Book 2 – Page 5

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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby dannom » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:34 pm

Why would Ansom's brothers assume that the flyers would not be used in the up coming battle?
Not seeing any flyers with the siege troops prior to the unveiling should signal that they are elsewhere and the city still needs to be defended against them.
For example they could be several hex behind and still could be used against the city.

I also judge that Ossomer made a point to mention that locations of the casters. Just scoring points on Ansom seems a weak reason, more likely it was some sort of misinformation.

Also how do we know that there is some magic that can't move casters between hexes. The portal to the Magic Kingdom works when its not your turn and other "defensive" magics may allow relocation as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Elhoim » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:55 pm

I really dislike Wanda's current look... She looked so awesome in Page Two... Too bad you didn't keep that look for longer...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby XR4-IT » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:03 pm

Wanda’s new look makes me think of Rocky Horror Picture Show

I like it!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby zippomage » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:08 pm

I also judge that Ossomer made a point to mention that locations of the casters. Just scoring points on Ansom seems a weak reason, more likely it was some sort of misinformation.


Agreed. My dreadsense began tingling. Why is he being so forth-coming with such very critical information. I don't know what kind of bonuses knight-class units get against casters, but my first reaction to that info would be sending invisible Archons on a slaughter fest. The fact that Gobwin Knob seems reliant on flying type units thus far might become something of a lynchpin one of these fights.

Honestly, I expected Ansom to be a really bad decision, but I suppose he must have gotten to be Chief warlord of the Alliance somehow. I think his biggest weakness is still is utterly bottomless well of confidence. Might be my inner-loser, but I just don't think he got there out of pure competence. Reminds me of too many football golden-boys. Color me biased, see if I care. But the Lord Hamsters genius as well as his poor grasp of the way Erfworld works makes him far more dangerous. Volcanic incident as proof.

UNLEASH THE HAMSTER!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby DevilDan » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:15 pm

dannom wrote:Also how do we know that there is some magic that can't move casters between hexes. The portal to the Magic Kingdom works when its not your turn and other "defensive" magics may allow relocation as well.

That sort of hack would allow you to fly a small contingent in upon fast-movers that could then "teleport" in siege units and heavies, meaning that you could have a tough strike force capable of taking down a city in a single turn and without a bit of warning. If that were possible even only between cities, you'd be able to move a strike force well across the world in a single turn, completely changing the rules of war.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby John Campbell » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:23 pm

dstorrs wrote:Also, what's up with the Bride of Frankenstein hair, garter-belt, and no-pants-whatsoever? Oh Wanda, I weep for you.


She's dressed as Magenta from the end of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Which is okay with me, except that it gives me this terrible vision of Sizemore as Riff-Raff in the same scene. Actually, I guess that isn't any worse than actual Riff-Raff.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby ideasmith » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:26 pm

Between http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg (panel three) and http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F036.jpg (panel twelve), I gather that Wanda can cast both lookamancy and findamancy, either of which is likely 'more direct' than sending scouts.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:27 pm

I think all of Jillian's air force is holed up in those tents. So selective engagement by GK's fliers against that hex will result in a rude surprise.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Menas » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:49 pm

Personally, I don't think that much of Ansom's plan. The tactic was sound, but everything surrounding it was foolish. Showing your entire hand when the enemy hasn't done so and could have an ace in the hole - not that smart. Ossomer could be playing him for a fool.

Not scouting before attacking = stupid. Dispelling the veil before it was absolutely necessary = incredibly stupid. There was absolutely no reason for Ansom to dispel the veil when he did except to feed his own vanity (and maybe to get the readers of the strip a litle excited lol ;) ).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Dahak » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:03 pm

dannom wrote:I also judge that Ossomer made a point to mention that locations of the casters. Just scoring points on Ansom seems a weak reason, more likely it was some sort of misinformation.


I'll note all the casters mentioned were the ones Ansom knew about. They thus don't seem to have included any ex Unaroyal ones. Spacerock is a logical place for them to have hired on.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:05 pm

Menas wrote:Not scouting before attacking = stupid. Dispelling the veil before it was absolutely necessary = incredibly stupid. There was absolutely no reason for Ansom to dispel the veil when he did except to feed his own vanity (and maybe to get the readers of the strip a litle excited lol ;) ).


I don't think dispelling the veil was stupid; it's GK turn, so it's not like Jetstone could do anything about it right now. And it seems he can't use the archons to relay thinkagramms when they are veiled. And not sending scouts was very likely part of the plan; that way he could pretend that his troops consisted of infantry and siege.

I'll note all the casters mentioned were the ones Ansom knew about. They thus don't seem to have included any ex Unaroyal ones. Spacerock is a logical place for them to have hired on.


Don't forget about the HobitTM, Hyatt, Sofa King, FoxMud and Transylvito casters.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby GobwinPie » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Raza wrote:"Flying stacks led by warlords can selectively engage non flyers" - remember that good stuff?

They can grab whoever they want and all they'll take is return-fire from their specific target and what Ossomer's got for archery.

My hope's on a caster.


Maybe. I just feel uneasy about all this. Narrative causality suggests that succeeding at just croaking one of a side's top two warlords (and two of the only new antagonists that were set up for this chapter) within the first 10 pages is unlikely.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby SteveMB » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:I don't think dispelling the veil was stupid; it's GK turn, so it's not like Jetstone could do anything about it right now. And it seems he can't use the archons to relay thinkagramms when they are veiled. And not sending scouts was very likely part of the plan; that way he could pretend that his troops consisted of infantry and siege.

