Summer Updates - 049

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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Furousha » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:45 am

SteveMB wrote:How would that even be possible? The whole point of such an express network is that it lets a unit switch from mount to mount to mount, using the mounts' Move to cover many hexes all on that side's turn. There would be no opportunity for some other side to strike in mid-journey unless a link in the network has been severed without the network user's knowledge.



Hm. Good point. However TV did manage to intercept Stanley on GK's turn, so we know it is at least possible, though the terrain probably had a lot to do with that, She'd have to use a similar tactic probably... It is unknown if the dwagon train moves through all open hexes or if part of it covers the minty mountains... it is remotely possible that they could be setting some kind of ambush close to GK... i dunno, maybe Jillian really is stupid enough to try and buzz GK... maybe Her and Charley think that turning the hobgobwins + Jillians yellow death + several dozen archons will be enough to take GK? That theory doesnt hold much water either, because if this were charley's plan he'd want as many natural allies in GK as possible, so he wouldnt be screwing with Gobwin production in the mountain hexes...

So, maybe she is going after wanda, i guess on further examination it's the theory with the least holes in it... *shrugs* hopefully we'll know tonight.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:48 am

Glenn wrote:I'd say Jillian's ideal goal in this situation would be to capture and Turn Wanda. She still misses Wanda, and getting Wanda would also get her the Arkenplyers and the whole Decrypted army including Ansom.


It is turning into a regular old love square at the moment. Jillian, Wanda, Vinnie, Ansom...

Furousha wrote:Personally, I've utterd "I hate you" more times than i can remember when a friend beats me in a game or camps and gets a cheap shot on me in a shooter... I dont actually hate them. To me the comment Charlie made was not so much a statement of fact "Parson I hate your guts and I never want anything to do with you ever again!!!" as it was just a (mostly) friendly jab because Charlie was frustrated. I dont think every little thing that is said should nessicarily be taken completely litterally and at face value, especially when it's coming out of Charlie or Parson's mouth...


I agree. Heh, Charlie should have used a smiley to clear up this kind of confusion.

Just noticed this: "Not that she'd been making much infantry anyway, but the point was, she had made enough. Enough, and in time...for Charlie's other plan."

Am i completely misinterpreting this? It seems to imply that "Charlie's other plan" Somehow involves infantry, because while jillian wasn't making alot, she had made enough, and in time for Charlie's other plan... not sure what to make of this...


I'm not sure either, looking at some more of that section: "With these guys in the cities and on patrol, she could pop nothing but air units and warlords. Not that she'd been making much infantry anyway, but the point was, she had made enough."

I thought it sounded like she had been popping only warlords and flyers, but then it mentioned she hadn't been making much infantry, which seemed like a strange jump. Presumably before she got the giants she hadn't been producing much infantry (I guess the heir could be contributing to that), but what she had produced were sufficient for the plan.

Hmmm. Most basic infantry (stabbers etc) don't see that useful in small numbers, so if she hadn't been producing much infantry as it was, it seems strange she would have enough for anything significant. Maybe Vanna, Charlie and Jillian pulled something off to mass promote what infantry there was to knights. Not much infantry, but enough for the purpose of putting a strong rider on every gwiffon and megalogwiff not taken up by Jillian and that bunch of low level warlords (would she have taken Scone with her as well?).
Last edited by Dancing Cthulhu on Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Decorus » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:49 am

Its very possible that Charlie has convinced Jillian that Killing Stanley will get her Ansom back. So Jillian + Charlie could very well be trying to whack Stanley and end up putting Parson in charge of GK. Especially since all they have to do is blow Charlies calculations with this one question How many Archons do I need to penetrate GK's defenses and kill Stanley?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby SteveMB » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:49 am

Hatu wrote:I don't think Jillian's target is GK. The rest of the world may not know exactly what GK's status is, but they have to know it's been rebuilt by now. Given the size (and decrypted nature) of Ansom's army in the field, only a fool would think GK wouldn't be well defended. It would take a massive force to assure victory in an assault, and anything less than assured victory risks making the situation much, much worse.

And, of course, everybody remembers the last expedition sent against GK with "a massive force" guaranteed "to assure victory".... :shock:
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Stanley vs. Charlie

Postby Roszlishan » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:49 am

Megaduck wrote:
Gez wrote:I think we have finally found the culprit for Saline's death. Charlie probably didn't know Stanley had been promoted to Heir designate. He expected Stanley would disband and leave the Arkenhammer ripe for the taking. Now everything makes sense.


