Book 2 – Page 8

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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:09 am

LK's Quick Observations

1) Jetstone put together one heck of a stack. Archers plus high level Warlord Statler (I assume he's high level because he looks old and grizzled and knows whats what), plus dittomancer is a lot of firepower that can be directed to any critical point in the hex. Probably enough to easily match the power stack's multiple bonuses. Thumbs up.

2) The sortie contained Ansom (on carpet), Wanda (on Pink), Jack and unknown units (on Blues), 6 Archons (4 in the Shockamancy attack and 2 holding the net). The Volley popped the displacement (which I don't think is the same thing as a veil, sort of like the difference between suggestion and mind control) on Ansom, Jack, and four of the Archons. That leaves Wanda and I believe the 2 "net" Archons still unseen. Enough for a capture (though the 2 obvious targets are not disarmed) or a rescue of the now dismounted Ansom.

3) As per Ossomer, the Stack is merely "shocked," not croaked.

4) If Ansom is no longer mounted, is he still part of the stack for determining bonuses? His bonuses (to stack, hex, and side) were the best available to GK.

5) Anyone else hope we get to see Ossomer go superhero and wipe out some Dwagons singlehandedly? Or perhaps the other casters make their presence felt. An interesting and unexpected application of Healamancy might be a "leprosy" type spell that stops units from recovering HP at dawn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby DevilDan » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:24 am

So, if Jack gets croaked, will he be an even more powerful caster after Wanda decrypts him?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Dr Quest DFA » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:32 am

3: What, no friendly fire on Oss and Trem from the mass volley? Boo!


Well it was an "overhead" volley... the archers were aiming in the general area beyond Oss and Trem, so they would litter the sky above them with arrows, but not having too many fall in the area where the princes are... Afterall, none of those arrows seemed to hit ansom, and that's likely because he was flying low and closing in on Oss. The other units were likely either high up or further back. The last panel does make it seem like the arrows are pretty well overhead... really, they could have better avoided the arrow attack if they all got really close to the princes



I agree with you there. Given the density of the Jetstone troops do you think any of that "Overhead Volley" ended up hitting some of the surrounding Jetstone troops (be they shocked or not)? Also, do we know if friendly fire even exists in Erf World? Discounting the collapsing of GK in book 1 I don't think we have seen evidence of friendly fire. Any one have any thoughts on the matter?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Updog » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:55 am

I likke how Ditto said "double 'em" Twice before saying "I'll quarduple 'em"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby crazyguy_co » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:32 am

AngryAngel wrote:
Depends on the hex. Seriously, a medieval longbowman could shoot about 600 yards (meters) in volly mode. I may be wrong about the max range, but whatever it actually was, it was a long way.


400-450 yards from the ground was about maximum volley range, 600 MAYBE from a high tower and a strong archer. Thats for longbows, a recurve bow even further, but those don't look like recurves. Rule of thumb is generally volley range is about 2x accuracy range for bows.




Smoker wrote:If Ansom does get captured by Jetstone, I suspect he will just be even more angry with Parson.

Its like how some real world religious crazys thank God for every tiny-little-good-thing that happens, then when something awful happens, they either shrug and say "thats life" or find a scapegoat.


No its not... its in fact, exactly the opposite... And the religious slam is totally out of place on these forums. Take religion and politics to someplace else, please, both for or against.


Now onto real comments.

Poor Jack, i hope he gets captured and turned. Hate seeing him work for the Tool or Wanda... though would rather see him with TV or Faq than with Jetstone.

Someone mentioned this, but a sabre seems an odd choice of weapon for Ossomer. Sabres are dueling/fencing weapons, made to accent speed and skill. Ossomer is massive, and I woulda expcted either a Claymore or longsword, which better allow for size, strength, and reach.

I'm still waiting to see the golems... There is a dollomancer in the hex, where are the Cloth golems? Wouldn't you want your leaders near the heavies for protection? I think Wanda is about to realize she may be brilliant, but to leave battle tactics to the warlords. Maybe Ansoms comment to Jack wasn't as misplaced we thought. Unfair to blame any of this on Ansom... he didn't like the plan, and he wasn't even told what Parson REALLY said.

