Book 2 – Page 7

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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby teratorn » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:50 pm

About the king thing, they might have mostly emptied the city leaving there just the major caster for some sort of huge trap that no unit in the hex will survive (caster included). A foolamancy scroll might be enough to keep the king disguised so his own units don't recognize him. Maybe even Ossomer and Tramennis don't know about the trap.

I'm not saying this is likely, but I expect something will go very wrong with this battle.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Atomic » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:36 pm

1.) The thing I don't realize, is why people still argue over whether or not a veil can be used on units moving across a hex boundary... I don't see any reason why it couldn't. The only thing the comic (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/115.jpg) mentions about it, is just Vinny musing: "I'm not sure that hammer can fly 'em outa the hex though, Chief."

He doesn't say: "I'm not sure they can fly outa the hex while veiled, Chief."... He questions whether or not the Arkenhammer can do more that levitate Stanley/Jack. Which is a good point, since, you know, we have no proof that the Arkenhammer can do more (flying-wise) than levitate it's bearer.

2.) @ Joosy: Is there something wrong with calling our favorite Uncroaked, Red-Headed, Unaroyal, Female, Warlord by the name "Scarlet"? Certainly it's easier than typing that all out... Although, calling only one of our plethora of Uncroaked, Red-Headed, Unaroyal, Female, Warlords by the name "Scarlet" might confuse some newer readers ;) (note, that's a joke and no offense was meant, what-so-ever!)

Although Figwit might be willing to disagree with us, I don't see harm in calling *any* unnamed-characters by *any* names... Until otherwise corrected by Rob, of course.

3.) Interesting side note, does anyone notice that there are exactly eight Warlords (besides Ossomer) wearing red capes/cloaks in the 10th panel? Seems like they were trying to max out a stack...

4.) Who's to say that we aren't seeing the "Ditto Copy" of Ossomer and Tramennis right now? I can see it oh-so-perfectly, too. Feel free to quote me on this over the next few weeks...

Charlie had a plan. A brilliant, amazing, fantastically-fantastic, Parson-worthy plan; which would be the perfect counter to the victory Wanda seems so likely to achieve. He knows how to put it into action, but he needs a royal ally who can get through to Stately. He contacts Jillian, but she's hesitant to help, so he has to arrange an agreement with the Western Giants, but it finally works, and Jillian trusts him... Of course, the next step in Charlie's plan is to have Jillian contact Stately (Wanda's next target). Jillian (as instructed by Charlie) tells Stately about a plan she (really Charlie) came up with. It's as follows:

Stately needs to use the Dittomancer (we'll call him Figwit, for the sake of argument) to copy Tramennis and Ossomer. ---According to the wiki-article on Deadly Duplicator, the originals/copies have difficulty telling which is which.---

Stately must then send all but a skeleton guard outside of the city, into the open field between the Expository Bridge and Spacerock; keeping the real Ossomer/Tramennis to protect the city and help with strategies, but convincing the copies that they're the "real" ones.

Once Stately has emptied the capital of nearly every unit, Jillian flies in with her massive air force and gets ready to ambush Wanda. Of course, Stately hires a Shockamancer (or two) from the Magic Kingdom, sets as many traps as possible, and waits as well... A couple of turns pass, Ansom meets with the fake-Ossomer and Tramennis, and the trap is sprung. When Wanda decrypts Ossomer/Tramennis, they'll tell her that the city is empty of all but a few guards, has no air-defenses or traps, and that they could easily take it.

Ansom strikes Spacerock, Jillian defends, big battle ensues, and Ansom (or perhaps Jack... Not both, though) gets captured. Wanda is forced to flee, and Parson gets in trouble with Stanley because he's a "terrible potato-of-a-warlord". Of course, Jillian explains to Stately that this was all Charlie's plan, and things are off to a great start for the second book! :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby OneHugeTuck » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:23 pm

Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Dr Quest DFA » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:42 pm

Great comic.

Does anyone else think the Pink Dwagon looks sad not being able to take part in the shock treatment?

Also it looks like the attack was more effective than just dropping the warlord stack. There were also masses of Jetstone troops brought down as well (the gray blobs around the Brothers Jetstone). If they were croaked that means a bunch of decrypted units Wanda can raise to cause havok in the Jetstone ranks (commanded havok none the less if those warlords were also croaked).

