot more then just what Jillian has built up).

Sieggy wrote:I wonder if the Archons can teleport, or Charlie can teleport them . . .when Charlie was hired by the RCC in Book 1, there didn't appear to be any time lapse between Charlie ordering the Archons into action and their arrival. Same thing when all of a sudden GK was up to its neck in Archons after Parson let Charlie know what forces he needed to take GK. If this is the case, though, they SHOULD have been able to escape when GK went nuclear . . . unless they can be dispatched from Charlescomm HQ via some kind of gate. If so, Jillian & company could lay in wait, and when the target appears, notify Charlie, who could then dispatch overwhelming firepower in support. Of course, if he does so, it sort of tips his hand . . .


I think that was kind of addressed when Parson questioned the Archons - Charlie tries to keep some Archons in the vicinity of any hot spots or flash points in the event a side wants to hire them. Of course he might have some ability to transport them close, since they did seem to arrive awfully promptly (I mean the ones that turned up in GK airspace). And Jillian and Vinnie had assumed Charlie was going to get many Archons to their ambush on time...

As to not escaping - I guess it wasn't their turn, or if it is a gate thing it might only be one way. Charlie deploys them from his city and then they have to fly back.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby teratorn » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:27 pm

MarbitChow wrote:GK has better defences, more manpower (well, not Manpower, but still...), more dragons, and more money now than they did before 3000+ troops marched on it in the first book.


Not really. Stanley has less than 100 dwagons and Charlie probably has been popping gobwins and archons like there's no tomorrow, and probably not taking contracts in order to build a massive strike force. And then there's the talk about killing someone attuned to an arkentool, and we've learned the number of archons. A decapitation strike seems feasible.

Stanley isn't really needed anymore, except as being attuned to the hammer. Parson god of thunder?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby fjolnir » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:34 pm

This is a fairly info ridden update since we know that Faq has "Only tunnel and air access." with the lack of gobwins and gwiffons not being on the excluded ally list along with the fairly cryptic "didn't pop much infantry" while having "more than enough" even though we've only seen warlords, gwiffond and megalogwiffs popped makes me think that charlie shifted the goblins from gk's mountainous tunnel region to Faqs moutainous tunnel region.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:38 pm

fjolnir wrote:This is a fairly info ridden update since we know that Faq has "Only tunnel and air access." with the lack of gobwins and gwiffons not being on the excluded ally list along with the fairly cryptic "didn't pop much infantry" while having "more than enough" even though we've only seen warlords, gwiffond and megalogwiffs popped makes me think that charlie shifted the goblins from gk's mountainous tunnel region to Faqs moutainous tunnel region.

Hey, that's a very good point. We've been told not even fliers can make it over high peaks...unless "Mountain Units" can also make it through the gap, those giants can't even get back to FAQ.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Krennson » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:39 pm

atteSmythe wrote:
Chemical wrote:Very little speculation on what is the goal of the mission. IMO this attack is not against the GK (Vinnie, Charlie and Jillian know how tough the city is) but attempt to capture Prince Ansom while he is riding the dragon express.

Excellent theory. Parson was concerned with losing Stanley in an ambush while dwagon-hunting, so they send archons along...think they use the same strategy with the mount relay, or have they gotten sloppy?


I'd at least think that parson would vary the routes of dragons... although nodes where you switch mounts might still be vulnerable.

Can archons mount dragons? it would probably be easier to use archons for relay scouting if you're not just limited to the archons own movement....
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:40 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Thinking that Charlie pulled another natural-alliance-turning trick on the Gobwins, and made them natural allies of Jetstone? That would be fun.



I think Charlie hired a Luckamancer, and now all of GKs rolls are going against them. This could be dangerous if it applies to battles too.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby SteveMB » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:41 pm

atteSmythe wrote:Hey, that's a very good point. We've been told not even fliers can make it over high peaks...unless "Mountain Units" can also make it through the gap, those giants can't even get back to FAQ.

Maybe megalogwiffs can airlift them in. That would explain the relatively low number arriving each turn.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:41 pm

teratorn wrote:Not really. Stanley has less than 100 dwagons and Charlie probably has been popping gobwins and archons like there's no tomorrow, and probably not taking contracts in order to build a massive strike force. And then there's the talk about killing someone attuned to an arkentool, and we've learned the number of archons. A decapitation strike seems feasible.

