Book 2 - Page 3

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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby DoctorJest » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:07 am

InInUrForumz wrote:
Anton Gaist wrote:The one thign that struck me most about what little we've seen is the lack of visible air cover, which makes me wonder if that isn't part of the plan too. Bring your seige forward, and lure your enemy into trying to stop them at the bridge (which as a chokepoint,is a good defensive spot against land forces). Once your enemy's committed, bam.... your air forces strike from another direction, having circled around while you were having a parlay :P Maybe they'll even ignore the enemy's main force and attack the city proper. Between the dwagons, archons, and whatever decrypted flyers they have left from the first coalition....surely they could press the garrison hard. It might even be a win right there. Ignore the body, go for the throat


I use a similar tactic (substitute "calvary" for "air forces") when defending choke points (like bridges) in Total War. It makes sense to me that it would be a standard tactic in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Gez » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:18 am

quindraco wrote:Have you noticed that no one seems able to spell Tramennis' name correctly?

Same with his brother Ossomer (aka "Ossamar"). And also same with Jamie (aka "Jaime").
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:05 am

Infidel wrote:I'm not getting what you're trying to say here. I said eccentric and you're going off on conformist.


To clarify: In my first post on this topic, I mentioned that some Discovery Channel documentary claimed that while little brothers grow up artsy and creative, elder brothers grow up conformist. Which is not eccentric. When you replied, you seized on "artsy, creative" and argued those are not the key to eccentricity, I thought you ignored the other claim, that referred specifically to elder brothers.

Infidel wrote:An eccentric person isn't trying to not conform he's just following is mood. Unlike how a bunch of kids will get together and agree to be non-conformists, by instead conforming to a different standard. Eccentricity in people is about oddness and whimsy not a long-term resistance to conformity. A shop keeper that closes up on a nice day to go fishing is eccentric. He's not trying to not conform, he's just more interested in enjoying the day than running the store. Painting one's interior walls fuscia is eccentric. Smart, creative, non-boring, these have nothing to do with Eccentricity. Being an artist is not itself eccentric, nothing whimsical about that, it's not even close, because being an artist is a passion not a whim. An artist that refuses to paint anything but trees would be eccentric though. Life altering decisions aren't taken lightly simply because someone is eccentric, but they might inconvenience others in many other ways that are considered less important. Such as an eccentric store owner that refuses to take credit cards for payment.


The rest of this is actually a pretty good description of eccentricity.

This is as good a time as any to remind people that while I did mention a Discovery Channel show that made a certain set of claims, I called that show a logic fail.

Joe22c. wrote:I'm actually a 3rd year psyc major and I've given up trying to nit-pick, very simply because there's too much. So, whatever. Whenever people want to offer their "psychoanalysis" (while unaware that psychoanalysis had been debunked almost a century ago) I just skip past.

For those still arguing about the little-brother-tends-to-be-more-creative there isn't solid evidence in favour of that just yet. Also, that kind of study would probably be more sociological than psychological because you're looking to compare one demographic to another.

Also, intuition and drawing on fairy tales in history does not make fact/science and hence shouldn't be used as "proof" - intuition is used for explaining proof or making hypotheses.


More clarification: in the very first post you quoted, I called the "little brother tends to be creative" claim as a logic fail. It really wasn't proved.

Neither is the suggestion that the elder brother is eccentric, or at least no proof is here shown.

The fairy-tales bit is just a folk intuition, as you rightfully notice. I mentioned it, because given that folklore says the littlest of brothers is the distinguished one, Infidel's claim stands out as different, eccentric, and it becomes even more interesting to see what lead to it.

