Book 2 – Page 6

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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby splintermute » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:19 pm

As to the issue of whether the archons are using a shock/foolamancy spell, natural shock/foolamancy, or another natural ability, and the issue of how the flash mob might be affecting female/homosexual Jetstone troops, and the issue of how shocking their display actually is in the context of previous examples of shockamancy (such as the scrolls Sizemore used Book 1), keep in mind that we're only seeing the display from behind - we have no idea what the enemy army is actually seeing. The archons might be using foolamancy or shockamancy to create the appearance of anomalous or disproportionate breasts and/or genitalia - imagine how shocked you would be if confronted by a tiny archon with 52DD breasts, or by "Archons with Dicks".

Also, I sincerely apologize if I have put that image in anyone's head.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:11 pm

atteSmythe wrote:The above is exactly how I view the intent of the flash...which is why I'm a bit confused as to the significance of whether or not the Archons are using magic to execute it. So long as what they're doing masks the casting of the displacement, mission accomplished.


This is my take:
Flash Mob: Distraction, prevents army from noticing something.
Jack's description of a "Shock" on leader stack: Outright stun, preventing stack from reacting unless attacked. All attacks are concentrated on a single target, while others are unable to react due to stun.

I don't see the naked flash being able to prevent someone from attacking, so I'm assuming there is more potent shockamancy coming soon. If the flash mob ends up being the flash that stunned Ossomer's stack, I would consider that to be absolute proof that magic was involved.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Pointyleaf » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:30 pm

Well, the comic never said that they were flashing the whole hex.. only "the target stack".

I wonder what Jack's spell will consist of, and how it will be used. "A simple displacement".. hm.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby HailGreen28 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:35 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
HailGreen28 wrote:I don't know why everybody's confused about the effects of what the Archons are doing. Women have this same super power in real life. :P


You've never been to New Orleans, have you?
Hmmm. If beads are worth schmuckers in Erfworld, GK might have an additional source of revenue on top of the "distraction" superpower.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby SandroTheMaster » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:44 am

Hmm... a lot of people is arguing about the effectiveness of the Flash Mob on non-males and gays. Well, there's the fact it is also magic, that's granted. All in all, it seems to be Shockamancy.

HOWEVER: So far the Sexuality in Erfworld seems to be pretty obscure. Since the fact that it is absolutely unnecessary, it means that man-woman relations aren't necessarily norm, and Jillian is a proof that bisexuality isn't even something one'd raise an eyebrow for. I'm pretty sure it was raised before, but there's enough evidence to imply that, in Erfworld, everyone is Bi. Not just because of Jillian, but also because of some pretty obvious male-on-male attractions, Stanley's initial ideals of warlords (just take the most handsome in the troops and promote him), the Archons overly sexualized relation with each other, etc... Maybe the idea of heterosexual relations as the norm would be just puzzling for them, who'd believe anyone could hook with anyone else. If you take procreation out of the picture for the sexual act, it is just a "bonus", as to speak.

So, what I'm trying to get to is: Flash Mob would be effective against everybody, probably. Male and Female alike, as long as the ones doing the flashing are using magic and are pretty.

Does it makes any kind of sense? I never truly know.

EDIT: There is the conversation Parson has with Maggie where she is overly delighted in rushing to macho stereotypes to make fun of Parson, but that could be just general attitude towards males. In that same conversation it is implied that everyone is having fun with the Archons, and that'd include the balanced ratio of females. Maybe? That talk was still pretty vague though...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby warriortribble » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:13 am

splintermute wrote:The archons might be using foolamancy or shockamancy to create the appearance of anomalous or disproportionate breasts and/or genitalia - imagine how shocked you would be if confronted by a tiny archon with 52DD breasts, or by "Archons with Dicks".
Well played sir. Now, if you will excuse me, I must imbibe some liquid of the alcoholic persuasion.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Infidel » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:53 am

Gez wrote:Still, the Erfworld wiki contains a duplicated archive that's much easier to navigate than this Wordpress mess.
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/ ... f_Contents


Cool, next time I'm trying to look something up quickly, I'll use the wiki. Thanks Gez.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Infidel » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:00 am

gameboy1234 wrote:
I think "my good lord" is just a quaint (as in old-fashioned) term of address.


