Book 2 - Page 3

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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby carisbourg » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:55 am

There's another possibility for why the princes are on the bridge, they might be trying a Horatius Gambit. The entire time this conversation is going on, there could be Marbit axemen (or engineers) destroying the foundations of the bridge. Ossomer finishes the conversation with Ansom and Tremmenis pops off, "By the way ex-little bro, weve been destroying the foundations, you'll never get back to your witch queen. Bridge falls, antagonists swim to shore, protagonist's ally is "lost." And shows up 15 pages later at a crucial point.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Anca » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:08 pm

KiltedNinja wrote:Also - still no-one seems to have picked up on the fact that Ansom is wearing a priest's dog collar... doing his whole "conversion" thang..

Priests do not wear a "dog collar". Not the sort of priest you seem to be referencing, anyway.

That may be the high collar of a shirt or a gorget; I'd say the latter is much more likely. I doubt at all it's the sort of collar one would attach a lead to.

Edit: Post below has (possibly) cleared up the one issue. Still, Ansom seems to be wearing a gorget, not a collar. I don't know that any resemblance would be intentional--
Last edited by Anca on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:14 pm

Anca wrote:Priests do not wear a "dog collar". Not the sort of priest you seem to be referencing, anyway.

That may be the high collar of a shirt or a gorget; I'd say the latter is much more likely. I doubt at all it's the sort of collar one would attach a lead to.


Actually, they do. In the UK, an informal name for clerical collar is dog collar, if wikipedia is to be believed.

SuperDuperHai2U wrote:Hello, just want to say, there is absolutely no reason to think the tremennis somehow is a boy or has a boyish voice.

Notice his adam's apple in panel 6. He is a mature person, you'd be a fool to underestimate him.


Ha, great one sir! :D

No wait, you were serious. :|

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Tramenis reminds me of a classic renaissance court noble. Witty, cultured, deadly.


And inbred.
Spoiler: show
Possibly homosexual. Must investigate further.


Zeku wrote:There's a little bit of Hugh Laurie there, in Tramennis.


Ridiculous extrapolations on both sides, me included, based on the meagerest of textual evidence aside, this is another reason to like this forum. Lots of nifty cultural products get referenced, in this case Blackadder. Truly this place is an education.
Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Anca » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:22 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Anca wrote:Priests do not wear a "dog collar". Not the sort of priest you seem to be referencing, anyway.

That may be the high collar of a shirt or a gorget; I'd say the latter is much more likely. I doubt at all it's the sort of collar one would attach a lead to.


Actually, they do. In the UK, an informal name for clerical collar is dog collar, if wikipedia is to be believed.

You'd have been better off linking to the BBC article at the bottom. I wasn't aware the collar had that sort of nickname, but if that's what the other poster meant that's at least less offensive. Thanks for the info.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:26 pm

I think that's what he meant, I've heard "dog collar" used for the priest's accessory a few times before, like when describing the former, vicar-based outfit of Anathema's keyboard player.

It is a bit weird of a nickname though, must be some reason behind it.

Infidel wrote:Tremennis is the big bro. {snip} Besides, Big brothers tend to be eccentric. Little brothers seem to always be the most level headed. Probably due to dealing with the big brothers.


Aww come on, just look at Ossomer.

And about the eccentricity thing, I saw once a documentary on some Discovery Channel claiming that the elder brother tends to do what parents say and therefore grows up conformist, while the little brother is the one throwing the tantrum and growing up artsy and creative. Then they made a list of people who were little brothers and famous in history. Seemed like a logic fail, since even they admitted their list was populated by not-elder-brothers which is what someone was likely to be when people had seven kids ... and the elder ones were expected to go on with the family business ...

Anyway, more proof that nobody knows diddly (in psychology).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Raza » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:49 pm

Page isn't so interesting to me. Never liked the Jetstones; jocks, traditionalists, crusaders, sense-of-entitlement royalist twats...

'S'not to say I don't like them being a faction in Erfworld; I like the whole 'everything is represented somewhere' thing, and they're not being undeservedly glorified as the good guys just for being the most normal, for once. I just don't like them, superman especially.

