Book 2 - Page 2

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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby ftl » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:27 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Diodri wrote:I'm actually more curious on how these talking sessions occur.


When they spoke with Bea, GK moved its units up to the hex beside their capital. On Unaroyal's turn, they spoke.

The leadership of GK remained in the same hex as their main force. Thus they could retreat if necessary. Unaroyal then moved into that hex in order to talk.

Something like:

Code: Select all
               Hex
             Boundary

                |
                |
Unaroyal's      |   Bea / Ansom                   GK's main
Capital         |         Wanda                   Force
                |
                |
                |


If GK moves its main force to attack, then Bea can move back across the zone boundary. If Bea moves forces from her capital across the boundary, then Ansom/Wanda can move back to their main force.

Ofc, it didn't entirely work, as Bea's Chief Warlord managed to kill Cruz.


Wait, is that how it is?

I assumed it was



Code: Select all
               Hex
             Boundary

                |
                |        GK Forces
         Bea    |  Ansom/Wanda
                |        More GK Forces
                |
                |
                |


with them talking, literally, across the hex boundary.

I sort of assumed that, didn't really think of it much, but I guess it could be the way you describe as well.

I think that my view is just a tad better supported by the sentences from Summer Update 43:
I said that I would require counsel, and withdrew from the hex boundary to privacy. To my Chief Warlord I said simply, "Destroy her." He would only carry out the order if I pledged to remain in safety. I so pledged.

The attack was brief and gruesome. K.C. approached on hollaback as if to speak to Cruz. He then lunged across the boundary.


since
1) Bea said she would "withdraw from the hex boundary" (not "withdraw from the hex", as I would expect if she was physically in Wanda's hex at the time.)
2) The warlord "lunges across the boundary" to attack Cruz - if normal parley procedure was for the warlord to already be in Wanda's hex, he wouldn't need to "lunge across the boundary", he would cross the boundary normally before attacking.

I think this way is also a little less possible to subvert with treachery - Wanda can keep a giant army within reach, but Bea is still safe from it because she's not going to cross the hex boundary. Both parties can consider themselves safe - Bea because it's her turn and she's not in their hex, Wanda because she can have a large army at hand and see that Bea doesn't.

(Of course, I'm not claiming that this is all definitive proof or anything - I'm just trying to use the turns of phrase used to try to figure out what the authors had in mind when writing this scene.)

Are there any other reasons to think it's one way versus the other? Any other bits that I'd missed?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Elhoim » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:29 pm

Awesome art! I can't wait until the next update!
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby WarpZone » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:32 pm

I actually have a bit of an issue with Expository Bridge... don't get me wrong, I lol'ed when I first read it... but then I realized what a pronounced 4th-wall-breaker it was.

Yes, I mean compared to all the other name jokes.

Cuz, see, at this point in the story, Parson has never heard of or been to Expository Bridge. When he does eventually find out about it, he probably won't be in the same position that the reader was in. (I.E. "Jetstone is no more. Ansom actually suggested razing the old capital rather than holding it, because the choke point at Expository Bridge would make our supply lines an easy target.")

This seems to suggest that the crazy names are not tied to Parson's expectations, but to the readers' expectations. I wasn't expecting that to be resolved so early.

I guess you could still make it work, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it come across as a major Lampshade Hang.

Luckily, the author is way smarter than me. :D

Or if this is an intentional move away from Erfworld's weird mysterious weirdness, and towards a gag-a-day format, I guess that's fair enough. (What are reboots good for if the author can't change things?)
Last edited by WarpZone on Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby kefkakrazy » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:41 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
ShieldOfAthena wrote:Isn't Ansom's costume supposed to be black now? I thought Jamie said that was an error in book 1 (and so says the special panel in the Toolbox from back then).


No, other way around. The black PJs on Ansom were a mistake. White is the correct one.



I think it's creepier this way. If he looked like a zombie, it's one thing, but all the Decrypted look normal minus the livery change (Ansom's royal radishes-> Wanda skulls), and it's eerie.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Anton Gaist » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:14 pm

WarpZone wrote:I guess you could still make it work, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it come across as a major Lampshade Hang.


*clicks*

*two hours later*

Curse you!
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby sheepfly » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:18 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:i also cant stop giggling at Wanda's black codpiece :lol:


Hey, she's into BDSM, it fits. I'm actually a little surprised there isn't a spike on the front of it or something equally disturbing.


