Book 2 - Page 4

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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby build6 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:30 pm

badninja wrote:Whoops, I wonder who made the blunder here. :P I guess that this battle is going to be fast there seem to be quite a few fliers there and does Jetstone have the appropriate units to fight this way? Now are they going to take the casters alive or try and decrypt them? From what is given in the comic all would have some use to GK forces.


ReccaSquirrel wrote:I doubt that it will go fast. If they expected it to go quickly, I doubt they'd have bothered to have Parson even in the war room. Even if they would have had him there regardless, this battle isn't going to be over quickly. Ossomer and Tramennis are present together, they aren't going to be push overs or croak in a hurry. Also, all of Jetson's casters are present. They will be able to make this fight last. There is going to be a lot at stake in this fight so I don't expect a quick resolution.


y'know, I don't think there's going to be a fight at all. At least not at the bridge.

Every unit Ansom mentioned in the last panel is a flying unit or mounted to fly - it seems like a Parson trick to get Jetstone to move everything to the bridge, and once confirmed ("in that hex there?"), they overfly it and hit the capital from the air. Fewer defenders (and only one caster left?) - easy (easier?) pickings.

EDIT: ok, finally got to the first page of posts (built up bad habit of reading back-to-front, since some threads have so many posts it's impossible to get through :-P), looks like quite a few guys have said it's gonna be a "skip round and hit capital" trick already :-)

anyways, looks like there's always some major flaw/weakness in Jetstone's princes eh? Ossomer talks/reveals too much. Ansom ... well we already know.

Hrm, then again maybe Ossomer was being cunning/lying? (seems doubtful, though)
Last edited by build6 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby yay » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:30 pm

Glenn wrote:If Ansom flies around the hex and captures the capital, then his brothers and most of Jetstone's army suddenly become barbarians. Then the question becomes, how long can Barbarian Ossomer pay the upkeep of his large barbarian army without access to Jetstone's resources? i suspect the answer is, not very long, and that Anson thinks much of Jetstone's former army will vanish for lack of resources before he has to fight it. Maybe Charlie's plan is for Jillian to save the day, not by arriving in time to save the capital and prevent Jetstone's army from being turned into Barbarians, but by arriving immediately afterwards, and hiring Ossomer and his Barbarian army with Charlie's money?


don't think they become barbarians, they still have other cities to call home. but if ansom does take spacerock in one turn he'll have to spend the next turn fighting his brothers trying to retake it. and if he can't take it in one turn he is going to get booped in the rear, because he will be stuck between a space rock and a hard place
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:30 pm

Glenn wrote:If Ansom flies around the hex and captures the capital, then his brothers and most of Jetstone's army suddenly become barbarians. Then the question becomes, how long can Barbarian Ossomer pay the upkeep of his large barbarian army without access to Jetstone's resources? i suspect the answer is, not very long, and that Anson thinks much of Jetstone's former army will vanish for lack of resources before he has to fight it. Maybe Charlie's plan is for Jillian to save the day, not by arriving in time to save the capital and prevent Jetstone's army from being turned into Barbarians, but by arriving immediately afterwards, and hiring Ossomer and his Barbarian army with Charlie's money?

I don't think will see Jillian come in just yet.

It was 18 turns past Goblin Knob that Jillian was asked to pop an Heir. This is now 72 turns past Goblin Knob. That means that Jillian is 6 or 7 turns away. This close to an heir popping, she's not going to go into an engagement against Stanley. Now. . . if the combat lasts at least 6 Turns, maybe then you'll see the arrival of Jillian. You won't see it before that point though.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby HailGreen28 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:31 pm

Glenn wrote:If Ansom flies around the hex and captures the capital, then his brothers and most of Jetstone's army suddenly become barbarians. Then the question becomes, how long can Barbarian Ossomer pay the upkeep of his large barbarian army without access to Jetstone's resources? i suspect the answer is, not very long, and that Anson thinks much of Jetstone's former army will vanish for lack of resources before he has to fight it. Maybe Charlie's plan is for Jillian to save the day, not by arriving in time to save the capital and prevent Jetstone's army from being turned into Barbarians, but by arriving immediately afterwards, and hiring Ossomer and his Barbarian army with Charlie's money?
I think units with no supported upkeep are disbanded. Like Uniroyal. Ossomer and Tramennis should stick around. Wonder how they would look in Wanda's livery? :twisted:
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ReccaSquirrel » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:32 pm

Toolbreaker wrote:
ReccaSquirrel wrote:
Toolbreaker wrote:I think the flying strike force was veiled as seige in order to draw out Spacerocks most potent defenders to that hex. I also think that most if not all of the plan was Parson's and not Ansom's.
It was most definitely Ansom's.