Tramennis seems the least dreary of the three, but his hair marks him as a douchebag.

stm177 wrote:It's notable that Stanley is seen as cowardly. Is this based on Stanley fleeing Gobwin Knob for the ruins of Faq, or that he's currently holed up in Gobwin Knob?

Stanley really isn't cowardly.

I think it's based on "We're a country full of people that don't like him and never talk to anyone that does, so we don't need to base our accusations on anything." psychology. Just like everyone in the original RCC went along with the ruler-by-regicide thing; it suited their existing notions and there was nobody around to ask the difficult questions.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:59 pm

Hatu wrote:Still no real news, plot wise, but we do get to meet the Jetstones.

Retconjurer wrote:Also, I just found Tramennis immensely irritating and I have no idea why people think he's cool.


Yeah, I found him an annoying distraction; I'm not looking forward to seeing more of him. Ossomer was much less grating, and seems more interesting even if he's pretty straightforward.


Trmennis's foppish clown persona is just a mask. It's one of his weapons to put his opponents off guard and to make them under estimate him. It's also can anger and annoy his opponents (Looks like it's working on you). into letting their guard down and to make them reckless. Just as Parson pushed Ansom's buttons in Book One. Beneath is foppish mask it a deadly intellect. He bides it time. He looks for weaknesses in his opponents. When the time is right he will strike out, suddenly and deadly. I imagine his favoured personal weapon is a rapier. A weapon of quickness and precision to strike at the chinks at his armored opponents. You can his true self peeking underneath the mask in the last panel. Don't underestimate or turn your back to Tremennis, it will be last mistake you will make.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Miklus II » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:04 pm

Ahhh, finally on the forum! I hail from the GITP forum BTW.

Osomer does indeed look like Superman, the hair gave it away. As for Tramennis...I also fell I have seen him somewhere before. The best I could think of was Alexander the Great, who also had blonde hair. If that is so, then I pity Ansom who has to fight "Alexander the Great" and "Superman" at the same time...A though fight indeed.

I would agree that Tramennis look like the most dangerous one. Finally a Jetstone prince that is not totally pig-headed. :roll:
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:09 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:Trwmennis's foppish clown persona is just a mask. It's one of his weapons to put his opponents off guard and to make them under estimate him. {snip} Beneath is foppish mask it a deadly intellect. He bides it time. He looks for weaknesses in his opponents. When the time is right he will strike out, suddenly and deadly. I imagine his favoured personal weapon is a rapier. A weapon of quickness and precision to strike at the chinks at his armored opponents. You can his true self peeking underneath the mask in the last panel.


Don't you just love how many people know so much from so little?

nerf-dweller wrote:It's also can anger and annoy his opponents (Looks like it's working on you) into letting their guard down and to make them reckless. Just as Parson pushed Ansom's buttons in Book One.


Omg zing! Nah, he's just being a douche-bag for baggery's sake.

nerf-dweller wrote:Don't underestimate or turn your back to Tremennis, it will be last mistake you will make.


Completely unrelated to his douchebaggery, but it would seem that Tremennis would prefer to be the one with his back turned to you. Zing!

There. Everyone can play douchebag humour.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:13 pm

And it's interesting we now see what goes for swearing in Erfworld: "Used Fig" and "Dog Bowls".Edges right up to the boop-line, but doesn't cross it. 8-)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:38 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
nerf-dweller wrote:Trwmennis's foppish clown persona is just a mask. It's one of his weapons to put his opponents off guard and to make them under estimate him. {snip} Beneath is foppish mask it a deadly intellect. He bides it time. He looks for weaknesses in his opponents. When the time is right he will strike out, suddenly and deadly. I imagine his favoured personal weapon is a rapier. A weapon of quickness and precision to strike at the chinks at his armored opponents. You can his true self peeking underneath the mask in the last panel.


Don't you just love how many people know so much from so little?


