Book 2 - Page 4

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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Vex97 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:I have to say though, as a reader, I'm having trouble swallowing that Stanley is favoring Ansom over Parson. Given the extraordinary upkeep that comes with Parson, you'd think he'd be using him for something. The impression thus far is that he isn't using him for anything.


He is being used, but Stanley doesn't really know how to use him most effectively. Parson is incredibly expensive, seemingly fragile, and from an Erf native's perspective can bend aspects of reality with a thought.
Parson suggests things that are not only alien to Erfworlders (the whole concept of fighting in "real time") but due to his own unfamiliarity with Erf is occasionally baffled by the most basic Erf knowledge (see his attempted dragon flight).

For instance, it would be like someone showing you the correct way to insert a finger into a light socket that enabled you to shoot lightning bolts at people without frying yourself on the spot. Until this dubious knowledge could be proven to work to your satisfaction, you'd likely consider the person suggesting this to be either mean spirited or insane.

Then immediately afterward, your benefactor turns around and promptly walks face first into a wall and breaks his nose, despite you warning him that it was going to hurt.

That's the general interaction they have. Since Parson only knows that some of Erf's rules apply to him, he has to take everything with a grain of salt and find out the hard way. Every time it blows up in his face, people like Stanley have to wonder when one of his plans are also going to be incompatible with Erf.
Also, Stanley's a moron. He fights like Mike Tyson in his prime, but he plans like Mike Tyson now. :D
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:00 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Story-wise, I have trouble in the opposite direction. Stanley doesn't really like Parson. Stanley's already demoted Parson. And Stanley doesn't like Parson's tactics because they're too unconventional for his taste. Overall, I'm sure Ansom would have a much easier time getting his plans approved.

Parson may be unconventional but he succeeded. Ansom, meanwhile, was his enemy. Yes, he defeated Ansom. Yes, Ansom was decrypted. But so readily accepting his former enemy and appointing him as his Chief Warlord seems to go against the very heavy pride of Stanley. It isn't that I see Stanley having a problem with Parson but rather it is that Stanley so easily accepts Ansom.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby twidentitythief » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:01 pm

Glory of Arioch wrote:I'd like to see a full shot of Jack in his veiled armor kit. That looked cool.

So Gobwin Knob is committing all its fliers to attacking Jetstone? That's gonna leave GK's capital awfully open to a Jillian sortie...



1st Post, registered to say that veiled armor looks an awful lot like the dragoon from Final Fantasy 4, Kain or whatever his name was.

Here's a Decent Picture I think.
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/ff4ds/swf/ ... dcg_2s.jpg
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Nebulious » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 pm

"Casters and warlords, mount up!"

Note the plural. Unless he's ordering Wanda to take off, I wonder if there's someone else on this special mission.

HailGreen28 wrote:We saw Ansom pull some inspired tactics before: The Hunt, The Dance Disco Display.

They were called "ass-pulls" while he was the enemy. Now..... AWESOME! :D

And he played his brothers very well. Got them to say where their casters were, and didn't even crack a smile when saying "You're more commited to holding this bridge than I realized." Ansom has one hell of a poker-face.


For whose strategy this is, it could very well be a collaboration. Sure we know Ansom is jealous of Wanda's respect for Parson, but Ansom is the coalition builder and for a big fight like this I'm sure everyone spent a lot of time planning it. I think Ansom gets a lot of unwarranted dislike among the readership because he's the golden boy, the hansom, popular jock. He gets the girl before the story's even complete. Parson on the other hand is someone most of us more closely identify with. He's the gamer, the guy who wasn't popular because he spent all if his time immersed in tactical games. A lot of us want to believe that Parson is inherently better at tactics because he worked for it while Ansom simply popped perfect, royal title and all. However, Ansom wasn't set at level ten by Erfworld's AI. Yes, he was born with advantages, but he still earned his experience and power just like Parson did. We tend to forget that when Parson is just so easy for us to understand and see a validation of Paron's gaming skill as ours'. Well, that's how I've come to see it anyway.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Gez » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 pm

Vex97 wrote:The sourmander's eyebrows are also missing as been previously noted in this thread.

It's not a sourmander this time. It's a pink dwagon. This way, she, too, can fly.
Page 2: riding a sourmander. Notice large eyebrows and smooth skin.
Page 4: riding a dwagon. Notice dorsal spikes and dwagonish underbite. [url=http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F108.jpg]Sourmanders don't have underbite.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby badninja » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 pm

Whoops, I wonder who made the blunder here. :P I guess that this battle is going to be fast there seem to be quite a few fliers there and does Jetstone have the appropriate units to fight this way? Now are they going to take the casters alive or try and decrypt them? From what is given in the comic all would have some use to GK forces.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Hermod » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:03 pm

If Jack wasn't my favorite character before he certainly just earned it. Anyone who veils themself as Kain Highwind is clearly awesome...