Stanley isn't really needed anymore, except as being attuned to the hammer. Parson god of thunder?


Charlie has 1 city. He can pop, max, 3 archons / 2 turns when he has a turnamancer. So he can pop at most 75 archons after 50 turns. Charlie also isn't bringing in as much money as he was. I'm going to assume 100 archons. He would have need 28 to take GK in it's weakened condition during the Battle for GK, and that's when GK had no real airforce to speak of, and had already fired off most of their tower defenses.

Take 100 dwagons, plus the 28 decrypted archons (most of which remain at GK), plus tower defenses, plus however many decrypted and hobgobwin archers they've got.
Now factor in the 12+ cities that Stanley has been using to pop units since they've been taken.

A direct assault on GK right now is foolish. They've got to draw Stanley's troops out to another location first.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby DoctorJest » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:56 pm

Telva wrote:
Akkristor wrote:If anything, i'm guessing that Turnamancers, in addition to their personal upkeep, require a hefty Schmucker cost to speed a unit pop.

Less than perhaps taking the full amount of turns though. If popping units costs schmuckers per turn that is.


There's no reason to assume it does. In many Turn Based Strategy games (which Erf mirrors), popping a unit has both a cost and a build time but generally don't have a cost-per-turn for building a unit. You pay the cost up front to put the unit in que then wait for the build time to complete. In some games, however, you can accelerate the build time by paying alot of extra cash. I am guessing the Turnamancer is how that is modeled in Erf: reduce build time by spending Schmuckers (on the Turnamancer).

As pointed out, popping a unit early is also more expensive as it creates the unit faster thus begins incurring upkeep.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Wender » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:00 pm

Typo alert: Update has "Jillian held her sword of to the side and arched her eyebrows at the man." "Of" should be "off."

Giants appear 9 at a time, swing narrow clubs... and they switch between teams effortlessly, because they're free agents.

Oy.

Of course they let White Castle slide (for those without White Castle restaurants, they serve small hamburgers called "sliders").

Aie.

Interesting, punterrific update. Jillian is not planning for the long term. Everything she's doing is tactical, except for popping an heir, and that's not her idea. She's essentially taking Transylvito's money (and some of Charlie's) to do Charlie's work on her terms, with near-empty coffers. And she has to restrain her impulse to stab so that her warlords can level. No wonder she's going crazy.

The most obvious targets for Jillian are Wanda and Ansom, and Stanley. She is worried that she will not see Vinny again, which means that it's going to be something big. She can either attempt a head strike, or in the case of the Army of Darkness, she has intel from Charlie that has tipped her off to the AoD's own attempt at a head strike, and she's going to try to be at Jetstone's capital for the battle. Of course, her feelings about Wanda are still very much there, so if she is going after the AoD she will have to battle herself as well.

An alternate possibility is that she's going to attempt to kidnap Parson, but that's too purely in Charlie's interest. Jillian doesn't really know or care about "Lord Hamster." But both she and Charlie are interested in taking (Wanda and) Stanley down. I also like the theory that she's out to punk GK (and Parson) again by taking out its dwagon express.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Decorus » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:03 pm

Someone didn't read the update

How many units? At the time they had been decrypted, a little over six hundred Archons. About eighty percent of these were out in the field, either serving clients or standing by to be hired near hotspots. They ranged farther out into Erfworld than most sides imagined the world existed. Another 700 or so golems of various types (mostly cloth) guarded the city.


Charlie has over 120 Archons on hand along with 700 golems if Charlie wanted to wipe GK off the map he could easily considering. Keep in mind Charlie is not hurting for cash as he is hired out all over Erfworld farther out then most people even believe Erfworld expands to. This is also the number he had on hand when they were croaked....