Agreed, it also explains why Stanley doesn't like Charlie.


Although it makes complete sense that Charlie was involved in Saline's overthrow, and it's certainly possible (likely!) that Stanley was complicit in Saline's regicide, I ... am dubious about this scenario.

Stanley is an arrogant lout who will not work with persons he dislikes,
even when it makes sense to do so. I grant the possibility that Charlie tricked him in some conspiracy surrounding Saline's overthrow, which would lead to his current attitude. But Charlie is more a plotter. I can't see him antagonizing Stanley if he intended to betray Stanley to gain his Arkentool. Charlie is smart enough to stay on Stanley's good side if he wanted - and from that, I conclude he didn't want to do so, and so any conspiracy was not Charlie's idea.

The one scenario I do see as possible is that Stanley contacted Charlie (to conspire), and got seriously (and obviously) burned by Charlie in some way.

I trust all of these questions will be resolved, eventually.

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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:54 am

All they'd really need to do is observe, detect the patterns. Or they could hire a foolamancer to lie in ambush. It's possible, else why would Stanley have to fear such an attack?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Roszlishan » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:55 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Furousha wrote:Personally, I've utterd "I hate you" more times than i can remember when a friend beats me in a game or camps and gets a cheap shot on me in a shooter...


I agree. Heh, Charlie should have used a smiley to clear up this kind of confusion


Point. Although, on the gripping hand, he didn't use a smiley.

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Re: Stanley vs. Charlie

Postby Krennson » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:02 pm

Roszlishan wrote:
The one scenario I do see as possible is that Stanley contacted Charlie (to conspire), and got seriously (and obviously) burned by Charlie in some way.




I'm inclined to agree. Stanley contacting Charlie first makes more sense than the rest of these theories.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby ftl » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:13 pm

Furousha wrote:
Hm. Good point. However TV did manage to intercept Stanley on GK's turn, so we know it is at least possible, though the terrain probably had a lot to do with that,


She knew that Stanley was intending to go to FAQ, and FAQ had exactly one entrance leading to it from GK, a choke point in the mountains. It's the destination - FAQ - that was special because it had that narrow choke point.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby ftl » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:19 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:One crazy idea I want to add: maybe Charley put Stanley under some kind of spell with his consent, to reduce the effect of loyalty and duty. But Charley expanded the spell and dumbed Stanley down and accented the less likeable aspects of his personality. That is my explanation why somebody who managed to make it from infantry to heir, can't even spend some minutes with his own brainwashed, fanatic chief warlord without giving him ideas about regicide. And for that buzzing sound that apparently occurs when he tries to think.


Hah! I like the idea.

Not that I think it's likely to be true, but I would certainly *LIKE* it to be true.

Maybe I'm just getting a little weary of the parson-versus-his-own-overlord conflict? But maybe I'll enjoy it again once Book 2 starts up. Though a "stanley becomes less incompetent" moment wouldn't be so bad.

Regardless, looking forward to the intrigue in book 2, and hopefully to finding out more of Charlie/Stanley backstory? (Hmm, "love is a battlefield..." :lol: )
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:27 pm

Furousha wrote: Jillian was at the battle of the pass remember? that was what, 2-3 dozen dwagons with just 3 knights and the Tool & his tool? TV brought what (probably) amounted to a very large chunk of their high level leadership to the fight, and they still only managed a marginal victory.


According to Jillian's assessment it was "30 plus Dwagons, with leadership and artifact bonus. Plus knights with dance-fight bonus. And we have eleven warlords, four gwiffons, some orlies and some bats".

Jillian didn't seem to like her sides chances initially. The knights were the best of the best, but the bats go up in value with TV warlords, who also had dance fight and Caesar was the Chief Warlord. I'm not sure I'd call it a marginal victory, since TV and Jillian did pretty well and Stanley only got away thanks to Jack, but I think your right, Jillian wouldn't go charging into a GK blindly because she knows the dangers. Charlie should as well.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby BRC » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:28 pm

My Theory
Charlie was behind Saline's Death. Maybe he did it just to promote more Warfare and therefore business, maybe he had an ulterior motive. But that's irrelevant.