But this raises many interesting question. What would a Kain unit be in Erfworld? My guess is as the patron saint of betraying the party he's be a Knight Class with natural Turnamancy. ;p

Actually that is worrying... I wonder if Jacks about to betray someone. Hmmm, Wanda or Parson...
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Vex97 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:Story-wise, I have trouble in the opposite direction. Stanley doesn't really like Parson. Stanley's already demoted Parson. And Stanley doesn't like Parson's tactics because they're too unconventional for his taste. Overall, I'm sure Ansom would have a much easier time getting his plans approved.

Parson may be unconventional but he succeeded. Ansom, meanwhile, was his enemy. Yes, he defeated Ansom. Yes, Ansom was decrypted. But so readily accepting his former enemy and appointing him as his Chief Warlord seems to go against the very heavy pride of Stanley. It isn't that I see Stanley having a problem with Parson but rather it is that Stanley so easily accepts Ansom.


If Ansom's brothers know that Ansom was denied use of casters at Gobwin Knob, you can bet Wanda does too. Parson almost certainly does, and eventually so would Stanley if this is the case.

Ansom answers to Wanda. Stanley is still fairly certain (although nervous) that Wanda answers to him. Better a free upkeep/heavily promoted warlord gets destroyed in battle than Parson. If nothing else, Parson is at least useful to Stanley to use his bracer on strategies Stanley understands.

The main point of this update, is that Ansom does have a somewhat predictable favored strategy, but the ultimate decision to only send swords to GK's spell fight was King Slately's. A position he has been forced to rethink after seeing what a defender who deploys casters can accomplish.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 pm

badninja wrote:Whoops, I wonder who made the blunder here. :P I guess that this battle is going to be fast there seem to be quite a few fliers there and does Jetstone have the appropriate units to fight this way? Now are they going to take the casters alive or try and decrypt them? From what is given in the comic all would have some use to GK forces.

I doubt that it will go fast. If they expected it to go quickly, I doubt they'd have bothered to have Parson even in the war room. Even if they would have had him there regardless, this battle isn't going to be over quickly. Ossomer and Tramennis are present together, they aren't going to be push overs or croak in a hurry. Also, all of Jetson's casters are present. They will be able to make this fight last. There is going to be a lot at stake in this fight so I don't expect a quick resolution.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Toolbreaker » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:10 pm

I think the flying strike force was veiled as seige in order to draw out Spacerocks most potent defenders to that hex. I also think that most if not all of the plan was Parson's and not Ansom's.

Ossamer and Tramenis anticipated, and probably correctly that Ansom would come with infantry and seige as that is what I believe to be his style. It was stated previously that Ansom was not impressed that Wanda vetted his plans and strategy through Parson.

Parson has been shown to be avoiding having his hand in any "bloodshed" sinse TBfGK. and thusly only shown a cursury interest in Wanda and Ansom's conquest. But for this upcoming battle he's in the situation room.

Stanly was upset that Parson was late getting to the situation room, implying to me anyway that Parson has a significant part to play in the strategy of this battle. Otherwise Stanly probably would have said something to the effect of "what are you doing here Hamster? Your supposed to be making my capital run more efficiently".

In Panel 8 Ansom says to Ossamer "You're more commited to holding this bridge than I realized". Could be a poker face to hide the ruse.... yes. But I don't think so. I dont' think Ansom truly believed this ruse would work and is truly surprised that his brother's fell for it.

Or I could be over analyzing and talking out my boop. Either way... love the comic and can't wait for Wednesday to see if the assault force does actually just fly over the Jetstone forces and assault Spacerock itself. :D
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby k33g0rz » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:12 pm

awesome, just awesome
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby OneHugeTuck » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Don't. Like. Wanda.

Repeat.


Love the unveil.

I'm guessing that the flyers fly over. Jetstones forces run to the castle. GK's troops then unveil and cross the bridge.

Ohhh, or double veil! That'd be fun.


Dittomancer. Awesome.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:14 pm

Toolbreaker wrote:I think the flying strike force was veiled as seige in order to draw out Spacerocks most potent defenders to that hex. I also think that most if not all of the plan was Parson's and not Ansom's.
It was most definitely Ansom's.

Panel 2 and Panel 7 pretty much tell you that much.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Joe22c. » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:15 pm

Dayumn, casters are friggin powerful in Erfworld.

Not just like Psi-storm powerful but game-altering. Dittomancers doubling leadership bonuses and surviving units? holy crap.

Anyways, has anyone else wondered why Ansom sticks with the magic carpet? I mean, I appreciate it because it's sentimental and kinda cool, but wouldn't Ansom be even more powerful mounted on a dragon?

Although perhaps the carpet is more maneuverable.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:19 pm

Vex97 wrote:If Ansom's brothers know that Ansom was denied use of casters at Gobwin Knob, you can bet Wanda does too. Parson almost certainly does, and eventually so would Stanley if this is the case.

Ansom answers to Wanda. Stanley is still fairly certain (although nervous) that Wanda answers to him. Better a free upkeep/heavily promoted warlord gets destroyed in battle than Parson. If nothing else, Parson is at least useful to Stanley to use his bracer on strategies Stanley understands.

