Book 2 - Text Updates 002

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Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby balder » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:06 am

New One is up.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby hanglekuk » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:13 am

I wonder how much predictomancy differs from Parson's calculator? Looks like similar thing, but a little more accurate.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby ftl » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:45 am

hanglekuk wrote:I wonder how much predictomancy differs from Parson's calculator? Looks like similar thing, but a little more accurate.


Different applications, I think.

Calculator - you can ask it any question, and it'll give a probabilistic answer. The downside is that this answer is only as useful as what you know how to do with it and the information you have - if you ask a vague question, you'll get a useless answer. If you ask a question without knowing all the things that might affect the answer, you won't know what information you just got or how to use it. However, the upside is that you really can ask it what seems to be any question at all - past, future, "what if".

Predictamancy - from what we know of it, everything that is predicted DOES happen. It's not a statement of probability or likelihood - it WILL happen. That makes it in some ways more useful and in some ways less useful. It's more useful because, well, you then know the future. No ifs ands or buts, no worrying about whether you asked a slightly wrong question or that there's something you missed that'll make the 1% chance happen. However, you can ONLY predict what will happen. For example, I don't think you can do predictamancy on a "what if" scenario. And, if you do predictamancy, you can't change the outcome anymore - if it's been predicted that your kingdom will fall, well, then your kingdom will fall and you just have to plan around it. (Whereas, with the bracer, even if it gives a 99% chance of something happening, you can do your damned best to force reality into that 1% - it's not certain, just unlikely, and people can make unlikely things happen by working at it.) I'd also guess that you can't just predictamancy answers to any question you want, even about the future - there's probably some limits, though that is entirely my guessing.

Of course, most of what I just said is complete speculation - we don't really know how predictamancy works, other than that it predicts stuff, and we don't really know how the bracer ticks, other than that it gives probabilistic answers to complex questions. So take it with a teaspoon of salt.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby cloudbreaker » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:03 am

Nice update. I found the city info to be particularly interesting.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby ftl » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:18 am

Speaking of which, yes, nice update.

We now have word of Janis that she has predictamancy saying that something's going to go horribly wrong at the fight for Jetstone... we'd all been suspecting it for plot reasons, I guess, but interesting to hear that Janis knows that as well. (Though I still hope that it's by some clever ruse, and not by Wanda doing something obnoxiously stupid, like the "recon" she just did.) (Perhaps the mistake will be because Wanda takes Ossomer's intelligence at face value, forgetting that now Tremennis is in command and has changed up all of the defensive plans for that hex on the fly? I'd certainly feel like Tremennis pulling a quick one on them would be both in character and interesting.)

Janis obviously seems to have big plans for Parson. I hope that one day, we'll know the details of those plans, though I don't expect it to be anytime soon... end of Book 2 at the earliest, and possibly not even then...
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Wakky » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:22 am

Rats - the illustration left out the statue of the naked Archon... :shock:
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Casander » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:33 am

Who IS in favor of a "War for War"?

Hmmm. Could it be that many of the unemployed casters in the Magic Kingdom ARE in favor of "War for War" because that is what gets them employed, what pays for their upkeep? What gets them Sushi instead of gruel?

To me, one of the truly BIZARRE things about Erfworld is the lack of civilians. There are no people that soldiers protect. Theoretically, there are farms. And mines, and other things that generate wealth, but those are mostly BUILDINGS, not people. Soldiers don't go back to peace-time occupations when the war is over, they are disbanded. They cease to exist. Or they are disposed of in suicidal or just petty little wars to reduce upkeep. Or to level warlords. The end of a war is likely to be very trying for a lot of units. I imagine that for a great war, both sides build up to the point that upkeep takes up a significant percentage of their income. But what if peace somehow breaks out? Peace could be deadlier than war as all those excess to requirements units get disbanded. They don't even get to die for some Purpose. Just to save the crown a schmucker!

Perhaps in the future 'income generating units' will be popped. They won't be great military units, and they will need various occupations and stuff, and can level new skills like Farming, Smithing, Mining and so generate more wealth. And at some cost they could be drafted into the military, and later returned to generating wealth. And THEN there will be incentives all around to make peace.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby ftl » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:59 am

Casander wrote:Who IS in favor of a "War for War"?


Most of Erfworld seems like it wouldn't be against war for war. Jillian would certainly be for it.

Soldiers don't go back to peace-time occupations when the war is over, they are disbanded.


In Erfworld, it seems the war is never over.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby GobwinPie » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:15 am

Interesting to see that Sizemore still bears some ill-will towards Parson, what he made him do, and what he cost him. I had wondered if he had forgiven too easily when they returned to GK from the MK at the end of book 1, but it seems like he's still burying some discontent. (Good. That makes him a more complex and interesting character.)

Janis interests me more and more each time we run into her. I wonder what sort of game she's playing at towards her goal of world peace and what her other hopes for peace are.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby DunkelMentat » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:25 am

Now we know that things are not going to be peachy-keen for GK in the next comic update. What is going to cause this "disarray"? Jack is really down save for decrypting (I don't believe that casters lose their abilities after decryption)? Ansom? Can't imagine it'd be Wanda. Maybe Jetstone launches a surprise counter-attack?

