Book 2 – Page 11

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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby ftl » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:58 am

eqdok2007 wrote:
fractal wrote:...
The reason no one else has mentioned it is because you're mistaken. Incapacitated units croak when the turn is ended. Jack must either be healed or decrypted; simply waiting is the same as a decision to decrypt, except that he isn't available to help this turn.


No I don't think so.

Vinnie was incapacitated here with an arrow in the chest and all booped up in this update.
http://www.erfworld.com/page/17/

He got COMPLETELY better the next day... well until he got news that Transylvito was popping a new heir.


First: this was not Vinnie. It was Caesar.

Second: He was never incapacitated. He was hit by an arrow, but, as shown in the update, it was not enough damage to prevent him from moving around and fighting.

We have, I believe, exactly two uses of the word "incapacitated" as a status effect to go off of.
1) http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F122.jpg . "Charlie you boophole! Is Wanda alive?" "Yes, but incapacitated. She WILL croak, unless she is healed by the end of Jetstone's turn."
2) This last comic. "How's Jack?" "Incapacitated."

I think that there have been no other times where a character has been described as "incapacitated." If I'm wrong on that, and there's other instances, please post the link, I'd love to see more instances :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:01 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:here on Earth, we have surgeons cutting people up removing chunks of liver, stomach, even half the brain in case of a girl with epileptic seisures. Opening up the chest cavity leaves the patient requiring months of painful recovery. How come we don't charge ALL surgeons with Aggravated Assault and Causing Grievious Bodily Harm?

All procedures on Earth are done WITH CONSENT, either from the patient or from someone in position to grant it.
In the event of traumatic procedures, they are done because the alternative is death.
The act of saving someone isn't the crime. Doing it without their consent is what makes it evil.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby zilfallon » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:03 pm

I think something about "incapacitated" status is unclear.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F122.jpg says that "She will croak, unless she is healed before JETSTONE ENDS THEIR TURN." At this chapter, Wanda was incapacitated in Jetstone's turn, NOT in GK's turn. So story about Jack here might be different, since he got incapacitated on their OWN turn.
Maybe if you are incapacitated on your enemies turn, you'll die if no one heals you before THEY end the turn, however if you are down on your OWN turn, you'll just recover when YOUR SIDE ends turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Lamech » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:22 pm

Maybe if you are incapacitated on your enemies turn, you'll die if no one heals you before THEY end the turn, however if you are down on your OWN turn, you'll just recover when YOUR SIDE ends turn.

The ending of Jetstone's turn was multiple things: The ending of a turn, the ending of the last turn before GK's turn, the coming of night, the ending of an enemy turn and finally the ending of of Jetstone's turn (or one of those in the alliance). Therefore, in theory anyone of those things could be what causes a unit to croak. The most obvious and likely is IMO the ending of a turn. Night is another possiblity. I suppose it could also be the ending of an enemy turn or the ending of the last turn before yours. The croaking even being the result of one specific side ending their turn would be wierd, and IMO extremely unlikely.

Pretty much all of those mean Jack still dies. Now Jack might survive through the enemies turn, but he won't survive till dawn. He is healed at dawn and all of those things will trigger before then. Well... except the end of unaroyals turn, they no longer have one. But I think the trigger being Unaroyal's turn would be exceeding wierd, and unlikely. Therefore it seems almost certain Jack will die if not healed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:56 pm

zilfallon wrote:I think something about "incapacitated" status is unclear.

Incapacitated might not be a single state. It may cover a number of states, including:
Passed Out Drunk
Unconscious from non-fatal pain / injury
Dying of severe trauma

Wanda was in the 'Dying' state, whereas Jack might just be unconscious.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby theseus2x » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:20 pm

zilfallon wrote:I think something about "incapacitated" status is unclear.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F122.jpg says that "She will croak, unless she is healed before JETSTONE ENDS THEIR TURN." At this chapter, Wanda was incapacitated in Jetstone's turn, NOT in GK's turn. So story about Jack here might be different, since he got incapacitated on their OWN turn.
Maybe if you are incapacitated on your enemies turn, you'll die if no one heals you before THEY end the turn, however if you are down on your OWN turn, you'll just recover when YOUR SIDE ends turn.


Pretty sure normal healing takes place at the start of YOUR next turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:22 pm

theseus2x wrote:Pretty sure normal healing takes place at the start of YOUR next turn.


The evidence we've seen is "healing occurs at dawn," thus simultaneously for everyone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Angband » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:34 pm

Lamech wrote:The ending of Jetstone's turn was multiple things: The ending of a turn, the ending of the last turn before GK's turn, the coming of night, the ending of an enemy turn and finally the ending of of Jetstone's turn (or one of those in the alliance). Therefore, in theory anyone of those things could be what causes a unit to croak. The most obvious and likely is IMO the ending of a turn. Night is another possiblity. I suppose it could also be the ending of an enemy turn or the ending of the last turn before yours. The croaking even being the result of one specific side ending their turn would be wierd, and IMO extremely unlikely.

Pretty much all of those mean Jack still dies. Now Jack might survive through the enemies turn, but he won't survive till dawn. He is healed at dawn and all of those things will trigger before then. Well... except the end of unaroyals turn, they no longer have one. But I think the trigger being Unaroyal's turn would be exceeding wierd, and unlikely. Therefore it seems almost certain Jack will die if not healed.