The main point of this update, is that Ansom does have a somewhat predictable favored strategy, but the ultimate decision to only send swords to GK's spell fight was King Slately's. A position he has been forced to rethink after seeing what a defender who deploys casters can accomplish.

Unfortunately, most of what you are saying here doesn't really pertain to my issue. The tactic being used here is sound. If the plan was proposed and Stanley said he accepted it, that's fine. I'm not really questioning the update. But after four comics and summer updates, I'm still feeling like I just can't accept the use of Ansom of Parson. If anything, the fact that Ansom is Wanda's dog of war is even more of a reason I'd want to rely on Parson. Stanley likes to be in charge and using a former enemy that is under the control of someone who you aren't sure is on your side seems like he is giving up his control.

And while I don't think this is a major issue, this just isn't settling well with me. I think I really need to see some more motivation behind Stanley's decisions here.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Glenn » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:21 pm

If Ansom flies around the hex and captures the capital, then his brothers and most of Jetstone's army suddenly become barbarians. Then the question becomes, how long can Barbarian Ossomer pay the upkeep of his large barbarian army without access to Jetstone's resources? i suspect the answer is, not very long, and that Anson thinks much of Jetstone's former army will vanish for lack of resources before he has to fight it. Maybe Charlie's plan is for Jillian to save the day, not by arriving in time to save the capital and prevent Jetstone's army from being turned into Barbarians, but by arriving immediately afterwards, and hiring Ossomer and his Barbarian army with Charlie's money?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby gameboy1234 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:26 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:
badninja wrote:There is going to be a lot at stake in this fight so I don't expect a quick resolution.


I don't think there will be "quick resolution" either, but I think some of the immediate action will happen very fast. Stanley's big force of dwagons with lots of decrypted warlords is going right over the top and will head straight to Spacerock. Regular GK infantry and calvary will move up to the bridge. Then Ossomer will be left with a choice: stay at the bridge and hope the Spacerock defenses can withstand max stacks of dwagons and decrypted warlords.

Or retreat to defend Spacerock, while allowing GK infantry to take the bridge and attack Jetstone in the rear as they move to Spacerock.

Or split their forces and try to both hold the bridge and reinforce Spacerock.

It's a nasty trap that GK has laid, and there's no good ways out of it, unless Spacerock's air defenses are very, very tough.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Hermod » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:26 pm

Oh boop I'm dumb. I think I understand why he picked Kain. Spoilers not for new information, but to protect your eyes from FF4 spoilers.

Spoiler: show
Alright, Kain is the patron saint of betraying the party or heel faced turn. But the thing I didn't think about was why.

In game Kain is very close to the King's son Cecil. Cecil falls in love with a woman named Rosa who Kain has also fallen in love with.

Now let's plug in some Erfworld names. Jack was very close to Jillian, the daughter of the King. Jillian feel in love with Wanda... now I don't remembe anything stating that Jack loves Wanda, but it has alway seemed the reason for him switching sides. So there you have a pretty decent fit for the characters involved.

In FF4 the reason Kain betrayed the party was because an evil wizard exploited his love for Rosa to turn him against Cecil. Now of course it could just be an awesome reference, but I feel like reading into it. This could imply that Jack is under a loyalty spell or it could just be love to make him betray Jillian.

Now in FF4 Kain eventually broke such control and saved the world. So I wonder if we'll see Jack rejoining Faq. He's out on the field right now. With Jillian capture him and take him to her Turnamancer?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Mando Knight » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:26 pm

twidentitythief wrote:
Glory of Arioch wrote:I'd like to see a full shot of Jack in his veiled armor kit. That looked cool.

So Gobwin Knob is committing all its fliers to attacking Jetstone? That's gonna leave GK's capital awfully open to a Jillian sortie...



1st Post, registered to say that veiled armor looks an awful lot like the dragoon from Final Fantasy 4, Kain or whatever his name was.

Here's a Decent Picture I think.
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/ff4ds/swf/ ... dcg_2s.jpg
Yeah, I saw him, and immediately thought "Jack is Kain. Awesome."
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Toolbreaker » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:29 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:
Toolbreaker wrote:I think the flying strike force was veiled as seige in order to draw out Spacerocks most potent defenders to that hex. I also think that most if not all of the plan was Parson's and not Ansom's.
It was most definitely Ansom's.

Panel 2 and Panel 7 pretty much tell you that much.


Panel two only show's Ansom walking away looking dissapointed that his brothers wouldn't listen to reason and ally rather than fight. Seven is a very nice exposition of the types of casters Spacerock actually has and some even nicer info on what a Dittomancer can do. Neither of which confirm that this was Ansom's plan as he would have done it.

I'm sure Ansom had a hand in the strategy of this capital strike he is Chief Warlord after all. The very idea of driving straight to the capital to decaptate Jetstone was Ansom's idea. But I stil think that if left to his own devices with total control on how it played out that Ossamer would have been correct in his assumption of Seige and Infantry. Parson has meddled enough in what was Ansom's strategy that he needs to be in the situation room to take Stanly's fury over what ever goes wrong with it.
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