What do you mean from so little. We have the entirety of Book One and the Summer Updates. We know to expect out of the story. Rob's using classic Archetypes in the characters. Tremennis is as classic as you can get. I have no doubt as to how Tremennnis will act. What I'm looking forward to is Rob's spin on the classic archetype. We don't know what or when. That's what makes the story and characters interesting to me.

All of the brothers are classice. Osommer is the strong, straight forward one. If the Superman inferrence are true, he's going to be very protective is his charges. He's prone to using his brawn to solve problems. He might be a good strategist but he's going to predictable and inflexible. Tremennis is the thin, weak one, but he very smart. He fights with his brain rather then brawn. As I said he will bide his time, analysis his opponents, predict what they are going to do and stike at the pefect opportunity. His weakness may be overly complex strategies that fall apart when his opponents do something unexpect. And Ansome is the good looking charmer. His solves problems using his good looks and charm. The natural born diplomat. Looking at all three brothers together, I see them as facets of the perfect ruler. Classic archetypes all.

nerf-dweller wrote:It's also can anger and annoy his opponents (Looks like it's working on you) into letting their guard down and to make them reckless. Just as Parson pushed Ansom's buttons in Book One.


Omg zing! Nah, he's just being a douche-bag for baggery's sake.


Eh. He just can't help himself. It's just the way he popped. :)

nerf-dweller wrote:Don't underestimate or turn your back to Tremennis, it will be last mistake you will make.


Completely unrelated to his douchebaggery, but it would seem that Tremennis would prefer to be the one with his back turned to you.


We shall see...
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby DevilDan » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:50 pm

All I know is that there's nothing lost by Trammenis playing the jester, and possibly some gains in terms of psychological warfare and overall morale. I like that approach better than that of the stuffed-shirts Ossomer and Ansom.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:55 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:What do you mean from so little. We have the entirety of Book One and the Summer Updates. We know to expect out of the story. Rob's using classic Archetypes in the characters. Tremennis is as classic as you can get.


In short, you are identifying Tremennis with the trickster archetype and I agree he has that vibe to him by the way.

That said, what we (all of us me included) know of him is hopefully nothing because otherwise it would mean that the character, in fact, isn't and it's just stock. We know nothing but our preconceptions and prejudices on the characters, which an author will know how to use and abuse, avert invert and subvert hopefully so that by the end we will all be surprised.

All I can commit to is that Tremennis looks like the kind of person who operates as you describe. To me, he also looks smug because he knows he can afford it while his brother's there to protect him. Hey, that's cunning and smart too - just not that bad-ass eh?

nerf-dweller wrote:We shall see...


Indeed. "Must investigate further".

DevilDan wrote:All I know is that there's nothing lost by Trammenis playing the jester, and possibly some gains in terms of psychological warfare and overall morale. I like that approach better than that of the stuffed-shirts Ossomer and Ansom.


At least Ossomer and Ansom bring washed shirts to mind.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Ominous » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:55 pm

I'm jumping on the "I love Trammenis" side. I always enjoyed Loki and Puck and he is definitely like them. I'm putting my money on Trammenis being either a Magnificent Bastard or a Smug Snake. He's definitely got the Trickster and likely the Large Ham qualities of Magnificent Bastard down, but we have yet to see if he has any Chessmaster or Manipulative Bastard qualities. If he's more bark than bite than he falls into the Smug Snake category.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Pointyleaf » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Anton Gaist wrote:One? If those towers are filled with archer units, the golems could push them halfway into the water on both sides of the bridge. That would give the archers high ground to pick off their targets at leisure, protecting the units crossing the bridge on foot. Jetstone ground units would be unable to engage them directly, and would also be seriously damaged if they tried to engage the units exiting the bridge.


Very cool idea. One possible problem, though, is hex boundaries. Can arrows cross them? Is the hex boundary in the middle of the bridge? It might limit the usefulness of the towers.

On your other bit, yeah, I also thought of Jillian coming to RCC2's aid. Currently the Army of Doom is overpowered, leaving Parson with nothing to do. Since he needs to be engaged, plot-wise, there has to be a strategic struggle, and it wouldn't surprise me if most of the AoD is dusted. I wonder if Wanda gets away.