As for which science would have jurisdiction over this issue, I dunno. Developmental psychology? Sociology? None, the issue isn't well formulated/relevant?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Wisp Wings » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:46 am

Well least they shoulden't have too much trouble taking Ossomer down:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F142.jpg

(Panel 9)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BoopingCynic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:47 am

Dr Pepper wrote:I too, see Tramennis as the trickster type. But there's just one problem with the "fatally underestimated" part. And that's the fact erfworlders have statvision. We see Tramennis and "must be hidden capabilities there". Erfworlders see

PRINCE TRAMMENIS
Human, Jetstone
Type: Warlord Level: 16
Movement: 4

Special: Beguilement, dagger throwing


Hence his act is mainly just his act, it is not a strategic ploy.


I don't think Overlords,Commanders or Casters can't see anything but the level, move, attack, hit and defense plus any special ability like fabrication
for their own troops, it said this somewhere near the beginning I think :oops: but I can't seem to find it.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Oh My Strogg » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:13 am

I don't know if this has already been brought up - but is it only me, or does the sequence of prince Ossomer's face in the rightmost panels remind you of the DooM-Guy (yeah, the original game released years ago by id-Software)?
In that games (DooM 1 and DooM 2) your hitpoints, ammo and stuff was in a bar at the bottom of the screen, along with a face which apparently was a portrait of your character. The face pretty much is resembled by Ossomer. Whenever you got hit, the face turned in the direction the threat came from (to give you a hint as to where turn to) and grimaced pretty much like Ossomer when he gets angry in the flow of this page.
Am I seeing something that isn't there, is it pure coincidence, or don't you think there's a similarity at all?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby SteveMB » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:26 am

BoopingCynic wrote:I don't think Overlords,Commanders or Casters can't see anything but the level, move, attack, hit and defense plus any special ability like fabrication for their own troops, it said this somewhere near the beginning I think :oops: but I can't seem to find it.


"What were these troops? They were his, he could see that. He could see their stats." (emphasis added)

It would appear that ordinary stat-o-vision (as distinguished from Parson's glasses) doesn't include names, because Stanley didn't know Jack's name until he heard Jillian address him by name at the chokepoint battle. (Or maybe it only includes a unit's name if and only if the viewer already knows the unit by name, and otherwise just gives a generic unit type.)
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Sinewmire » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 am

Just wanted to add my own accolade - this is so jaw-droppingly beautiful yet so very Erfworld that I just had to register and post instead of lurking.

Tramennis looks more like Caligula than Nero to me, which is a little worrying for Jetstone as Caligula was regarded as a child prodigy and turned out to be an insane, paranoid psychopath. They also made him Emperor.

He was also taken by his father, Germanicus, amidst Germanicus' Legion dressed in minature armour and was very popular amongst the men. So Tramennis looks like a young Caligula to me. Also, his hairstyle and chin remind me of John Hurt as Caligula in I, Claudius

Caligula is hilariously* nuts, look him up, and look up John Hurt's portrayal of him. He's chilling.





*Hilarious now, in retrospect. I'd imagine at the time you'd be more worried about being tortured and executed because you were stealing the Emperor's ants or something.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Gez » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:02 pm

Oh My Strogg wrote:Am I seeing something that isn't there, is it pure coincidence, or don't you think there's a similarity at all?

Image
Not really. No chinbuttocks on the Doomguy.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BoopingCynic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:44 pm

SteveMB wrote:
BoopingCynic wrote:I don't think Overlords,Commanders or Casters can't see anything but the level, move, attack, hit and defense plus any special ability like fabrication for their own troops, it said this somewhere near the beginning I think :oops: but I can't seem to find it.


"What were these troops? They were his, he could see that. He could see their stats." (emphasis added)

It would appear that ordinary stat-o-vision (as distinguished from Parson's glasses) doesn't include names, because Stanley didn't know Jack's name until he heard Jillian address him by name at the chokepoint battle. (Or maybe it only includes a unit's name if and only if the viewer already knows the unit by name, and otherwise just gives a generic unit type.)

Thanks :) , and it only shows names for the glasses because he could see Jack's name but Stanley couldn't even though neither of them knew his name before and this http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F108.jpg proves it.
Last edited by BoopingCynic on Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Mask » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:46 pm

Infidel wrote: Besides, Big brothers tend to be eccentric. Little brothers seem to always be the most level headed. Probably due to dealing with the big brothers.