If that were so, then Jack wouldn't only use it for Parson. He'd use it for Stanley and Ansom too.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:27 am

MarbitChow wrote:Huh. And here I was thinking that, if something appeared natural, you actually had to make the case to prove that it was magical.
Or is the default assumption in Erfworld that everything is magical, and every single action gets classified as some sort of *mancy?
Is asking a girl if she likes you "natural date-amancy"?

Note that I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I'm just wondering what the default assumptions people are operating off of.
If *everything* in Erfworld is magical, I'll gladly concede the point that it's clearly natural shockamancy (or natural naughtymancy), if that's the set of assumptions we're working with.


I was thinking it was a group display of shockmancy (though I could imagine how thinkamancy/foolamancy could also fit the bill). I guess it might not be magical, but if not one would wonder if Wanda flying over and flashing or a couple of male warlords getting their kit off would achieve the same. Or even if it did how it could have such an effect as "the enemy can see nothing else in this hex" without some sort of mancy being involved.

The context to me just seems to imply something greater is going on then four Archons opening their shirts and everyone in the target hex simply being struck so dumb ("Look! Bewbs!" or "Look away! Bewbs!") that they can no longer see anything else in the hex where their enemies are flying around on mass.

However as we know some Archons have shockmancy, we know that at least one of its uses can be to stun the enemy, and there are a few plays going on with "flash mob" - the obvious couple, plus "flash" in a blinding/distracting sense (like a flash/bang) perhaps. And the whole group thing, the Archon didn't need to be told what to do or numbers needed, which would suggest "Flash Mobbing" as a obscuring tactic is something requiring certain conditions be met.

So since a "Flash Mob" seems like a recognized tactic (for Archons at least) Ossomer, Trem, their warlords etc might also know what a Flash mob is. So if *mancy isn't involved... well, then we have a number of high level characters, possible aware of what a flash mob is, still being taken in completely and utterly by something non-magical being done by four units some distance off.

So I look at examples that closely mirror our normal human reactions, and I assume that, if it seems like a natural reaction, it is.
And a bunch of ladies flashing themselves would naturally act as a distraction, either to make the observer stare intently or look away in disgust (depending on orientation / prudishness).


Heh, if only Napoleon had some naked women at Waterloo he may have been able to totally blindside his enemies while they stood mesmerized/embarrassed by the nudity they were witnessing. :)

I see what you are saying, but considering the context here (two armies about to do battle/the fate of the capital hangs in the balance) and the impact (the flash mob is completely preventing the Jetstone forces from seeing into the opposing hex) it seems to go beyond "normal human reactions" to seeing a bit of skin flashed.

It *isn't* likely to immediately make the target think "They are flashing us, so what *don't* they want us to see?"
That level of suspicion might reside in another Foolamancer, or someone as paranoid as Parson, but not in your standard stabber, or even your basic Warlord type.


Perhaps true for stabbers and such, but we have the Chief Warlord and co also affected - so if you could see into the opposing hex, and then suddenly you couldn't you might be suspicious. And if a mancy is involved then there would be nothing you could do about the effects of the Flash Mob.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby shneekeythelost » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:48 am

Yanno... Ossomer and Tremennis *DOES* have "ALL the Jetstone Casters... except Cubbins"... it's quite likely they've got a caster who can negate the 'Flash Mob's effect, and quite possibly pierce Jack's Displacement as well. The squad sent to capture might end up in some deep boop...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Infidel » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:56 am

SandroTheMaster wrote:So, what I'm trying to get to is: Flash Mob would be effective against everybody, probably. Male and Female alike, as long as the ones doing the flashing are using magic and are pretty.

Does it makes any kind of sense? I never truly know.


You make sense, but I don't think getting "everyone" to look has anything to do with sexual orientation as so many people here are trying to make out, even if magic was not involved at all. Jack isn't trying to get everyone to stare, he just wants to distract them for a little longer than an instant so he can cast without anyone realizing it. Getting everyone to notice something is a lot different from getting everyone to rubberneck.