Panel 2 and Panel 7 pretty much tell you that much.


Panel two only show's Ansom walking away looking dissapointed that his brothers wouldn't listen to reason and ally rather than fight. Seven is a very nice exposition of the types of casters Spacerock actually has and some even nicer info on what a Dittomancer can do. Neither of which confirm that this was Ansom's plan as he would have done it.

I'm sure Ansom had a hand in the strategy of this capital strike he is Chief Warlord after all. The very idea of driving straight to the capital to decaptate Jetstone was Ansom's idea. But I stil think that if left to his own devices with total control on how it played out that Ossamer would have been correct in his assumption of Seige and Infantry. Parson has meddled enough in what was Ansom's strategy that he needs to be in the situation room to take Stanly's fury over what ever goes wrong with it.

The link was to Page 2 of the current book, not Page 4. My bad, sorry.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Toolbreaker » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:33 pm

Toolbreaker wrote:
ReccaSquirrel wrote:
Toolbreaker wrote:I think the flying strike force was veiled as seige in order to draw out Spacerocks most potent defenders to that hex. I also think that most if not all of the plan was Parson's and not Ansom's.
It was most definitely Ansom's.

Panel 2 and Panel 7 pretty much tell you that much.


Panel two only show's Ansom walking away looking dissapointed that his brothers wouldn't listen to reason and ally rather than fight. Seven is a very nice exposition of the types of casters Spacerock actually has and some even nicer info on what a Dittomancer can do. Neither of which confirm that this was Ansom's plan as he would have done it.

I'm sure Ansom had a hand in the strategy of this capital strike he is Chief Warlord after all. The very idea of driving straight to the capital to decaptate Jetstone was Ansom's idea. But I stil think that if left to his own devices with total control on how it played out that Ossamer would have been correct in his assumption of Seige and Infantry. Parson has meddled enough in what was Ansom's strategy that he needs to be in the situation room to take Stanly's fury over what ever goes wrong with it.


My appologies, I didn't actually click on the link to the page you referenced. Still... It is true that Parson has not lead a battle and doesn't lead this one either. He can't leave Gobwin Knob. And yes Ansom has done most everything up to this point. Doesn't change my assertion though.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby HailGreen28 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:35 pm

Nebulious wrote:For whose strategy this is, it could very well be a collaboration. Sure we know Ansom is jealous of Wanda's respect for Parson, but Ansom is the coalition builder and for a big fight like this I'm sure everyone spent a lot of time planning it. I think Ansom gets a lot of unwarranted dislike among the readership because he's the golden boy, the hansom, popular jock. He gets the girl before the story's even complete. Parson on the other hand is someone most of us more closely identify with. He's the gamer, the guy who wasn't popular because he spent all if his time immersed in tactical games. A lot of us want to believe that Parson is inherently better at tactics because he worked for it while Ansom simply popped perfect, royal title and all. However, Ansom wasn't set at level ten by Erfworld's AI. Yes, he was born with advantages, but he still earned his experience and power just like Parson did. We tend to forget that when Parson is just so easy for us to understand and see a validation of Paron's gaming skill as ours'. Well, that's how I've come to see it anyway.
Well put.

Collaboration would work. How about competition as a factor as well? Ansom definitely wants to prove himself. He has to "step up his own game", and prove his own brilliance, now that he has Parson as a rival.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Lord Kasavin » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:36 pm

badninja wrote:Whoops, I wonder who made the blunder here. :P I guess that this battle is going to be fast there seem to be quite a few fliers there and does Jetstone have the appropriate units to fight this way? Now are they going to take the casters alive or try and decrypt them? From what is given in the comic all would have some use to GK forces.


