Book 2 – Page 6

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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:24 pm

Ytaker wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I know girls who'd respond the same.

Although in this context at least she'd need good eyes, as we can see the archons, small statured to say the least, are some distance away from the people they are flashing - which to my mind also adds to the implication magic is involved.


Small stature but large proportioned, if you know what I mean. The distance means people would have to really stare to get a good look, adding to the effect. Even from several hundred feet away, you can see the breasts quite easily, maybe make out nipples. The fact that they're not doing anything magical suggests to me that it's not magical. And there is no magical school called flashamancy.


True, and fair, to just have a look, though I was also referring to the "check their breasts for deformities, and compare their shape, size, and "boob things" to her own" bit, I just don't know if I would trust a breast assessment at the distance shown here. Beyond "They look nice from here" or something like that. ;)

And true, not overtly magical (no flashing lights and what have you) but the results still seem to suggest some magic should be involved. Mainly since the effect of the flash mob seems to be preventing the enemy from seeing anything in their opponents hex while it is active.

And none of it has to be explained - Jack just says "If we use a flash to cover casting" and Wanda just has to say "Form a flash mob". So "flashing" seems to be a tactic/ability/action with recognizable effects and certain outcomes. It seems from this page then that either a. certain units, maybe only when in a group/mob, have the ability to block the enemies view of a hex by using magic and a material component in the form of a bit of flashing or b. completely non-magical nudity (even at a distance) is so potent in Erfworld it is something leaders know they can use against their enemies with guaranteed results.

multilis wrote:If they had time, then not asking Parson to run calcs and advise on Wanda's plan does seem foolish. (But possible Wanda has limitations due to fearing Stanley screwing things up, which he still may do)


Her language is rather interesting - she tells Ansom "Parson says we need to gather more intelligence", which isn't really how the conversation went down at all. Granted, she might just be cutting to the gist of it, but I do wonder if she she has some other reason for explaining it to Ansom like that - especially since it seems clear Ansom has told Wanda what he thinks of Parson. Possibly on more then one occasion.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby noxharrington » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:41 pm

As I've mentioned in other threads, I fear I will always be asking 'why not ask the bracer' in every situation from not until the end of the comic - unless the limitations of the bracer's power are better defined at some point.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:56 pm

noxharrington wrote:As I've mentioned in other threads, I fear I will always be asking 'why not ask the bracer' in every situation from not until the end of the comic - unless the limitations of the bracer's power are better defined at some point.

Well, at the moment, it's because Parson is ambivalent about taking an active roll in people's deaths.
He's got no problems running simulations to satisfy his curiosity, but when it comes to a choice which will commit Wanda to a course of action that requires her to kill, I think he's mentally trying to distance himself from that.
He knows that if he says, "That attack has got a 94.5% chance to succeed" he has, for all practical purposes, approved the attack himself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby noxharrington » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:16 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Well, at the moment, it's because Parson is ambivalent about taking an active roll in people's deaths.


Then, were I him, I would commit myself to finding a way to resolve these conflicts with minimum bloodshed. More, though, I'm wondering why he isn't being ordered to use the bracer more often.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:29 pm

noxharrington wrote:Then, were I him, I would commit myself to finding a way to resolve these conflicts with minimum bloodshed. More, though, I'm wondering why he isn't being ordered to use the bracer more often.

Personally, I find it more rewarding to examine a character in a story by asking "why is he doing what he's doing" rather than "what would I do in his place", although the latter is a fun thought-experiment. My best friend, on the other hand, imagines himself as the main character in almost anything he reads, and his enjoyment of the work is directly related to how closely the actions of the character mirrors what his own would be. I usually end up less frustrated. :)

I think Parson is in denial - if he doesn't take any sort of active role, he can avoid feeling any responsibility for the deaths that occur. The rational response is absolutely to minimize deaths, but most people don't behave rationally, or at least strictly rationally.