All you need is at least one person in visual range of every other person to turn, point, and make some exclamation, like, "Wow! Check that out!" And everyone with good hearing, the ability to turn and look, and who don't deliberately make an effort NOT to look, will look. The more people turning, pointing, and looking, the more inevitable that everyone else will try to see what the others are pointing at. And that's all Jack wanted. Then enhance their display with a helpful red glow to contrast them with the countryside, and draw attention, and it's a done deal. Ever played "Made you look!" as a kid? From there, it doesn't matter if the entire army decides that the pretties aren't pretty enough. Honestly, the archons could have been fugly and still had the same effect. People would have just been pointing for a different reason. Magicians use misdirection and distraction every day without even bothering with sexual references. Then again, some magician shows have lots of pretties in skimpy dresses.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Sokrotes » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:43 am

I have to completely agree with MarbitChow, i dunno if this is or isnt a actual spell or natural spell but im getting a bit annoyed when people assume every single thing is magic based. If ur not a caster and very few other units u probably cant cast spells. There are types of cobra that can squirt venom from there fangs using holes at the tip that point outward, in erfworld that could be a natural ability, or how Bats can "see" useing sonar. Erfworld is set in a almost medieval time period, and in our own history during that time people believed in magic and superstition. Now im not saying there is NO magic in erfworld, i just think not as much as people make it out to be. Now take this for example, Jack is a magician, and i suspect hes going to make Ansom appear to be something else, much like Bogroll looking like Parson. But of course Ossamar and Tremenis are watching Ansom like a hawk, Jack needs a way to make them look away. Bam put a couple of hot chicks up flashing people right in front of jack and Ansom. Its like a magician making u look at one hand as the other pulls the rabbit out from under the table. Its a simple case of misdirection that takes no magic, just illusion like magicians use in real life. Besides girls would go, "eww a naked girl" and gay guys would probably go "eww naked girls." while straight guys or lez girls are like "oh wow!" and if ur bi, a combination of the both, lol.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby oslecamo2 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:15 am

Except that it has been confirmed that:
1-Plenty of creatures have "natural mancy", like twolls being able to create simple items and scouts sending mental reports from afar.

2-Archons in particular get random natural mancy abilities from a wide array of schools of magic. That's what makes them so usefull.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby crazyguy_co » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:38 am

MarbitChow wrote:Is asking a girl if she likes you "natural date-amancy"?

.


to be honest, my interpretation of "date-a-mancy" was horoscopes and astrology or else history, not dating. no evidence for it other than it being "numbers" rather than Fate. totally off topic, just showing how two minds can verge so much when we don't have any supporting evidence :)



and regarding the other topic i was discusssing-

after re reading, and seeing Jack use the word "shock" specifically (how did i miss that before), I will agree, i was wrong, i think it is shockomancy. And noticably weaker than the aoe stun bomb and the exploding crap golem... just as girls flashing is far less "shocking" than tubgirl ((brain bleach me!)).

I tend to think its clear its natural magic though... seems ANYTHING useful someone can do in erfworld is directly related to a stat or is magic. Heck, changing outfits requires magic even...

Heck all this talk that "flashing" would distract "anyone" without being magic is silly. We're not talking about frat boys and soroity girls and nuns and teenagers. We're talking discplined soldiers and military commanders. I've SEEN the buckingham palace guards not so much as glance at a girl who flashed them, and they are only for show... you're trying to argue that many trained soldiers, and their officers, are so undisciplined that with the enemy in sight they'd be distracted by a little nudity that WASN'T magical. not buying it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:04 am

crazyguy_co wrote:Heck all this talk that "flashing" would distract "anyone" without being magic is silly. We're not talking about frat boys and soroity girls and nuns and teenagers. We're talking discplined soldiers and military commanders. I've SEEN the buckingham palace guards not so much as glance at a girl who flashed them, and they are only for show... you're trying to argue that many trained soldiers, and their officers, are so undisciplined that with the enemy in sight they'd be distracted by a little nudity that WASN'T magical. not buying it.