Actually, I think Spacerock has a chance. I didn't notice any fliers (and we know Jetstone and Unipegtaurs and Orlies at least) with the Jetstone army. That probably means they are back at the capital to defend it. THe problem is that the Dwagons almost certainly outnumber Jetstone defensives, and that becomes really true with the bonuses Wanda and Ansom apply (though uncroacked Dwagons don't get Wanda's bonus).
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby kjyl » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:37 pm

I think it is safe to say that Ansom on his own is a good warlord. Parson may or not had anything to do with the current plan, but it would not be outside the realm of the possible that it is/was all Ansom's idea. I think the talk on the bridge was more about trying to get his old side to ally with them then anything else, though, I am sure that Ansom is not above getting some good intel out of it.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Vex97 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:38 pm

Gez wrote:
Vex97 wrote:The sourmander's eyebrows are also missing as been previously noted in this thread.

It's not a sourmander this time. It's a pink dwagon. This way, she, too, can fly.


You are correct regarding the dwagon. I confused the montage battle art preceding the expository bridge's reveal. (My bad)

It just seems unlikely to me that Parson wouldn't warn Wanda about his conversation with Charlie, and that she would sit there at the front knowing that she might be wearing a bulls-eye. If Charlie thought it, there's a proven likelihood of him selling the info.

Specifically targeting overlords seems to be considered dirty pool among the nobles*, much as it used to be in the real world. But Wanda is neither noble, nor an overlord. From Jetstone's perspective, she is just an incredibly powerful warlord that puts Leroy Jenkins and friends to shame. Plus, that same dirty pool (the Bogroll assassination veil) is the very reason Jetstone now faces Ansom in battle.

*Stanley was also targeted, but only after he fled his capital during the siege. So he was not only a commoner, but a coward from their perspective.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby SteveMB » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:40 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
ReccaSquirrel wrote:
badninja wrote:There is going to be a lot at stake in this fight so I don't expect a quick resolution.


I don't think there will be "quick resolution" either, but I think some of the immediate action will happen very fast. Stanley's big force of dwagons with lots of decrypted warlords is going right over the top and will head straight to Spacerock. Regular GK infantry and calvary will move up to the bridge. Then Ossomer will be left with a choice: stay at the bridge and hope the Spacerock defenses can withstand max stacks of dwagons and decrypted warlords.

Or retreat to defend Spacerock, while allowing GK infantry to take the bridge and attack Jetstone in the rear as they move to Spacerock.

Or split their forces and try to both hold the bridge and reinforce Spacerock.


He can't retreat to the capital; it's not their turn and the forward deployment is in a different hex:

"Father approved deployment of casters to my command...."
"What? To that hex?"
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Miklus II » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:41 pm

The big question is: Where is Jillian now? Inside Spacerock with a ton of Archons...or standing by to attack GK? Both are good options.

I got the feeling that Ossomer and Tramennis are not as dumb as they look here. They MUST have some kind of trick prepared.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby John Campbell » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:41 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:I doubt that it will go fast. If they expected it to go quickly, I doubt they'd have bothered to have Parson even in the war room. Even if they would have had him there regardless, this battle isn't going to be over quickly. Ossomer and Tramennis are present together, they aren't going to be push overs or croak in a hurry. Also, all of Jetson's casters are present. They will be able to make this fight last. There is going to be a lot at stake in this fight so I don't expect a quick resolution.

Assuming that the fight happens where Ossomer, Tramennis, and all of the casters are, which I wouldn't put any money on.

Jetstone deployed a heavy force to that hex because they thought it had a high strategic value as a chokepoint that Ansom had to pass through to attack their capital. They committed a lot of forces, the princes, and most of their casters, because they figured that Ansom had to fight for that hex.

The bridge isn't a chokepoint for a flying force. It has little to no strategic value for Ansom; there's no reason he needs to take it, so there's no reason he needs to fight the force holding it. He can just fly right around all the warlords and casters and Jetstone troops and punch out their capital - which I believe means the side falls and the princes and their troops become barbarians. They can't even move to intercept him, because it's a turn-based game.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Darkside007 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Miklus II wrote:The big question is: Where is Jillian now? Inside Spacerock with a ton of Archons...or standing by to attack GK? Both are good options.

I got the feeling that Ossomer and Tramennis are not as dumb as they look here. They MUST have some kind of trick prepared.


They did. Casters and Jetstone's primary army.