I agree that Jack needs healing or he will die at some point between Page 11 and the full heal at the start of GK's next turn. But we also see in Book 2 Page 10 that Jack's dragon has had a bandage applied to its flank, and two GK units are attending to Jack. It is not unreasonable that there may be some way to do "natural healomancy" that we haven't had directly confirmed, which could be what bandaging a wounded or incapacitated unit does. This could mean that the wounded unit won't be up and in fighting form again (until their wounds are healed at the start of next turn), but they also won't die either.

Maggie did say Wanda would die unless healed before end of turn, not that she would die unless she received a healomancy spell before end of turn.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:18 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:The evidence we've seen is "healing occurs at dawn," thus simultaneously for everyone.

Wounded units completely heal prior to starting next turn (dawn for us, start of turn for enemy)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby fehler » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:02 pm

Ok, now I see the "caster" figurine, wearing a hood and carrying a staff w/ a ball on the end. I still want to know what's up with the color scheme, though.

And it's hard to determine what "incapacitated" means on your own turn. Our last example happened during Jetstone's turn (Wanda). Could be differing mechanics applied.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Sixty » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

I think a lot of speculation on being "incapacitated" is starting to run wild.

We have seen no evidence that it means anything other then "critical damage that will be lethal to the unit unless healed". While asking whether it's at the end of turn/enemy's turn/day might be valid questions we have yet to learn, the point is unless they plan to dwagon express Jack back (assuming that is even possible) he needs to be healed or decrypted (or just left to die, but obviously they're not gonna do that). We have no evidence or hints that there are a myriad of different levels of being incapacitated and the fact that Caesar was as heavily wounded as he was during that summer update without being incapacitated would indicate that it isn't used for minor wounds and if one is incapacitated there is a strong chance it is as bad as it was for Wanda during book 1.

While they will probably want Jack around for whatever action they take this turn, I don't think that was the only reason healomancy vs decryption was being discussed (as I doubt he was going to heal at the beginning of the next turn).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Trotsky » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:41 pm

teratorn wrote:
SteveMB wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Could it be, that elves can't be decrypted. If we don't see a Altruist or Lofty elves now, there aren't any.

Or it could be that their position got a particularly heavy hit from the eruption, leaving them too badly roasted (like Bogroll).


I suppose they could have been where the lava lake is by now. The "natural" allies thing probably doesn't matter, for marbits can be uncroaked and as such probably decrypted also. Either they all fell on the lava lake or it's possible that elves can't be uncroaked/decrypted. A race that can't be decrypted would make a good foe for GK.


I thought all of the Marbits were part of the of the tunnel attack and, therfore, part of the mass uncroaking. I find it likely, though we have not had direct evidence, that creatures that have been uncroaked cannot be decrypted. As to why there are no elves, that I cannot answer, though I can't recall having seen any decrypted spidews either, so they might just be somewhere else.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:47 pm

MarbitChow wrote:All procedures on Earth are done WITH CONSENT, either from the patient or from someone in position to grant it.


Agreed, so much so that in the very same post you were answering to->

BLANDCorporatio wrote:You could say, because the patient consented to the operation, but sometimes the patient is brought in a state where they can't express consent. This is then deferred to living wills (new, rare), relatives and loved ones, or indeed for life-threatening emergencies a procedure is just carried out because it's the right thing to do.


In this case, Wanda is asking for consent from Stanley and (maybe) Parson, seeing as how Jack is "incapacitated", whatever that means.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby mastigo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:27 pm

You know, this is just a thought, but what if part of the reason Wanda is so screwy is that she never actually FULLY recovered from the backlash of her attempts at thinkamancy and then she was exposed to a linkup.

Also, take a look back at the bottom half of page 147 and tell me that is an evil person.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:32 pm

That is an evil person who'd stab you in the guts if she thinks Fate calls for it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby mastigo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:36 pm

I more meant How she seems pretty damn unhappy about the whole thing, look at her expression on the last panel of the third line and what she say on the first panel of the last line.

Plus there was the whole part about her understanding that while parson won the battle, he still "lost" in that he had to kill everyone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:37 pm

So she'll stab you with crocodile tears in her eyes, just like she did Faq. And probably more, because she comments that Parson is an amateur at the mass slaughter game.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby mastigo » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:40 pm

She kinda didn't expect stanely to WIN. She was expecting him to die and leave her the hammer to attune to. Addmittedly still a backstab, but one that would improved her side. Life is cheap in erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:45 pm

mastigo wrote:She kinda didn't expect stanely to WIN. She was expecting him to die and leave her the hammer to attune to. Addmittedly still a backstab, but one that would improved her side. Life is cheap in erfworld.


Ain't that the truth. Units get casually disbanded when a city is captured, or become sitting ducks in the capital waiting to be killed off one by one should the leader die without an heir let alone the fact that field units will just disappear in that case (remember that bit of info from Book 1?).

Janis is right that something's wrong with Erfworld, but it ain't the perpetual war. You simply can't be evil in this world God dammit!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 11

Postby Jjkaybomb » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:47 pm

Evil and not evil are by far way to harsh of terms for the morally ambigious erfworld.
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