As to orders, I think neither Stanley nor Wanda actually realize what the bracer's capabilities are. Wanda takes no interest in magic outside of Croakamancy, and Mathamancy clearly falls into that category. Stanley just doesn't have the head for it, period.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Wender » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:36 pm

MarbitChow wrote:I think Parson is in denial - if he doesn't take any sort of active role, he can avoid feeling any responsibility for the deaths that occur. The rational response is absolutely to minimize deaths, but most people don't behave rationally, or at least strictly rationally.


This nails one impending crisis that Parson is heading into, headlong. He is as close to being the Perfect Warlord as any warlord is. The trauma of TBFGK has made him forget what he knows, which is that strategy can be about avoiding war as surely as it can be about waging it. By abdicating the responsibility that he is uniquely qualified to assume, Parson is risking the needless deaths of a great many people.

That must be what Wanda meant when she told him he'd lost and it had only just begun for him: By being what he always wanted to be, he was responsible for the deaths of untold thousands, including some people close to him. By standing aside and avoiding responsibility, he may very well be responsible for the deaths of untold thousands, including some people close to him. The world is a giant war game. He cannot have what he wants, because by his own admission it's impossible to have, and he literally can't run away. He needs to be fully engaged in order to at least steer the course of the carnage that he will inevitably be responsible for one way or the other. If he will not allow the world to make him ruthless in achieving its ends then he must become ruthless himself in achieving his. If he wants all this to end then it is up to him to end it. Until then, in the most important sense, he will lose.

That said, at least he is using his down time toward that end, broadly, by running sims with Jack. He will simply need to realize that even though that's close to what he did in his old life, and what he believes he wants to do, he's really just rehearsing. The sooner he realizes that, the fewer people die while he smirks.

I'm not sure that we'll see that crisis in this chapter. The title is Love is a Battlefield, and while there are plenty of warring siblings and ex-lovers, Parson can only be said to be at war with himself as far as that goes. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby fehler » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:07 pm

Interesting to see all three of Jillian's ex's working together.

I like how the author mentions Ossomer's bonuses, leading the reader to believe Ossmer is the target. But not specifying "the target". Unless one of the castors is quickly pointed out in the first frames of the next page, I'm guessing Tramennis is the target in mind. I could see an interesting dynamic, Ansom and Tramennis competing for their Mistriss' favor and plotting together against Parson, while a despondant, barbarian Ossomer books his remaining troops to FAQ.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Sixty » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:52 pm

fehler wrote:Interesting to see all three of Jillian's ex's working together.


I don't know if Jack counts as an "ex", Jillian just thought he had a crush on her.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Pointyleaf » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:06 pm

fehler wrote:Interesting to see all three of Jillian's ex's working together.

I like how the author mentions Ossomer's bonuses, leading the reader to believe Ossmer is the target. But not specifying "the target". Unless one of the castors is quickly pointed out in the first frames of the next page, I'm guessing Tramennis is the target in mind. I could see an interesting dynamic, Ansom and Tramennis competing for their Mistriss' favor and plotting together against Parson, while a despondant, barbarian Ossomer books his remaining troops to FAQ.


Indeed. I'd guess Ossomer has the best intel, if he's the leading warlord for the side. Other warlords/nobles in the stack might have equally good intel, though, and would probably be easier to disarm/disable. Capture of a caster could be especially interesting.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Nargrakhan » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:07 pm

noxharrington wrote:Then, were I him, I would commit myself to finding a way to resolve these conflicts with minimum bloodshed. More, though, I'm wondering why he isn't being ordered to use the bracer more often.


Wender wrote:He needs to be fully engaged in order to at least steer the course of the carnage that he will inevitably be responsible for one way or the other. If he will not allow the world to make him ruthless in achieving its ends then he must become ruthless himself in achieving his. If he wants all this to end then it is up to him to end it. Until then, in the most important sense, he will lose.


So basically... conquer the world so he can save it?

That's been the rallying cry for many a noble minded but inevitably misguided Evil Overlord™ in countless stories and sagas. :twisted:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby twhitt » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:24 pm

I'm just going to throw in a last minute 2c.