I'm not sure if these Brothers Jetstone are real or dittos (we're still not even sure what a dittomancer does in practice, just the effects), but the title of this chapter is Meet the Jetstones so one of them will likely make it out of this encounter alive.

Can't wait for the next up date.

Also: I'm super psyched that Red/Scarlet may in fact still be around!!!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby asparagus » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:10 pm

Atomic wrote:Who's to say that we aren't seeing the "Ditto Copy" of Ossomer and Tramennis right now? I can see it oh-so-perfectly, too. Feel free to quote me on this over the next few weeks...

Charlie had a plan. A brilliant, amazing, fantastically-fantastic, Parson-worthy plan; which would be the perfect counter to the victory Wanda seems so likely to achieve. He knows how to put it into action, but he needs a royal ally who can get through to Stately. He contacts Jillian, but she's hesitant to help, so he has to arrange an agreement with the Western Giants, but it finally works, and Jillian trusts him... Of course, the next step in Charlie's plan is to have Jillian contact Stately (Wanda's next target). Jillian (as instructed by Charlie) tells Stately about a plan she (really Charlie) came up with. It's as follows:

Stately needs to use the Dittomancer (we'll call him Figwit, for the sake of argument) to copy Tramennis and Ossomer. ---According to the wiki-article on Deadly Duplicator, the originals/copies have difficulty telling which is which.---

Stately must then send all but a skeleton guard outside of the city, into the open field between the Expository Bridge and Spacerock; keeping the real Ossomer/Tramennis to protect the city and help with strategies, but convincing the copies that they're the "real" ones.

Once Stately has emptied the capital of nearly every unit, Jillian flies in with her massive air force and gets ready to ambush Wanda. Of course, Stately hires a Shockamancer (or two) from the Magic Kingdom, sets as many traps as possible, and waits as well... A couple of turns pass, Ansom meets with the fake-Ossomer and Tramennis, and the trap is sprung. When Wanda decrypts Ossomer/Tramennis, they'll tell her that the city is empty of all but a few guards, has no air-defenses or traps, and that they could easily take it.

Ansom strikes Spacerock, Jillian defends, big battle ensues, and Ansom (or perhaps Jack... Not both, though) gets captured. Wanda is forced to flee, and Parson gets in trouble with Stanley because he's a "terrible potato-of-a-warlord". Of course, Jillian explains to Stately that this was all Charlie's plan, and things are off to a great start for the second book! :)


This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase "atomic theory". I for one like this theory.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby hidufel » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:42 pm

Eh Love the ditto mancer!

looks to me like tremenis and ossamer are in a pickle. I cant help but think that the GK forces are in for a setback. too many things have been going their way so far.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Pointyleaf » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:26 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.


I'm skeptical. GK has had line-of-sight on the princes since the parley at the bridge, so they wouldn't have time for any foolamancy-ish part of a dittomancy spell to take effect (i.e, the doubling would have been spotted). Likewise, we don't know if dittomancy even really does create a realistic looking double, or anything about what those doubles are capable of.

If we went by RPG traditions, we'd expect a ghostly-looking double that is recognizable as a fake. I'm not saying that RPG traditions are right, as we have nothing to go on whatsoever, but I expect this attack to be a real fight. Gotta have some action to open up the book, right?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Yosarian » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:19 pm

It appears that the plan is going well.

From a plot point of view, my prediction is that this is where Ossamer and Tremenus do something really amazing, kill a LOT of random NPC's, possibly with just their own two hands, frustrate Wanda's plan, and basically demonstrate themselves to be incredibly badass. There's no dramatic tension unless you can make them look like a real threat.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Pointyleaf » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:56 pm

Yosarian wrote:It appears that the plan is going well.

From a plot point of view, my prediction is that this is where Ossamer and Tremenus do something really amazing, kill a LOT of random NPC's, possibly with just their own two hands, frustrate Wanda's plan, and basically demonstrate themselves to be incredibly badass. There's no dramatic tension unless you can make them look like a real threat.


It's possible. On the other hand, since we're quite early in the book, we may have not met the real villain yet. Or the villain may turn out to be one of GK's team (Stanley or Wanda) doing something particularly evil as they roll over their enemies. With Rob's writing, I expect a few twists and turns..
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Lamech » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:19 pm

Its fairly early on in book two. In one the conflicts didn't start to page... what? Now the summer updates reduced that some, but we have no reason to expect its all gone. I also note many of the problems form GK came from intra-side issues. Had Wanda say...pointed out to Parson her healomancy spells, instead of running into a gaggle of wounded dwagons Jillian would have watched those dwagons get healed as soon as she went to attack. (And she and Ansom would have went down.) Had Stanley not run...