Stanley on the other hand has had 47 turns of dwagon hunting in those turns if he averaged 2 dwagons he would have a total of 95 dwagons 250 hobgobwins and unknown other forces...
Last edited by Decorus on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby AngryAngel » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:08 pm

Fangthane wrote:Offhand thought (thanks to Dancing Cthulhu - Presuming that (like units) a volcano can only be uncroaked once and then is "dead-dead", I wonder if, given another dead volcano anywhere, Wanda, Sizemore and Maggie could link to Decrypt it. Or would that pretty much be Ragnarok? (assuming it'd just keep on gushing molten rock permanently)


I think a decrypted volcano would erupt on command, and only on command.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:17 pm

Decorus wrote:Charlie has over 120 Archons on hand along with 700 golems if Charlie wanted to wipe GK off the map he could easily considering. Keep in mind Charlie is not hurting for cash as he is hired out all over Erfworld farther out then most people even believe Erfworld expands to. This is also the number he had on hand when they were croaked....


You have a bizzare definition for easy. If Charlie would send ALL he has in his city right now, chances are it would be an even match, numeric-wise, to GK. The rule of thumb for sieges is 3 times more than your opponent (since defenses add bonuses etc).

This does not include the decrypted.

And as for the decrypted volcano, we don't know either way. For one, the volcano was never "alive" in the usual sense, and the "uncroak" thing was a metaphor. The spell did involve Wanda AND Sizemore after all.

As another point of difference, if the volcano was "croaked" and behaved exactly like a croaked corpse would, shouldn't it have disappeared long, long ago? Presumably nobody would build a city exactly atop an active, or recently active, volcano.

In principle, the volcano bomb could work again. But the stars are not right for it right now.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Wender » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:20 pm

Wait:

Maybe they would never see one another again.

Vinny had his feet on the tower as she lifted skyward. She saw her armada filling the sky with yellow death, and thought it would almost be easier that way.


... is she aiming for Transylvito?!

It's out of left field, but think about it:

1) She is clearly chafing under King Don's thumb, and Charlie has probably given up on TV as a future source of employment, which means that Charlie has an interest in replacing them with someone who is willing to work with him.

2) TV is impregnable against almost every form of attack... except the kind Jillian is fielding. It might also be possible for gobwins to come up from beneath TV, which would explain the shortage of Gobwins: Charlie is hoarding them as one half of a pincer attack.

3) Jillian is an ally, so she can get position and break alliance only when she's ready to attack.

4) Caesar is out in the boondocks with next to no reinforcements; TV itself is weakened and mired in other conflicts. And it currently has no heir.

5) TV is a really tough city to take; Jillian thinks she may croak, and it might be better if she never saw Vinny again.

I'm not saying I have iron-clad proof. Far from it. But TV is an easier target than GK is, closer than the AoD and possibly less formidable, and passes the test of being a liability to both Jillian and Charlie. Also, if Jillian sacks TV she gets a lot of schmuckers, some powerful troops to turn to her side, and, if she wants, a heavily fortified city. Charlie gains a powerful new ally.

Charlie could also have Archons in waiting. They have lots of move, so they don't have to be in sight of TV, and Jillian need only think hard to contact Charlie and tell them to move in. If the archons only move in for the killing blow, news of Charlie's explicit involvement need not ever make it out of Faq. If they're not needed, so much the better.

Am I completely crazy, or does this make sense to someone else, too?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Carlan » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:21 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Furousha wrote:intercepting Ansom actually wouldnt be so hard....


And thinking on it, a foreshadow of some sort of capture mission might have occurred in this update, since we got to see how effective a megalogwiff is in capturing even a level six warlord:

""Capture!" Jillian shouted to her stack. Her mount took it as a command. It flew her in fast, shouldering its way between the Giants, and planted itself on the fleeing warlord. The megalogwiff pinned him in the doorway and enveloped his body, leaving only his head exposed."


This has me thinking that Jillian is going to bait Wanda. The infantry she's been popping for Charlie's other plan could be sent at Wanda, or at least near enough to tempt her. It would be even better if Ansom is called back to GK, I suppose. Jillian's infanty rush in to Wanda's hex, get croaked but inflict enough damage for Jillian and her flying units to swoop in, maybe take out the rest of the hex, and capture Wanda and her Pliers. Maybe take her back to Faq for Vanna to turn her before Stanley and Ansom can get the dwagons in there to get Wanda back.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:25 pm

Wender wrote:Am I completely crazy, or does this make sense to someone else, too?


You are completely crazy and that theory is just delusion.

It's a beautiful delusion though.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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