Hmmmmmmmm.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Glenn » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:44 am

Is Janis's belief that Parson can "break war" remotely realistic? I suppose you could argue that nuclear weapons have helped to deter World Wars on Earth, so if Parson invents a similarly powerful weapon, Erfworld sides could be restrained by the balance of terror. But even nuclear weapons haven't really eliminated wars on Earth: they have simply forced great powers to focus their competition on economic/ideological conflict and proxy wars. And they have created a situation in which a miscalculation could lead to the destruction of our entire civilization in a nuclear war. Is that really such a vast improvement?

Maybe Parson could conquer the world, but even if he does so, what next? What are Erfworlders supposed to do if there is no war? Is Parson supposed to turn Erfworld into a poor copy of the Earth? Does he destroy the process by which food pops and units heal every turn, thus forcing some Erfworlders to become Doctors or Farmers? Does he change them so they can give birth like humans do on Earth, so they have to spend lots of time raising and educatiing children? Does he stop them being cleaned every morning so they need to spend time bathing? And if he does any of this, is it actually an improvement?

I suspect if Parson does unify Erfworld, the Titans will just shift the game to a higher level, and make Erfworld a Side in a game about interstellar colonization and war.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby yay » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:58 am

hanglekuk wrote:I wonder how much predictomancy differs from Parson's calculator? Looks like similar thing, but a little more accurate.


mathamancy is based on numbers, and predictamancy is based on fate. so my take is mathamancy can give you answers if you know the facts and right questions. predictamancy seems to give you just the answer but no context. like in hitchhikers guide they asked the question to "life, the universe, and everything" and got 42. mathmancy, if it is similar to the probability and statistics course i'm taking currently, is only accurate if you have enough accurate data to input to the spell/bracer. so they are basically both working from two different ends of the problem.

hippies and shrooms made me giggle, also the nude archon statue.

what could go so badly that parson has to lead again? espicially with two of the royal radish bros on GK side (pending Oss. decryption). my bets are on A) Jillian showing up in the one turns time left or B) Natural allies are about to make a big impact

war never ends and free love was pipe dream. the original hippies found this out and cut their hair to get jobs. Janis's dreams are going to be crushed, espicially in a world where war is ingrained into every aspect
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Azukar » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:00 am

GobwinPie wrote:Janis interests me more and more each time we run into her. I wonder what sort of game she's playing at towards her goal of world peace and what her other hopes for peace are.


If the name has any significance, Janus is the Roman god of dorrways/portals. He is usually depicted as being two-headed. Makes me wonder if Janis has less than completely altruistic motivations? She seems very... insistant on knowing how Parson acts, and we certainly don't know her game.

Also, who wants to bet there's a chance Janis will hire herself out to (say) Gobwin Knob before the end of the series?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Trigger » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:20 am

In a game after you win there is generally an ending movie or epilogue in which the winning side has ushered in a golden age or has found peace and prosperity. Maybe something similar happens if you "win" Erfworld. The problem is that it is not a game so light alone knows just what would happen if someone were to "win" and make one world side.

It looks like Parson brought with him scientific process as well. Looks like his theory that the magic theory everyone "knows" might just be as unfounded as the old concept of elements (the fire earth etc variety) could be right. And at the very least we now know why no one has come up with some of the tactics we think are obvious, pre-scientific method the question "what if?" was very rarely answered with "lets try it and see what happens"
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Doktor Jones » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:03 am

Azukar wrote:If the name has any significance, Janus is the Roman god of dorrways/portals. He is usually depicted as being two-headed. Makes me wonder if Janis has less than completely altruistic motivations? She seems very... insistant on knowing how Parson acts, and we certainly don't know her game.


I'd bet you dollars to donuts that Janis more likely would be a reference to Janis Joplin than a Roman god. After all, does this picture not positively scream "Hippiemancy"? Also, the spelling of the name is precise, rather than the change in letter required for Janus.

Somewhat off-topic, I don't see how you would conclude that Janis would have "less than altruistic" motivations, as Janus was two-headed, not "two-faced"; he had the ability to see into both the future and the past. Of course, the name would then be more fitting for a predictamancer than for a hippiemancer ;)
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Killer Angel » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:26 am

Good update, even if I've always found hard to digest the Hippie-style Janis that believes in the concept of "the war that will end all the wars"...
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Sixty » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:39 am

I wonder what part Janis had in directly or indirectly creating the perfect warlord spell. Perhaps she has been waiting for quite a while for someone to use it and bring an outsider to Erf who can change things.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:19 am

There is a way to achieve lasting peace and that way is the grave.


Based on the above statement alone, Janis' dreams of world peace are possible.

Another way than mass-croak of finding peace is the one-world-side of decrypted.

All bets are off as to what exactly Janis has in mind; if she is (I suspect) altruistic, then her way might be stunningly surprising, and I for one await its reveal.

Finally, notice that there is disarray predicted for GK. We haven't seen disarray yet now, have we?
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:20 am

Seems like Sizemore's wish from summer update 24 was fulfilled; Stanley let him take a dwagon and see the new terrain. Apparently he didn't like it.

i wonder what these cities could produce before they were redesigned by GK. I hope they weren't all redesigned, because variety is a good thing. Also I noticed that GK can't produce archers. Or are they subsumed as infantry?
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Re: Book 2 - Text Updates 002

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:27 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:i wonder what these cities could produce before they were redesigned by GK. I hope they weren't all redesigned, because variety is a good thing. Also I noticed that GK can't produce archers. Or are they subsumed as infantry?


Depends on the game* you have in mind. Many fantasy-based games have this rule where troops of different alignments don't mix well.

*: "Erfworld is not a game". But a lot of things from Erfworld can be usefully described as game-like. Deal.
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