I don't see why we should assume the major problems will derive directly from enemies. They may very well regardless; Ansom and Charlie managed to throw Parson for a loop. (After Stanley ran)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby OneHugeTuck » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:59 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.


I'm skeptical. GK has had line-of-sight on the princes since the parley at the bridge, so they wouldn't have time for any foolamancy-ish part of a dittomancy spell to take effect (i.e, the doubling would have been spotted).
If we went by RPG traditions, we'd expect a ghostly-looking double that is recognizable as a fake. I'm not saying that RPG traditions are right, as we have nothing to go on whatsoever, but I expect this attack to be a real fight. Gotta have some action to open up the book, right?


Depends on where the princes have been the whole time. They may have been ditto'd for quite a while.

RPG's may do ghostly dubles, but so far foolamancy makes REAL looking illusions, and Dittomancy may make actual doubles, not just images ghostly or otherwise.

Pointyleaf wrote:Likewise, we don't know if dittomancy even really does create a realistic looking double, or anything about what those doubles are capable of.


True. Thus we are speculating. Whee!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Dyne » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:30 am

Justyn wrote:
multilis wrote:
Justyn wrote:If they crossed the hex boundary, why didn't Jetstone hit them with archery? It looks like they're about ten or twenty feet above the bridge...
(*If*...) the archons flash the moment they cross the boundary, that stuns enemy for a bit.
That's a pretty big assumption to make with no evidentiary basis.


I think everyone's looking at this Flash thing from the wrong perspective. We don't know of any spells that can be cast across hexes (Except that one time). Therefore, it is unlikely that the Flash is affecting the units in Jetstone's hex from Gobwin Knob. Similarly, it is highly unlikely that the archons would cross into a readied enemy hex to cast a flash.

Therefore, the most logical conclusion would be that the Flash did not affect the enemy hex, but rather the hex they were currently in. We know from the summer updates that the archons can have access to both Foolomancy and Shockomancy, and while we don't know if there were any Shockomancy archons at the Battle of Gobwin Knob, some could have certainly picked up the skill when they leveled in the battles since then. What it seems to me is the Flash is some mix of natural Shockomancy and Foolomancy, perhaps with a limitation of only being able to affect a single side of the occupied hex (See panel five). By setting up a Flash, all other units in the hex are might be considered veiled when perceived from beyond the hex boundary the Flash was directed towards. If that were the case, the Flash mob would be a very limited utility ability (in line with Parson's description in the summer update), that happened to be the perfect thing for this situation, allowing Jack to cast a single displacement spell without the enemy being able to see it's casting.

That's my two Shmuckers, anyway.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby eqdok2007 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:44 am

teratorn wrote:About the king thing, they might have mostly emptied the city leaving there just the major caster for some sort of huge trap that no unit in the hex will survive (caster included). A foolamancy scroll might be enough to keep the king disguised so his own units don't recognize him. Maybe even Ossomer and Tramennis don't know about the trap.

I'm not saying this is likely, but I expect something will go very wrong with this battle.


Long time lurker/fan, first time poster.

I agree totally with this assessment. Parson (or Charlie) is not the only person in Erfworld capable of thinking outside of the box. How do you destroy an overwhelming force like that of Wanda's? With a reverse Gobwin Knob of course - to sucker em all in and blow em up!. It would be ironic and fitting for Ansom to fall for the same trick twice.

BTW, the "blowing up your enemy bit in a big explosion" is not totally unprecedented real world warfare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Messines
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Dyne » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:18 am

eqdok2007 wrote:
teratorn wrote:About the king thing, they might have mostly emptied the city leaving there just the major caster for some sort of huge trap that no unit in the hex will survive (caster included). A foolamancy scroll might be enough to keep the king disguised so his own units don't recognize him. Maybe even Ossomer and Tramennis don't know about the trap.

I'm not saying this is likely, but I expect something will go very wrong with this battle.


Long time lurker/fan, first time poster.

I agree totally with this assessment. Parson (or Charlie) is not the only person in Erfworld capable of thinking outside of the box. How do you destroy an overwhelming force like that of Wanda's? With a reverse Gobwin Knob of course - to sucker em all in and blow em up!. It would be ironic and fitting for Ansom to fall for the same trick twice.