Exactly my thinking...
We are not talking about girls simply flashing their girly parts, but girls flashing their girly parts who LITERALLY can not be ignored when looking into that hex. The ONLY way the flash mob would make it so that no one could see into the hex, is if everyone looking into the hex was forced to focus on the archons. Frankly, i think normally, most people would be to damn worried about the army of Dwagons that are preparing to either croak you or attack your city to give the archons a second thought... Seems like some magic would have to be at play here... you couple this with that FACT that mundane tasks such as basket weaving are considered a form of natural dollamancy, then ya, i'd say something like "flashing" that draws all of the enemy's focus is probably some form of natural shockamancy...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby theseus2x » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:10 am

MonteCristo wrote:Exactly my thinking...
We are not talking about girls simply flashing their girly parts, but girls flashing their girly parts who LITERALLY can not be ignored when looking into that hex. The ONLY way the flash mob would make it so that no one could see into the hex, is if everyone looking into the hex was forced to focus on the archons. Frankly, i think normally, most people would be to damn worried about the army of Dwagons that are preparing to either croak you or attack your city to give the archons a second thought... Seems like some magic would have to be at play here... you couple this with that FACT that mundane tasks such as basket weaving are considered a form of natural dollamancy, then ya, i'd say something like "flashing" that draws all of the enemy's focus is probably some form of natural shockamancy...


Right. I don't care HOW incredible the boobies are. There's no way to miss a flight of Dwagons without using SOME kind of actual magic, natural or otherwise.

And again : Not all of Jetstone's Warlords are male.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby theseus2x » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:25 am

shneekeythelost wrote:Yanno... Ossomer and Tremennis *DOES* have "ALL the Jetstone Casters... except Cubbins"... it's quite likely they've got a caster who can negate the 'Flash Mob's effect, and quite possibly pierce Jack's Displacement as well. The squad sent to capture might end up in some deep boop...


Pbbbt... bucket of cold water would have the same effect. :oops:

Seriously, though - IMHO, Ansom would probably know if Jetstone had such a caster.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Darkside007 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:44 am

Sokrotes wrote:I have to completely agree with MarbitChow, i dunno if this is or isnt a actual spell or natural spell but im getting a bit annoyed when people assume every single thing is magic based. If ur not a caster and very few other units u probably cant cast spells.


Scouting uses elements of Natural Thinkamancy. Archons have Shockamancy as a school to pull specials out of. Twolls have a limited form of Dollamancy because they can make things.

On the one hand, the people who call everything Signamancy are just annoying, on the other, it's established that magic is pretty much everywhere in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Nebulious » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:49 am

Sokrotes wrote:I have to completely agree with MarbitChow, i dunno if this is or isnt a actual spell or natural spell but im getting a bit annoyed when people assume every single thing is magic based. If ur not a caster and very few other units u probably cant cast spells. There are types of cobra that can squirt venom from there fangs using holes at the tip that point outward, in erfworld that could be a natural ability, or how Bats can "see" useing sonar. Erfworld is set in a almost medieval time period, and in our own history during that time people believed in magic and superstition. Now im not saying there is NO magic in erfworld, i just think not as much as people make it out to be. Now take this for example, Jack is a magician, and i suspect hes going to make Ansom appear to be something else, much like Bogroll looking like Parson. But of course Ossamar and Tremenis are watching Ansom like a hawk, Jack needs a way to make them look away. Bam put a couple of hot chicks up flashing people right in front of jack and Ansom. Its like a magician making u look at one hand as the other pulls the rabbit out from under the table. Its a simple case of misdirection that takes no magic, just illusion like magicians use in real life. Besides girls would go, "eww a naked girl" and gay guys would probably go "eww naked girls." while straight guys or lez girls are like "oh wow!" and if ur bi, a combination of the both, lol.


This. Very this. Jack's looking for a few seconds where no one is looking at him so he can cast without rousing suspicion. The Archons will probably assault the stack with some real attacks giving literal meaning to Jack's statement if you note the order of the battle plan.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:17 pm

Darkside007 wrote:Scouting uses elements of Natural Thinkamancy. Archons have Shockamancy as a school to pull specials out of. Twolls have a limited form of Dollamancy because they can make things.

On the one hand, the people who call everything Signamancy are just annoying, on the other, it's established that magic is pretty much everywhere in Erfworld.


Which is why I'm trying to figure out what the assumptions are.

We see the bats using "Scouting" as an ability (VInnie looking through their eyes). But we see Jillian 'scouting' by moving through hexes and sending reports. Scouting is a magical ability, and it also is a mundane action.

We see Twolls using "Fabrication" (special ability), but we're also pretty sure that, given basic materials, Parson could 'fabricate' something.

So the real question, which it doesn't look like we're ever going to settle conclusively, is whether the Flash Mob is "Shocking", or just shocking / distracting; also whether the Archons are "Stunning", or just *stunning*. :D
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