Right Now, Charlie wants to bring down GK. They've been killing and decrypting his Archons. They want the Arkentools (Which means he's a target), and they are on course to conquer the world, as their numbers swell with every battle, and the Decrypted take no upkeep, meaning their numbers could increase indefinetally. Which would be bad for business.
Unfortunately, Charlie is too invested in his mercenary persona. People leave him alone because they know he won't do anything unless he's hired by somebody, in which case it's the person who hired him who is your real enemy. That's his defense, people treat him more like a game mechanic than a side. If he openly joins the RCC, he becomes just another Side.
So he takes this indirect approach. Jillian is a royal, she's skilled, and she's motivated. But she is inexperienced politically, making her an Ideal puppet. She's also an unknown to the rest of the world, so it's not like people will notice that Charlie is pulling Faq's strings. So Charlie sends her a Turnamancer, he get's her the Giants. Gradually, she'll rely on him more and more for decisions.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Rosa Vernal » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:32 pm

If Charlie wants to cause problems... I think the biggest problem that he could cause would be to form a third side. Given that we already know that Jillian likes mercenary work, what's to say that Charlie isn't asking her to break with the RCC2? Transylvito would have a devil of a time doing anything to stop it, as they're already spread out thinly enough and there's a nice, convenient hostage sitting right in the middle of the FAQ capital.

Of course, if I were Charlie, I'd wait until the RCC2 had committed its forces before sending in someone to capture lots of cities.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Furousha » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:35 pm

ftl wrote:
Furousha wrote:
Hm. Good point. However TV did manage to intercept Stanley on GK's turn, so we know it is at least possible, though the terrain probably had a lot to do with that,


She knew that Stanley was intending to go to FAQ, and FAQ had exactly one entrance leading to it from GK, a choke point in the mountains. It's the destination - FAQ - that was special because it had that narrow choke point.



had to run some errands and i was thinking about it more... intercepting Ansom actually wouldnt be so hard. If they have been observing the dwagon relay even a little it's likely following the same path of hexes each turn. even if they dont know where exactly the relay moves through, they could get a pretty good guess by knowing Point A (where Ansom is) and point B (Gobwin knob.) then they'd be able to calculate the shortest path, although there may be a number of shortest paths... they could also simple camp in the next hex in the direction of GK from the hex Ansom is in, all they would need to know is Ansom's location. How would they camp so close without being seen you ask? above someone suggested hiring a foolamancer. They dont need to, foolamancy is one of the random specials Archons come with. its quite possible an Archon with Foolamancy could veil the stack. theres any number of places they could set an ambush where Ansom was likely to pass through. it is likely that most of the waypoints of the dwagon relay are in cities, that way you dont have to leave a valuable dwagon out in the field by itself, vulnerable, at the end of your turn, youo could at least leave it in a city. so the ambush could be set up in a straight line between the last city on the relay and GK. or it could be set right next to Ansom's current location.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby teratorn » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:41 pm

I agree that Charlie has the gobwins working for him now (and probably had them in the past). I still think they are going for Stanley. With a massive air force around the city and everything below ground covered he can't flee the city. And since Stanley can't go through the portals GK can't use the nuke option again.

I wonder if one can transfer one's side capital city (at a cost of course). Then Stanley could make Parson his heir and send him to the new capital through the portal.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:49 pm

Furousha wrote:intercepting Ansom actually wouldnt be so hard....


And thinking on it, a foreshadow of some sort of capture mission might have occurred in this update, since we got to see how effective a megalogwiff is in capturing even a level six warlord:

""Capture!" Jillian shouted to her stack. Her mount took it as a command. It flew her in fast, shouldering its way between the Giants, and planted itself on the fleeing warlord. The megalogwiff pinned him in the doorway and enveloped his body, leaving only his head exposed."

It must be fun to have giant flying creatures made out of marshmallow. :D

teratorn wrote:I agree that Charlie has the gobwins working for him now (and probably had them in the past). I still think they are going for Stanley. With a massive air force around the city and everything below ground covered he can't flee the city. And since Stanley can't go through the portals GK can't use the nuke option again.


I don't think they could use the nuke option even if they wanted to, since Wanda isn't there, and the volcano is no longer in a "croaked" state.

And Stanley still has Jack. It would probably, if it ever came down to it, be far easier for him to escape GK with Jack's help then it was escaping the TV/Jillian ambush. Although with Archon magical detection assistance it might not be so easy.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:55 pm

SteveMB wrote:If Charlie engineered the gobwin revolt without Stanley being in on it, the fact that it happened while Stanley was off on an expedition suggests that Charlie wanted to avoid decapitating the Plaid side, and probably wanted Stanley in charge for his own reasons. Perhaps he had Stanley pegged as someone who would start a round of wars (and thereby bring in business for Charlie -- though if so it almost didn't work; the war was almost over before either side chose to hire him).