BTW, the "blowing up your enemy bit in a big explosion" is not totally unprecedented real world warfare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Messines


The odd thing is, there's an erfworld-like pun in that already: "The Battle of Messiness" :P
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Thydron » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:48 am

OneHugeTuck wrote:Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.


The dittomancer can't cast unless it's his turn or his hex is attacked - it's GK's turn and we've seen him since they entered the hex, very clearly not casting.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby asparagus » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:49 am

eqdok2007 wrote:With a reverse Gobwin Knob of course - to sucker em all in and blow em up!. It would be ironic and fitting for Ansom to fall for the same trick twice.


Of course he and Stanley will blame it all on Parson. If Parson's plan was simply to fly over Spacerock and see if it was it was appeared to be the plan would be foiled.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby crazyguy_co » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:05 am

Thydron wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.


The dittomancer can't cast unless it's his turn or his hex is attacked - it's GK's turn and we've seen him since they entered the hex, very clearly not casting.



Well now, thats not necessarily true. We've seen MANY spells cast on other people's turns. Thinkagrams, wanda's shockblast of death (she wasn't attacked, they were talking), the veil used to disguise the Twoll as Parson, Wanda decrypting, all come to mind without looking.

I still think its the real ones, i just don't think dittomancy can copy people, just bonuses. the "survivors" line of the brief description, i had a different take on, but since its also speculation i won't go on about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Thydron » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:24 am

crazyguy_co wrote:
Thydron wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:Ossamer. Tremanis. Ditto'd.

Not really there.


The dittomancer can't cast unless it's his turn or his hex is attacked - it's GK's turn and we've seen him since they entered the hex, very clearly not casting.



Well now, thats not necessarily true. We've seen MANY spells cast on other people's turns. Thinkagrams, wanda's shockblast of death (she wasn't attacked, they were talking), the veil used to disguise the Twoll as Parson, Wanda decrypting, all come to mind without looking.

I still think its the real ones, i just don't think dittomancy can copy people, just bonuses. the "survivors" line of the brief description, i had a different take on, but since its also speculation i won't go on about it.


Not sure if any thinkagrams have being sent out of turn - maybe by Charlie using the ArkenDish. Maggie was able to cast a head-clearing spell for parson, but that was when there were archons in GK's airspace (I think), so technically their hex had been entered by unallied troops.
Wanda's shockblast was again when her hex (GK) had been entered by opposing forces (even if they were just talking) - same as the veil on Bogroll.
I suppose technically Wanda's mass uncroacking of Jetstone troops was when there were no units left alive attacking GK, but they had entered the same hex.
The decryption seemingly had to wait unit dawn & GK's turn too.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:45 pm

Thydron wrote:
crazyguy_co wrote:[Well now, thats not necessarily true. We've seen MANY spells cast on other people's turns. Thinkagrams, wanda's shockblast of death (she wasn't attacked, they were talking), the veil used to disguise the Twoll as Parson, Wanda decrypting, all come to mind without looking.

I still think its the real ones, i just don't think dittomancy can copy people, just bonuses. the "survivors" line of the brief description, i had a different take on, but since its also speculation i won't go on about it.


Not sure if any thinkagrams have being sent out of turn - maybe by Charlie using the ArkenDish. Maggie was able to cast a head-clearing spell for parson, but that was when there were archons in GK's airspace (I think), so technically their hex had been entered by unallied troops.
Wanda's shockblast was again when her hex (GK) had been entered by opposing forces (even if they were just talking) - same as the veil on Bogroll.
I suppose technically Wanda's mass uncroacking of Jetstone troops was when there were no units left alive attacking GK, but they had entered the same hex.
The decryption seemingly had to wait unit dawn & GK's turn too.


Wanda's mass uncroaking took place on GK's turn. The Jetstone troops were send in the day before and spend the nigth there. When Wanda uncroaked the fliers from Jillian's group, Jillians units were already away, but the Jetstone forces were in the tunnels, so she could cast on the RCC's turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 7

Postby DevilDan » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:51 pm

We know of one rock-solid, inappellable example of someone doing magic before the start of the turn: Sizemore uses his shovel-wand to lift out a gem from the ground well before dawn and the start of GK's turn, which is shown by the popping of a dwagon, Stanley beginning to move, and, oh yeah, Wanda's announcement of the fact.
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