I hadn't thought of that, but it seems like the obvious (and, based on what we know so far, perhaps the only) explanation for why Thinkagrams are now "available" (implying that they weren't until just now). As for scouting, with turn-based movement and the oddities of how time works in Erfworld, sending scouts now wouldn't be any less effective than having sent them before getting to the bridge.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby yay » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:31 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
I'll note all the casters mentioned were the ones Ansom knew about. They thus don't seem to have included any ex Unaroyal ones. Spacerock is a logical place for them to have hired on.


Don't forget about the HobitTM, Hyatt, Sofa King, FoxMud and Transylvito casters.


Unaroyals left over casters where a changemancer, carnymancer, turnamancer (now with FAQ), and something else...
the tents could be from the carney mancer, that would be a crazy start to a fight

someone already said this, but Spacerock is probably full of allies (including casters). its similar to ansom sending only Jetstone and marbits into the tunnels instead of risking allies... also could just be jillian to counter an air raid, which would be awesome if slately had to swallow his pride and depend on the "barbarian" he had mocked

Edit: last Unaroyal caster was a findamancer, possible could have been used to predict the dwagon and archon air-waid...maybe, not sure what he does
Last edited by yay on Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Menas » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:34 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
Menas wrote:Not scouting before attacking = stupid. Dispelling the veil before it was absolutely necessary = incredibly stupid. There was absolutely no reason for Ansom to dispel the veil when he did except to feed his own vanity (and maybe to get the readers of the strip a litle excited lol ;) ).


I don't think dispelling the veil was stupid; it's GK turn, so it's not like Jetstone could do anything about it right now. And it seems he can't use the archons to relay thinkagramms when they are veiled. And not sending scouts was very likely part of the plan; that way he could pretend that his troops consisted of infantry and siege.


-->It's GK turn, so it's not like Jetstone could do anything about it right now.

GK is now in the position of gathering intelligence with the veil blown. So they may or may not end up doing any attacking this turn. If the GK forces end up not performing any actions this turn that would have dispelled the veil, then the RCC2 forces wil be able to take actions next turn with knowledge they wouldn't have otherwise had. Tactically, It was a poor choice.

-->And it seems he can't use the archons to relay thinkagramms when they are veiled.

This may be true. But right now the evidence is still circumstantial. We don't know this for a fact. If this is true, then dispelling the veil may have been necessary. If not, then it's still a poor choice.

-->And not sending scouts was very likely part of the plan; that way he could pretend that his troops consisted of infantry and siege.

He could still have pretended this no problem. Having some air units scouting would not have destroyed the rest of the illusion. Now they're stuck gathering intelligence in a combat situation when they should already have the facts they needed at hand. If they get intelligence that indicates attacking isn't a viable option, then they'll have to retreat and their forces will be in jeopardy. If they'd checked things out before hand they wouldn't have needed to risk their forces to find out what they already could have known.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Spot » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:39 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I think all of Jillian's air force is holed up in those tents. So selective engagement by GK's fliers against that hex will result in a rude surprise.


I think you might be right.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Darkside007 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:40 pm

Menas, that requires Jetstone can respond to the new information recieved; they can't. Either they prepped for a dragon ambush or they didn't, they can't make those preparations now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Menas » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:54 pm

Darkside007 wrote:Menas, that requires Jetstone can respond to the new information recieved; they can't. Either they prepped for a dragon ambush or they didn't, they can't make those preparations now.


That's assuming they can't. They might have some surprises in store that we're not aware of. In the event that they do, they now know exactly what the nature of Ansom's forces are.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby Lothmar » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:54 pm

Well sure they cant extensively prepare for what they now know, however the longer GK take's the more time the units in each individual hex / cityspace have to react and prepare because even though the world is turn based they can still do alot of stuff in real time on the opponents turn, heck GK ended up doing alot of stuff/damage during the coalitions turns.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 5

Postby multilis » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:08 pm

Menas wrote:He could still have pretended this no problem. Having some air units scouting would not have destroyed the rest of the illusion. Now they're stuck gathering intelligence in a combat situation when they should already have the facts they needed at hand. If they get intelligence that indicates attacking isn't a viable option, then they'll have to retreat and their forces will be in jeopardy. If they'd checked things out before hand they wouldn't have needed to risk their forces to find out what they already could have known.

I disagree. One has to pretend to be a fool in order to pull off a ruse. If Ansom scouted too well, then moved up "siege engines" when obvious that even Ansom may realise the siege engines would fail, the enemy would better suspect the foolomancy.

As well, scouting carries risks/you may lose units and give away intel about what you have and where.

Agreed that Ansom shouldn't have dispelled veil before consulting on what was next so other side didn't have more time to plan/react than needed, though depending on the mechanics of game that may have only made a few seconds difference, as scouting or whatever Wanda plans may give away the surprise.

Ansom is using his attack style on GK to the best he could now to play the fool, in that case he *had* to go blind because GK had superior airpower (dragons backed by attunement), and his airpower/Jillian was reckless when told to scout. IMO Ansom and his brothers are very similar, good conventional commanders capable of some suprise plus keeping reserves in emergency, but overconfident. (In GK, Ansom keeping Jillian in reserve saved his butt)

Interesting to find out what is missing, the extra piece that may explain why the Jetstones revealed their casters being in the stack, and perhaps also linked to why Don wanted heirs popped, and the renting of Uniroyal or other casters. I will guess they have extra nasty reserve at home similar to book 1 with Ansom/Jillian and they prefered to fight on *their* turn so that extra reserve could also be called in if helpful.
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