It appears shockomancy uses both meanings of the word "shock" If thats true, than Tesla and teleforce are very defenitly shockomancy, as they both have everything to do with electricity. I don't wanna see ansom croaked, though I'd love to see him turned. He makes a better opponent for Parson than ally.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby GobwinPie » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:45 am

KiltedNinja wrote:wow... nuts, (un)expected turn of events here.. Poor Jack :/

..And did anyone notice the dying decrypted archon (with the PCP) is the same chick with the grey hair who's face we didn't see last time? AND NOW WE'LL NEVER SEE HER FACE!!!!


Of course not. Facelessness and wearing red shirts are the leading causes of nameless character death.

(name here) wrote:So, Wanda, what have you learned about not listening to parson?


Or assuming that you HAVE listened to Parson, not double-checking, AND not listening to Ansom either. After all, Ansom was right about this plan, wasn't he?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:02 am

Dr Quest DFA wrote:I agree with you there. Given the density of the Jetstone troops do you think any of that "Overhead Volley" ended up hitting some of the surrounding Jetstone troops (be they shocked or not)? Also, do we know if friendly fire even exists in Erf World? Discounting the collapsing of GK in book 1 I don't think we have seen evidence of friendly fire. Any one have any thoughts on the matter?

Well, we don't have solid evidence, but i do think a bit in the summer updates helps to imply it. Namely the part where Parson was questioning throwing a brick at one of their own units from way up high... If friendly fire was indeed impossible, i think that's when Sizemore or maggie would have told him... namely saying that his throw would automatcially miss or something... but they do indicate that he does have a chance of hitting one of his own units

crazyguy_co wrote:I'm still waiting to see the golems... There is a dollomancer in the hex, where are the Cloth golems? Wouldn't you want your leaders near the heavies for protection?

Well they were with what we assume to be a bunch of warlords. In some turnbased games, leadership/hero type units (warlords in this case), are some of the most powerful units you have on your side. for instance, If i recall correctly, in heros of might and magic, one swordsman unit can actually represent like 30 of them, while a single hero unit just represents the ONE hero... Even with heavier units you are generally having several of them... depending on their level, the hero unit can do pretty damn well to hold his own

Hell brining it back to erfworld, we can just look at the track record of some warlords... Dwagons are very fearsome and powerful, and yet Jillian and one gwiffen can take down one no problem; granted, she's a high level warlord, but my point is that a decent level warlord might be just as good as a heavy unit.

though it does make me question how fast the action is an how far apart the units are, as i would have expected the princes to get some reinforcements rather quickly (aside from the long range volley)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Konrad » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:13 am

I liked Tramennis from his first scene in Book 2, but Ossomer is really starting to grow on me. He seems like the kind of archetypal "tank" that thrives when the situation is rapidly getting worse. The fact that Ossomer is still on his feet and the GK air force is already taking some hits doesn't look good for this little recon mission.

Its also nice to see the two brothers preparing to fight back to back. Makes me wonder just how many situations like this they've been in before.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby BunnyMaster42 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:39 am

I sort of have the feeling that they will successfully capture Ossomer and interrogate him for imformation, maybe even going so far as to decrypt him for info. But in that case it's likely that Tramennis will take over as chief warlord, which could be a serious problem for GK. Tramennis seems to be able to think outside of the box more easily than Ossomer, able to predict what GK has in plan to a certain degree even. I think that, if Ossomer is captured, Tramennis will probably start to hassle GK with almost parson-esque tactics and plans, which Ansom seems to be able to fall for considering his own attack on GK, coupled with Stanley's apparent dislike of Parson (who could probably detect said plans ahead of time), could probably mean that GK could be in for a world of hurt (or at least mild discomfort).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:47 am

Dr Quest DFA wrote:5. SCARLET WILL SAVE THE DAY!!11!!one11!!one!1 (also, is that Scarlet deflecting arrows in the background of the last panel? Because if it is she just got that much more awesome)


Lol, yes and speaking of that

mblackadder wrote:OAN I now have one Grant that Scarlet is going to be an running inside joke of the forum's here. She will never be mentioned in screen but she will always be there at every engagement in the background, hard to make out and blurry.


I guess you sir are perfectly right! *does temporary avatar change for this occasion*

And now for serious topics.

Jack is very most likely hit and this is not him playing around fooling people that they scored a hit. That doesn't make sense.