Grunthos wrote:The interesting thing about Xin Ye's review of the Erfworld art style is that she is proceeding from where Jaime left off, rather than where Jaime began. I thought Wanda looked strange on this page, until I went back and compared the differences between Wanda on page 2 of TBfGK and Wanda on page 144 of TBfGK. Jaime already brought us most of the way from big-head, kid's cartoon figures to more normal proportions.

And if you look back critically... some of Jaime's poses were stiff, too, on occasion. It happens, when you're putting art out on a deadline.

I do think Xin doesn't have Parson down quite yet. He isn't fitting into the scenes quite right for me. This, too, shall pass, I'm sure.


The spidews also kind of look like giant black lemons, but otherwise I'm really digging Xin's art. It'll be even more interesting to see what she does with entirely new characters/units/places. Zhopa and the new GK were marvelous, so the future of Erfworld art is looking quite rosy from where I'm sitting.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:23 pm

ftl wrote:I sort of assumed that, didn't really think of it much, but I guess it could be the way you describe as well.

I think that my view is just a tad better supported by the sentences from Summer Update 43:
I said that I would require counsel, and withdrew from the hex boundary to privacy. To my Chief Warlord I said simply, "Destroy her." He would only carry out the order if I pledged to remain in safety. I so pledged.

The attack was brief and gruesome. K.C. approached on hollaback as if to speak to Cruz. He then lunged across the boundary.



Yeah, you are probably right.

The protection that GK had against sudden attack was that only Bea's stack approached the hex boundary.

I think this way is also a little less possible to subvert with treachery - Wanda can keep a giant army within reach, but Bea is still safe from it because she's not going to cross the hex boundary. Both parties can consider themselves safe - Bea because it's her turn and she's not in their hex, Wanda because she can have a large army at hand and see that Bea doesn't.


True.

The side whose turn it is has more protection in that situation, though.

I guess given GK's massive army, Wanda had little reason to feel afraid.

My suggestion puts both sides on a more equal footing. I could see the leadership of a side refusing to approach the hex boundary on the other side's turn. They would be subject to sneak croak and not be able to respond in kind.

Ofc, the current conversation is occurring on GK's turn (presumably). They could sneak attack the Jetstone leadership.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:27 pm

WarpZone wrote:I actually have a bit of an issue with Expository Bridge... don't get me wrong, I lol'ed when I first read it... but then I realized what a pronounced 4th-wall-breaker it was.


There are a great number of locations whose names are puns already. Expository Bridge makes a good pun in general; it just happens to be situationally appropriate here as well. I wouldn't be surprised to find other bridges named, for example "Dental", "Musical", or "Afourthfore", as well as finding a suspension bridge outside of the city of Disbelief...
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Hermod » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:35 pm

sheepfly wrote:
The spidews also kind of look like giant black lemons


Want to thank you for making me take a second look at the Spidews as on the second viewing they reminded me of Bolomites from Stranger's Wrath.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Xorbon » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:08 pm

I like the new artwork in this book. I think it's the coloring.

WarpZone wrote:I guess you could still make it work, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it come across as a major Lampshade Hang.


You people read too much TVTropes! :P

I mean, 4th wall? Lampshade? Exposition?

If I didn't know any better, I would think that these forums are filled with 1st-year literary students. ;)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Lord Kasavin » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:55 pm

Hey, I noticed the time is given as 72 turns after Parson was summoned. What's that in Turns since the FInal Battle of Gobwin Knob?

I'm thinking about 65, which should have given Jillian enough time to reach GK if that was her target.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby DarkNewton » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:57 pm

While I always liked Jamie's art, I find it refreshing to see Erfworld through a new artist's eyes. I think Xin is doing a great job of both keeping the feel that Jamie originally brought to Erfworld, and adding her own personality to it.

On a different note.. Wanda's mount doesn't really look like it's a Dwagon.. with the pronounced eyebrow.. I'd have to assume she's riding a one-eyed, one eared, flying purple people eater.

Or is it just the holiday messing with my mind?

Also, I liked the evil removed joke.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby ftl » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:04 pm

WarpZone wrote:I actually have a bit of an issue with Expository Bridge... don't get me wrong, I lol'ed when I first read it... but then I realized what a pronounced 4th-wall-breaker it was.

Yes, I mean compared to all the other name jokes.

Cuz, see, at this point in the story, Parson has never heard of or been to Expository Bridge. When he does eventually find out about it, he probably won't be in the same position that the reader was in. (I.E. "Jetstone is no more. Ansom actually suggested razing the old capital rather than holding it, because the choke point at Expository Bridge would make our supply lines an easy target.")