On the other hand, Jillian cant' get there this turn. It's GK's turn.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:14 pm

Chivalry is terminally ill.

In this update, we've got one truly epic speech. The one that uses the dog bawls actually. Ossomer's speech. Here you have it, a character with maybe-not-exactly-even-odds telling their opponent that some principles are not to be abandoned even in the face of destruction. It's last stand, brave and, yeah, epic. Clash of worlds/cultures(/Titans? heh) style.

So ...

... he's a jock and a stuffed shirt and we're arguing about whether the other guy is the best thing since toast or needs to die horribly pronto.

Pointyleaf wrote:Currently the Army of Doom is overpowered, leaving Parson with nothing to do. Since he needs to be engaged, plot-wise, there has to be a strategic struggle, and it wouldn't surprise me if most of the AoD is dusted. I wonder if Wanda gets away.


Wanda will survive. I guess almost everyone would be very surprised if that would not be the case.
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Though with my long list of annoying characters, whatever, good riddance. It's Maggie I'm worried about.


The apparent over-poweredness of the AoD was what made me suspect that a splitting of Wanda from the rest of Stanley's forces would eventually happen.

So far that was not the case and with the board looking complicated already and staying that way (Tremennis won't die horribly pronto, alas), I don't think that split will occur. I think you're right, and we might witness, for book 2, Parson doing an offensive campaign for once. And one that will look, once again, precarious.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Roszlishan » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:02 pm

Retconjurer wrote:You're all missing the point of this update. Ossomer is as tall as Parson. Also, I just found Tramennis immensely irritating and I have no idea why people think he's cool. Ansom looked genuine though. Sort of sad, with a good mix of compassion on his face. Interesting that he called Tramennis a prince.


Tremennis is interesting because he's essentially the opposite of Prince Ossomer stylistically - where Prince Ossomer is blunt, Prince Tremennis is sarcastic. Both are making it very clear that they don't believe Ansom brought an army because there isn'tgoing to be a battle - but they do so in such different ways. And neither accepts Ansom's new claim of Toolism.

I must say I like Prince Ossomer's takedown of Stanley, Charlie, and Wanda as ... deficient in some important and vital moral sense.

Not, of course, that either Prince is a stanchion of virtue. They might be, they might not be. We don't know.

Cheers,
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby entropomorphic » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:32 pm

Awesome page. :D

But the internet wouldn't be the internet without nits being picked.
Ansom's armor is shown with an oversized right pauldron. This is incorrect because Ansom is right-handed, and it would interfere with his sword-swinging. When armor has asymmetrical shoulder guards, the larger of the two nearly always goes on the shield arm (Ansom's left), which faces the enemy, to present a continuous impenetrable barrier when used with a shield.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby multilis » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:41 pm

Has Parson run the odds, including speculating about future events as Charlie showed was possible?

If so, that would make it harder for royals to pull a suprise. If not, then that might hint at Parson being flawed as result of not having "support package" meantioned in stip 1.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Infidel » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:45 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Aww come on, just look at Ossomer.


I see his size, but I don't think Tramenis came by his ego relying on his little brother.

And about the eccentricity thing, I saw once a documentary on some Discovery Channel claiming that the elder brother tends to do what parents say and therefore grows up conformist, while the little brother is the one throwing the tantrum and growing up artsy and creative. Then they made a list of people who were little brothers and famous in history. Seemed like a logic fail, since even they admitted their list was populated by not-elder-brothers which is what someone was likely to be when people had seven kids ... and the elder ones were expected to go on with the family business ...

Anyway, more proof that nobody knows diddly (in psychology).


Artsy and creative isn't eccentric, it's artsy and creative. The eldest sibling has no elder siblings to go to for advice, and the mother and father are away, so they develop their own answers to problems without a role model. That's why they are odd and whimsical. An eldest brother might be the most likely to take over the family business, but he's also the most likely to close the shop on a nice day and put up a "Gone Fishin'" sign.
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