Acctually, that sort of flies in the face of just about everything I've heard about sibling relations. The most commonly reoccuring roles I've heard of are;
1. The protective older sibling - Somewhat of a comformist, prone to feel responsible for his/her siblings and also prone to take the blame for things. This would be the "level headed" one, if anyone.
2. The affirmation-seeking younger sibling - Often feeling under-appreciated, typically more driven to do grand and noticable things. Prone to inferiority complexes, but also the one most likely to aim for the stars.

But, as someone said, this is more sociology than psychology, and as such this can vary a lot betwen families and groups, and based on your above statement it possibly isn't very applicable on yours, specifically.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby atteSmythe » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:12 pm

I like battle-priest Ansom. Great outfit, and certainly seems to fit his role right now.

I liked Tramennis' opening and ending, but his constant interjections made me want to smack him. It's ok, he's playing the antagonist, I'm allowed to want to smack him. :)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BoopingCynic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:19 pm

Why is everyone talking about sociology? I mean sure analyze Tramennis but all families are different no point trying to make guesses about their personalities from another point of view especially in Erfworld because they don't grow up they pop :roll: they don't go through a developing stage they just are, and technically all units popped by a city or to a larger extent a side are brothers and sisters because they all have the same mother, you can be related to anything and as in Jillian's case environment doesn't affect original personality to any great extent, she was "related" to a bunch of philosophers but she was a fighter. If you want to analyze Erfworlders and look at side, race and rank and you'll get... an unbelievably wide range of personalities from pacifist to madman. To analyze an Erfworlder look at stature, speaking mode, actions and body language... and then hope it isn't an act :ugeek:.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:26 pm

BoopingCynic wrote:Why is everyone talking about sociology?


Because it is there.

And we are here on the Erfworld forums, and by Gawd if there's a way to work Feynmann diagrams, Andrea Dworkin and the finer points of cheese-making in a speculative theory, we will.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BoopingCynic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:31 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
BoopingCynic wrote:Why is everyone talking about sociology?


Because it is there.

And we are here on the Erfworld forums, and by Gawd if there's a way to work Feynmann diagrams, Andrea Dworkin and the finer points of cheese-making in a speculative theory, we will.

True enough :lol:, even though the method of analyzing Erfworlders by our standards is ridiculous... but still funny.
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby nerf-dweller » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:51 pm

s-dub wrote:Another lurker comes up for air because of this comic =)

Tramennis reminds me of Mxyzptlk, both in stature and the way he is constantly needling the Superman-esque Ossomer.


Finally! That's who Tramennis reminds me of stylistically. That's been nagging me since the I read the page. He seemed so familiar, but I couldn't place him.

Edit: Correcting my misspelling of Tramennis. Going to be a hard habit to break.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Aris Katsaris » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:46 pm

BoopingCynic wrote:Why is everyone talking about sociology?


To a man with an Arkenhammer, everything looks like a dwagon.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Carlan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:02 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:Edit: Correcting my misspelling of Tramennis. Going to be a hard habit to break.


I'm going to start thinking of him as The Little Prince, even if I do have the cartoon jingle stuck in my head because of it.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby Moik » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:32 pm

There keeps being complaints coming up about the heads being smaller and more regular now, and phrased as though it's a flaw in artistic consistency. I posit that it's intentional, hinting that
Spoiler: show
Erfworlders are becoming more human/real over time. Potential link; Rob's spoiler about Parson's Friends.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 3

Postby BoopingCynic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 pm

Aris Katsaris wrote:
BoopingCynic wrote:Why is everyone talking about sociology?


To a man with an Arkenhammer, everything looks like a dwagon.


Wait, What? :|
Here lies a toppled God\
His fall was not a small one\
We did but build his pedestal\
A narrow and a tall one.
~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~
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