Jack says, "[if] we use a flash to cover the casting, it'll do." He's shooting for the minimum possible juice expenditure to create the necessary results, which remain partially unrevealed as of just now. Presumably he meant that he's going to make some troops invisible while making decoys appear to be elsewhere. We know he's able to do this, as he did it in the mountain pass, with Stanley's dwagon. Making this seamless, and hiding even the fact that he was casting at all, seems to be within his power. He's just trying to not spend that much juice. He'll create the veil, but if anyone's looking at him while he does it, it'll be obvious he's done something and it'll spoil the surprise.

What Jack needs is a distraction, plain and simple. Something that would make everyone turn their head, if just for a short moment, while he's casting. Well, the flash mob does that just fine, nothing magical or special about it necessary. The lovely archons bare all, everyone glances that way for a free show, or to see what the fuss is about, or because they find it repulsive and wish to be offended. Who knows, any excuse will work. And everyone will turn when five flying, glowing, beautiful women form a flash mob. Does anyone here think they know anyone who wouldn't turn to look? Even for just a moment?

The distraction, however mundane, is all Jack needs to work unobserved. He's very good at what he does, we have plenty of examples of that. "The enemy can see nothing else in this hex" should be taken to mean "the enemy can see nothing else that's real in this hex, save the archons which I did not veil. Everything else they see is the veil." We're going to have a quick strike follow, and no one will see it coming now, even if they've turned away from the archons after only a few seconds.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Raza » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:45 pm

twhitt wrote:The distraction, however mundane, is all Jack needs to work unobserved. He's very good at what he does, we have plenty of examples of that. "The enemy can see nothing else in this hex" should be taken to mean "the enemy can see nothing else that's real in this hex, save the archons which I did not veil. Everything else they see is the veil." We're going to have a quick strike follow, and no one will see it coming now, even if they've turned away from the archons after only a few seconds.

I agree with you otherwise, but I'm pretty sure "The enemy can see nothing else in this hex" was said by Wanda to Jack, as an affirmation of it being his time to cast.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby spriteless » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:56 pm

I now get Ansom. Ansom is a jock making fun of the nerdy caster Jack. Ansom is a Good Old Boy deprived of his club. No wonder he's so depressed, he doesn't know how to be anything but a smug upper class..... if I go on I'll only get more inflammatory, but all I really mean is he can't adjust. He has never had to before.

Parson, to whom war is a nerdy hobby, of course gets along with the nerdy casters better than the, shall we say, 'self important' warlords, so Ansom has no way to make a friend there. Stanly is to him a loser who lucked into winning at... whatever it is those guys always compete for. I suppose it's power in Erfworld more obviously than on Earth. Wanda is a goth who would never give a jock the time of day no matter how much he fawns over her. OH GAWD I THOUGHT I WAS OVER HIGHSCHOOL! :o
T'was a splendidly speedy defection.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby BoopingCynic » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 pm

twhitt wrote:I'm just going to throw in a last minute 2c.

Jack says, "[if] we use a flash to cover the casting, it'll do." He's shooting for the minimum possible juice expenditure to create the necessary results, which remain partially unrevealed as of just now. Presumably he meant that he's going to make some troops invisible while making decoys appear to be elsewhere. We know he's able to do this, as he did it in the mountain pass, with Stanley's dwagon. Making this seamless, and hiding even the fact that he was casting at all, seems to be within his power. He's just trying to not spend that much juice. He'll create the veil, but if anyone's looking at him while he does it, it'll be obvious he's done something and it'll spoil the surprise.

What Jack needs is a distraction, plain and simple. Something that would make everyone turn their head, if just for a short moment, while he's casting. Well, the flash mob does that just fine, nothing magical or special about it necessary. The lovely archons bare all, everyone glances that way for a free show, or to see what the fuss is about, or because they find it repulsive and wish to be offended. Who knows, any excuse will work. And everyone will turn when five flying, glowing, beautiful women form a flash mob. Does anyone here think they know anyone who wouldn't turn to look? Even for just a moment?