I hope he'll be ok, after all what's an arrow embedded in the right shoulder blade, right? Speaking of which, do Erfworlders even have hearts? In any case, it's doubtful that the story, after giving us Jack the Pimp, will so quickly take him away.

I agree that what's to happen is that Stanley's side will lose Ansom. Not necessarily taking a prisoner of their own, however.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Azukar » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:01 am

Loved the pink dwagon's expression, creeping up on Trammenmmph! Mmph!

On the other hand, minor nitpick: did anyone else find the weird change of perspective in the last two panels confusing?

And I was just re-reading the summer updates - I completely forgot Trammenis was the eldest brother. He's got the whole "kid brother backed up by beefy older siblings" vibe going...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby darkgolem » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:53 am

To be honest, I don't like when there is a sudden twist which doesn't have any precursor, such as the prince whatsisnames teleforce thingy.

I mean, I thought something would go badly when Wanda went rogue, interpreting "recon" for "interrogation", but having the target have an unanticipated and powerful ability is sort of a cheat on the author's part.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the author writes a ton and does a ton of work, more than I could ever do, even if I had the talent for something like Erfworld, but I still feel that way.

Saying that Wanda and Jack are both too slow-witted to anticipate a powerful ability like this is foolish.. less so for Ansom, since he is so conventional in his thinking. This breaks the credibility of the story a bit.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Firkraag » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:58 am

1. The Dittomancer is awesome.
2. Tremmenis is a smart one, that's established... Shame he's out.
3. Ossomer isn't all words, apparently. Great!
4. Quick thinking on the part of that commander back there.

There's one mistake I've been seeing and confuses me a lot; On the second to last panel, Ansom is on the left side of the panel. On the last, he's on the right. Something like this happened in previous comics and it's a little disorienting, especially when you're trying to depict a battle scene... Isn't it best to keep the viewpoint stable?

Also... there's how many corpses/disabled units around the princes? Talk about overpowered... They shocked everyone!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:26 am

darkgolem wrote:To be honest, I don't like when there is a sudden twist which doesn't have any precursor, such as the prince whatsisnames teleforce thingy.
I mean, I thought something would go badly when Wanda went rogue, interpreting "recon" for "interrogation", but having the target have an unanticipated and powerful ability is sort of a cheat on the author's part.
Don't get me wrong, I recognize the author writes a ton and does a ton of work, more than I could ever do, even if I had the talent for something like Erfworld, but I still feel that way.
Saying that Wanda and Jack are both too slow-witted to anticipate a powerful ability like this is foolish.. less so for Ansom, since he is so conventional in his thinking. This breaks the credibility of the story a bit.

I respectfully disagree. The Tesla effect comes from a magic item.
It's no stretch at all to think that, going to war against a powerful foe who has already completely wiped out one side, Jetstone might invest in some additional firepower.
The item is clearly visible on Ossomer's arm from page 4 on.
We all just assumed it was part of the armor, even though it looks like it would be horrible protection in retrospect. :)

The author introduces new information all the time. Sometimes it's there for foreshadowing, sometimes for misdirection.
(Spoiler alert :D ) Do you think Darth Vader informing Luke that Darth's his daddy breaks the credibility of Star Wars? All indications prior to that was that Vader killed Luke's dad.
Sometimes an author introduces the information just at the right moment for dramatic tension.

But, in a story where flying marshmallow peeps are fierce attack creatures and teddy bears shatter city walls, if the introduction of a single offensive magic item that wasn't mentioned before is what pushes you over the edge, it's absolutely your right to believe so. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Firkraag » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:33 am

darkgolem wrote:To be honest, I don't like when there is a sudden twist which doesn't have any precursor, such as the prince whatsisnames teleforce thingy.

I mean, I thought something would go badly when Wanda went rogue, interpreting "recon" for "interrogation", but having the target have an unanticipated and powerful ability is sort of a cheat on the author's part.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the author writes a ton and does a ton of work, more than I could ever do, even if I had the talent for something like Erfworld, but I still feel that way.

Saying that Wanda and Jack are both too slow-witted to anticipate a powerful ability like this is foolish.. less so for Ansom, since he is so conventional in his thinking. This breaks the credibility of the story a bit.