It might not have been so much not wanting to destroy the Plaid, but a revolt by the gobwins probably would not have worked with the casters and Stanley presant. And putting Stanley in charge not only would start wars, it also gives Charlie a shot at the Arkenhammer AND Arkenpliers. When Stanley and the casters came back to clean house Maggie would have had an opportunity to do some work and might have discovered something. Sizemore does not know what really happened though so Stanley just might suspect Charlie and not have any proof.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:58 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And Stanley still has Jack. It would probably, if it ever came down to it, be far easier for him to escape GK with Jack's help then it was escaping the TV/Jillian ambush. Although with Archon magical detection assistance it might not be so easy.


Charlie has to keep his involvement with Jillian very quite. So it's unlikely Archons will be around. And Jack is a Master Class Foolamancer and VERY good at his job. He might even be able to fool the Archons for a time.
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Crarites » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:08 pm

I'm not sure an ambush would be very affective against a unit that is moving well beyond their normal range of movement. Won't Ansom when entering the ambush hex notice the sun "jump" in the sky and then simply move back out of the hex before the ambush could occure?
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Re: Summer Updates - 049

Postby Fangthane » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:10 pm

Interesting revelations in terms of Charlie's back-room manipulation, and a much more direct association between Saline's fall and Parson's current inability to find Gobwins. I'd considered Charlie a canny opportunist using the situation to his advantage, but it begins to appear as if he may well have engineered the situation specifically in order to later take advantage. Clever indeed.

Between this and a few of the other recent updates though, I'm having some strange thoughts begin to percolate, all unbidden, from my subconscious (like Charlie's potential non-existence, Jillian as a natural ally to Gobwins, or the notion of setting up a Link between 3 archons). Nice that we're finally getting some notion of Charlie's capabilities and tendencies, though it raises as many questions as it resolves.

There's definitely something afoot with Charlie relative to the Knob and its surroundings; I don't think any of us give that 8% much credibility. He's doing something to eliminate, mask or confuse/bribe/adopt the gobwins (e.g. "attack the larger marbit tribe", illusion:marbit, "the gems are greener on the other side of the hex border") but that only really affects infantry levels and mining capability. I'm not sure he bought Parson's "diminishing Schmuckers" line any more than we did, but it may drive some overconfidence if he thinks that the economic denial side of his ploy is working out. In any case though, my suspicion is that Jillian's mission may involve picking up (or picking off) the Gobwins that Charlie's been hiding from GK.

Side note - Giants popping 9 at a time, ugh. ;) Do they vanish in a puff of greasy black smoke when they miss a target 3 times in a row?

Other side note - I find myself wondering just how insurmountable is the loyalty produced by decryption; I see three possibilities. If it's literally an extrapolation of a mindless undead (or uncroaked, if you prefer) devotion to its creator/master, it may be reasonable that a croakamancer could successfully turn their allegiance. If it's a proprietary effect of the pliers, then separating the pliers, Wanda or the decrypted unit from the Side might either break allegiance, revert them to standard uncroaked or dust them instantly. Finally, if it's a natural Thinkamancy or similar effect, it should be able to be broken in the same manner as any other normal loyalty, though (possibly) with a higher degree of difficulty. I know if I were Charlie, I'd be working on ways to find out more - in which case Jillian may be tasked with getting him some experimental subjects, which is most likely to include Ansom.

Catching Ansom should be easy if the Archons have been observing his path; set Jill's big air stack in the right place, use the Foolamancer to make 'em look innocuous, and take Ansom down - making sure to catch him in a central hex where neither of GK's larger forces can assist.

Offhand thought (thanks to Dancing Cthulhu - Presuming that (like units) a volcano can only be uncroaked once and then is "dead-dead", I wonder if, given another dead volcano anywhere, Wanda, Sizemore and Maggie could link to Decrypt it. Or would that pretty much be Ragnarok? (assuming it'd just keep on gushing molten rock permanently)

TL;DR version - Jillian's either pasting or hiring the gobwins, or she's trying to capture Ansom. Charlie's not stupid enough to have her suicide on a recon-in-force to Wanda's stack or GK.
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