The distraction, however mundane, is all Jack needs to work unobserved. He's very good at what he does, we have plenty of examples of that. "The enemy can see nothing else in this hex" should be taken to mean "the enemy can see nothing else that's real in this hex, save the archons which I did not veil. Everything else they see is the veil." We're going to have a quick strike follow, and no one will see it coming now, even if they've turned away from the archons after only a few seconds.


It might just need a second or two to hide the actual GK troops and give them a shock

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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Ytaker » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:05 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:True, and fair, to just have a look, though I was also referring to the "check their breasts for deformities, and compare their shape, size, and "boob things" to her own" bit, I just don't know if I would trust a breast assessment at the distance shown here. Beyond "They look nice from here" or something like that. ;)


Maybe not the shape. But you could definitely work out the size, anything weird about them, and such. I asked her what she'd do if she saw a naked woman dancing in front of her. So yeah.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And true, not overtly magical (no flashing lights and what have you) but the results still seem to suggest some magic should be involved. Mainly since the effect of the flash mob seems to be preventing the enemy from seeing anything in their opponents hex while it is active.


That works whether it's mundane or magical. If it's magical, there's a chance they could resist it. If it's mundane, there's a chance they could resist it. Presumably that chance is quite low. Parson may have run a calculation for him, on what the chances are of anyone looking at the army for the brief time it would take him to cast an illusion. If flashing was an unstoppable effect, they'd just lead with the archons. That means it has some limitations, and that they could possibly see something else.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And none of it has to be explained - Jack just says "If we use a flash to cover casting" and Wanda just has to say "Form a flash mob". So "flashing" seems to be a tactic/ability/action with recognizable effects and certain outcomes. It seems from this page then that either a. certain units, maybe only when in a group/mob, have the ability to block the enemies view of a hex by using magic and a material component in the form of a bit of flashing or b. completely non-magical nudity (even at a distance) is so potent in Erfworld it is something leaders know they can use against their enemies with guaranteed results.


Jack explicitly says that he was on hand when someone smarter (Parson) invented it. Parson saw the sex appeal of the archons. He then thought of a tactical use for it. Others don't know about it, as Parson invented it. That suggests it's not a normal tactic from the rule book, not a magic with some recognizable effect, but just a rule abuse- archons are attractive because they're based off Charlie's angels, soldiers are weak willed and like to look at boobs, so that non magical effect can be used without expending any juice, and from a hex away.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Zak3056 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:28 pm

Ytaker wrote:Jack explicitly says that he was on hand when someone smarter (Parson) invented it. Parson saw the sex appeal of the archons. He then thought of a tactical use for it. Others don't know about it, as Parson invented it.

Jack was talking about the capture tactic, not the flash mob.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Rogthnor01 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:45 pm

Jack explicitly says that he was on hand when someone smarter (Parson) invented it. Parson saw the sex appeal of the archons. He then thought of a tactical use for it. Others don't know about it, as Parson invented it.


Their is no guarantee that parson came up with this plan, for all we know it could be from back when he was with faq.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Ytaker » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 pm

Zak3056 wrote:
Ytaker wrote:Jack explicitly says that he was on hand when someone smarter (Parson) invented it. Parson saw the sex appeal of the archons. He then thought of a tactical use for it. Others don't know about it, as Parson invented it.

Jack was talking about the capture tactic, not the flash mob.


Was he? Ah.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby Infidel » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:46 pm

That picture is just wrong Cynic.
Who is that beautiful red-headed devil,
Stabs you in the heart so that she can level?
It's Scarlet!
- BC
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Re: Book 2 – Page 6

Postby multilis » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:17 am

I personally think the flash mob does involve magic/juice or at least some sort of natural documented magic effect similar to how Book 1 shockomancy was illustrated by actions from our world. (Jack used a bit of Archons juice help to conserve his own)

I am guessing that everyone knew about a flash spell, and a displacement spell, and how a disable and a capture work, but Parson tuned it into slick combo: 5 flash spells to reduce chance of missing anyone, to cover the displacement, then enemy suddenly is distracted by Ansom suprise disabling of target then running away and archons sneak in to grab the prize.
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