Seriously, it's not even changing anything. Ossomer could have sucker-punched Ansom and the end result would have been the same - Ansom getting owned. The Tesla effect was just funny.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby Steve-D » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:01 am

darkgolem wrote:To be honest, I don't like when there is a sudden twist which doesn't have any precursor, such as the prince whatsisnames teleforce thingy.

I mean, I thought something would go badly when Wanda went rogue, interpreting "recon" for "interrogation", but having the target have an unanticipated and powerful ability is sort of a cheat on the author's part.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the author writes a ton and does a ton of work, more than I could ever do, even if I had the talent for something like Erfworld, but I still feel that way.

Saying that Wanda and Jack are both too slow-witted to anticipate a powerful ability like this is foolish.. less so for Ansom, since he is so conventional in his thinking. This breaks the credibility of the story a bit.


Here we go again...

My theory for the next panel is Ansom doing battle with Ossomer while Wanda has Tremanis captured, ending with the stack disengaging as Ossomer waves his sword in frustration.

Oh, and it looks like Jack was only wounded causing the foolmancy to drop, not killed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby LordDarksea » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:03 am

theseus2x wrote:Shiiiiiiiit....

Wasn't it obvious something wasn't going to go well when Wanda closed the link to Parson? :oops:

I *REALLY* hope they don't kill Jack.


Lets be honest, it was obvious that something wasn't going to go well (for them, not for us!) the moment it stopped being summer updates and turned to being full comic again :D

I don't know about everybody else, but i found that to be definitely worth the wait. hurrah!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby multilis » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 am

No its not... its in fact, exactly the opposite... And the religious slam is totally out of place on these forums. Take religion and politics to someplace else, please, both for or against.

It is allowed here unlike GiantItp, however I agree that without context/specifics, it is an empty slam that doesn't really contribute, I could do some very similar ones about "fanatical athiests".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:26 am

darkgolem wrote:Saying that Wanda and Jack are both too slow-witted to anticipate a powerful ability like this is foolish.. less so for Ansom, since he is so conventional in his thinking. This breaks the credibility of the story a bit.

Well i wouldn't necessarily say that neither of them did not anticipate something like that... i mean, unless the item is new to the jetstone side, Ansom would have informed Wanda about it. regardless though, the plan was to disarm Ossy before he even had a chance to retaliate at all; Ansom was gonna disarm him while still veiled. What Wanda and Ansom SHOULD have anticipated was the possibility of the volley as that was able to strike from the other side of the hex.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 8

Postby crazyguy_co » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:32 am

MonteCristo wrote:Well they were with what we assume to be a bunch of warlords. In some turnbased games, leadership/hero type units (warlords in this case), are some of the most powerful units you have on your side. for instance, If i recall correctly, in heros of might and magic, one swordsman unit can actually represent like 30 of them, while a single hero unit just represents the ONE hero... Even with heavier units you are generally having several of them... depending on their level, the hero unit can do pretty damn well to hold his own

Hell brining it back to erfworld, we can just look at the track record of some warlords... Dwagons are very fearsome and powerful, and yet Jillian and one gwiffen can take down one no problem; granted, she's a high level warlord, but my point is that a decent level warlord might be just as good as a heavy unit.

though it does make me question how fast the action is an how far apart the units are, as i would have expected the princes to get some reinforcements rather quickly (aside from the long range volley)


Ah, I didn't mean in the same stack, just nearby :) Not sure if nearby matters at all in erfworld anyway, just find their absence conspicuos... makes me assume they are involved in some surprise, is all I meant. (and, for the record =D, only in homm4 was the hero an actual unit. in 1-3 they just slung spells from the sidelines. We do not speak of Homm5, for it is blasphemy. That aside, your point is good, in HoMM4, a "stack" of 7 high level heroes was by FAR the most powerful thing you could create. Lords of magic, which had turn based movement but real time combat (similar to erfworld?), was similar, with high level heroes being godly compared to any level units)

multilis wrote:It is allowed here unlike GiantItp, however I agree that without context/specifics, it is an empty slam that doesn't really contribute, I could do some very similar ones about "fanatical athiests".


oh, its totally allowed.

Still doesn't make it a good idea. It just causes hard feelings, animosity, and flaming that I'd hate to see sully the Erfworld forums.
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