This seems to suggest that the crazy names are not tied to Parson's expectations, but to the readers' expectations. I wasn't expecting that to be resolved so early.

I guess you could still make it work, but I can't think of a way that wouldn't make it come across as a major Lampshade Hang.

Luckily, the author is way smarter than me. :D

Or if this is an intentional move away from Erfworld's weird mysterious weirdness, and towards a gag-a-day format, I guess that's fair enough. (What are reboots good for if the author can't change things?)


To be fair, Parson A. Gotti has been an anagram of "A Protagonist" since the very beginning. That's even more pronounced of a 4th-wall breaker.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:16 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:Hey, I noticed the time is given as 72 turns after Parson was summoned. What's that in Turns since the FInal Battle of Gobwin Knob?

I'm thinking about 65, which should have given Jillian enough time to reach GK if that was her target.


Calculations are in progress on the wiki :).

If page 1 counts as turn 1, then Parson was summoned on turn 3, and the current page is turn 75 (72 turns later).

TBFGK ended on turn 9 (or 8?), so Jillian left on turn 64.

I wonder if we should come up with a dating convention.

Like turn 75 AW (after Warchalking) :).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby Sixty » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:20 pm

DarkNewton wrote:While I always liked Jamie's art, I find it refreshing to see Erfworld through a new artist's eyes. I think Xin is doing a great job of both keeping the feel that Jamie originally brought to Erfworld, and adding her own personality to it.

On a different note.. Wanda's mount doesn't really look like it's a Dwagon.. with the pronounced eyebrow.. I'd have to assume she's riding a one-eyed, one eared, flying purple people eater.

Or is it just the holiday messing with my mind?

Also, I liked the evil removed joke.


She's not on a dwagon, she's on a sourmander (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Sourmanders).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby DevilDan » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:38 pm

Expository Bridge: I admit that made me smile.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby BoopingCynic » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:46 pm

raphfrk wrote:
ftl wrote:I sort of assumed that, didn't really think of it much, but I guess it could be the way you describe as well.

I think that my view is just a tad better supported by the sentences from Summer Update 43:
I said that I would require counsel, and withdrew from the hex boundary to privacy. To my Chief Warlord I said simply, "Destroy her." He would only carry out the order if I pledged to remain in safety. I so pledged.

The attack was brief and gruesome. K.C. approached on hollaback as if to speak to Cruz. He then lunged across the boundary.



Yeah, you are probably right.

The protection that GK had against sudden attack was that only Bea's stack approached the hex boundary.

I think this way is also a little less possible to subvert with treachery - Wanda can keep a giant army within reach, but Bea is still safe from it because she's not going to cross the hex boundary. Both parties can consider themselves safe - Bea because it's her turn and she's not in their hex, Wanda because she can have a large army at hand and see that Bea doesn't.


True.

The side whose turn it is has more protection in that situation, though.

I guess given GK's massive army, Wanda had little reason to feel afraid.

My suggestion puts both sides on a more equal footing. I could see the leadership of a side refusing to approach the hex boundary on the other side's turn. They would be subject to sneak croak and not be able to respond in kind.

Ofc, the current conversation is occurring on GK's turn (presumably). They could sneak attack the Jetstone leadership.


But in the image they are both in single hex and they (Ansom, Ossamar and the other one) are alone :|.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:52 pm

BoopingCynic wrote:But in the image they are both in single hex and they (Ansom, Ossamar and the other one) are alone :|.


The hex boundary could run through the middle of the bridge, unless the bridge is in the centre of the zone.

Also, presumably the 3 are just the Jetstone Princes. Maybe if there is danger, Wanda stayed back.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby DarkNewton » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:13 pm

Sixty wrote:She's not on a dwagon, she's on a sourmander (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Sourmanders).


Ahhh that makes much more sense, especially when you put the troopers heads into the picture.

Thanks!
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Re: Book 2 - Page 2

Postby BoopingCynic » Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:19 pm

raphfrk wrote:
BoopingCynic wrote:But in the image they are both in single hex and they (Ansom, Ossamar and the other one) are alone :|.


The hex boundary could run through the middle of the bridge, unless the bridge is in the centre of the zone.

Also, presumably the 3 are just the Jetstone Princes. Maybe if there is danger, Wanda stayed back.


It would be better to have them have an honor guard because otherwise it is 2 on 1 :geek:.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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