Ansom, apparently, has a reputation for preferring infantry/seige columns when attacking. His brothers know this, and he knows they know it. So, he takes a setup vastly different from his normal force makeup and cloaks it to look like it, therein giving mental confirmation to his opponents; it's Ansom leading his standard force comp. Because Jetstone knows Ansom generally rolls that way, they were ready to curbstomp him. Instead, though, Ansom countered the counter.

In order for that to be Parson's idea, he'd need Ansom. Ansom doesn't need Parson for it to be all him. Give him some credit.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby slb » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:52 pm

Joe22c. wrote:Anyways, has anyone else wondered why Ansom sticks with the magic carpet? I mean, I appreciate it because it's sentimental and kinda cool, but wouldn't Ansom be even more powerful mounted on a dragon?
Although perhaps the carpet is more maneuverable.


... or has more move than the dwagons, and enemy could kill a dwagon but probably not the carpet, although obviously Ansom could be dismounted from his carpet like any other mount. Carpet advantage is therefore not obvious you're right.

Love Wanda and Jack art BTW :)
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby DivineDragoonKain » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:52 pm

I have to say, I was really surprised to see Kain here. :D For a fleet moment, I wondered if Erfworld had Dwagoons.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Nebulious » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:53 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:Collaboration would work. How about competition as a factor as well? Ansom definitely wants to prove himself. He has to "step up his own game", and prove his own brilliance, now that he has Parson as a rival.


See, this is what I believe is Ansom's strength. With the exception of ideology, he can step above the petty. He can work with sides like Sofa King and Charlescom to get the job done. I think the only real frustration in the summer update was that Wanda insisted on vetting every plan, big and small, with Parson. This offensive is just too important.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby Vex97 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:56 pm

ReccaSquirrel wrote:Unfortunately, most of what you are saying here doesn't really pertain to my issue. The tactic being used here is sound. If the plan was proposed and Stanley said he accepted it, that's fine. I'm not really questioning the update. But after four comics and summer updates, I'm still feeling like I just can't accept the use of Ansom of Parson. If anything, the fact that Ansom is Wanda's dog of war is even more of a reason I'd want to rely on Parson. Stanley likes to be in charge and using a former enemy that is under the control of someone who you aren't sure is on your side seems like he is giving up his control.

And while I don't think this is a major issue, this just isn't settling well with me. I think I really need to see some more motivation behind Stanley's decisions here.


That's because you think like Parson. Stanley not only thinks like an Erfworlder, but is widely considered an idiot by them. He did manage to lose everything except Gobwin Knob, after all.

I doubt Stanley sees anything more complicated than the numbers associated with a unit. Their stats, upkeep, etc. Since loyalty is hidden, Stanley probably distrusts everyone and intentionally hampers their ability out of jealousy and paranoia. Fortunately, he's easy to trick.

Stanley 's hammer is very appropriate. Its an old control metaphor. Would you rather be the hammer or the nail? He definitely isn't the carpenter wielding the hammer. He IS the hammer. Stanley can drive nails like nobody's business, but he doesn't know how to build anything. You just tell him where to nail and he does, but that's all he does. He's a surprisingly complicated character who knows that he needs to be led, but who is too proud to admit it thanks to being an overlord and "favored by the Titans".

Stanley doesn't trust Ansom, or course. He doesn't trust anyone, including himself. He's already noticed how much more control Wanda has over the pliers than he does his hammer. The story has more or less set Stanley up to either have a change of heart and begin listening to his tactical advisor (Parson), or he will probably be forced from power to prevent sabotaging GK's victories.

There's a good reason it doesn't sit well with you. It isn't working as well as it could be, and there have been many hints along the way that something is very wrong with Stanley the Plaid.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby ftl » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:06 pm

Scott Frantz wrote:So I'll be the first to guess at Cubbins as a Hat Magician.


Wow. Nice call! Based on the naming conventions, I'd be willing to bet on that being right.

Nebulious wrote:"Casters and warlords, mount up!"

Note the plural. Unless he's ordering Wanda to take off, I wonder if there's someone else on this special mission.


Jack is there.

Though I'm not sure that it's wise keeping him on the front lines permanently, probably best to keep casters safe except for special missions like this. Unless Ansom has a specific plan for him past this point, it's probably better to dwagon-relay him back to safety, away from the front...
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Re: Book 2 - Page 4

Postby KiltedNinja » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:09 pm

wow...

There's an unbelievable sense of "Game On"... fantastic ^_^
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